38 minutes ago, Chook said:

You mean like generations of innocent football fans unlucky enough to have been goaded, forced or otherwise cajoled into following the Demons?

Yes, including us poor Demonlanders. 

1 hour ago, Maldonboy38 said:

Absolutely agree. Can you imagine how Grimes would turn out if we recruited him now? The saddest thing about being a Dees supporter over the past 40+ years is the amount of good footballers and good people we havd burnt. 

 

Don't agree with this. Jack lacked elite talent in the context of the modern game. Great leader, great person, bad kick, slowish, poor decision maker, and as someone rightly mentioned the combination of this had a compounding effect, where Jack being slowish brought more pressure on his kicking and decision making (and options) in open play.

I was criticised over the past 4 or 5 years over at 'ology for being critical of Jack, the player, but I've maintained all through that period that we wouldn't play finals with Grimes in the team. He lacked an elite attribute physiologically. I don't think he'd excel if he came into the team as an 18 yo now, moreover, if he was at Geelong and Hawthorn during their golden eras, he wouldn't have played 100 games. Our most exciting talent either has power, skill or both. Think Hunt, Petracca, Oliver (wow) these guys all have elite attributes. Hunt ridiculous speed, Petracca power and x factor and Oliver with best hands at the club.

Put Jack Grimes' brain, passion and approach into Colin Sylvia's head. You'd have a player there!

54 minutes ago, David Williamson said:

Don't agree with this. Jack lacked elite talent in the context of the modern game. Great leader, great person, bad kick, slowish, poor decision maker, and as someone rightly mentioned the combination of this had a compounding effect, where Jack being slowish brought more pressure on his kicking and decision making (and options) in open play.

I was criticised over the past 4 or 5 years over at 'ology for being critical of Jack, the player, but I've maintained all through that period that we wouldn't play finals with Grimes in the team. He lacked an elite attribute physiologically. I don't think he'd excel if he came into the team as an 18 yo now, moreover, if he was at Geelong and Hawthorn during their golden eras, he wouldn't have played 100 games. Our most exciting talent either has power, skill or both. Think Hunt, Petracca, Oliver (wow) these guys all have elite attributes. Hunt ridiculous speed, Petracca power and x factor and Oliver with best hands at the club.

Put Jack Grimes' brain, passion and approach into Colin Sylvia's head. You'd have a player there!

Decision making is an interesting one when it comes to player development.  It's interesting see how much time, energy and effort is now being put into educating the  players about our style and gameplan.  The way they are drilled about appropriate actions, patterns and choices makes this decision making become a mixture of instinct and muscle memory.  It is of course purely hypothetical, but can a player with questionable decision making succeed in an environment that drills the right decisions into the from the moment they enter the system?? 

It could be argued that's how Hawthorn has made so many average players on their list successful 'roleplayers'.

Have a look at the photos of Grimes in the sequence in this thread. He had an underdeveloped physical body. Have a look at his calves, for example. While I'm no expert in physical development, I would say we failed to develop his body properly for the demands of 21st century AFL football. If he'd been better developed, perhaps his skills may have improved. 

  

2 hours ago, David Williamson said:

Don't agree with this. Jack lacked elite talent in the context of the modern game. Great leader, great person, bad kick, slowish, poor decision maker, and as someone rightly mentioned the combination of this had a compounding effect, where Jack being slowish brought more pressure on his kicking and decision making (and options) in open play.

I was criticised over the past 4 or 5 years over at 'ology for being critical of Jack, the player, but I've maintained all through that period that we wouldn't play finals with Grimes in the team. He lacked an elite attribute physiologically. I don't think he'd excel if he came into the team as an 18 yo now, moreover, if he was at Geelong and Hawthorn during their golden eras, he wouldn't have played 100 games. Our most exciting talent either has power, skill or both. Think Hunt, Petracca, Oliver (wow) these guys all have elite attributes. Hunt ridiculous speed, Petracca power and x factor and Oliver with best hands at the club.

Put Jack Grimes' brain, passion and approach into Colin Sylvia's head. You'd have a player there!

Well we will have to disagree. Have a look at how the weak-bodied, tackling softy, mentally weak Jack Watts was under Neeld and is now after proper development. Yes,  they are different footballers, but Grimes' deficiencies would have been much mitigated with good development and coaching. 

4 hours ago, David Williamson said:

Don't agree with this. Jack lacked elite talent in the context of the modern game. Great leader, great person, bad kick, slowish, poor decision maker, and as someone rightly mentioned the combination of this had a compounding effect, where Jack being slowish brought more pressure on his kicking and decision making (and options) in open play.

I was criticised over the past 4 or 5 years over at 'ology for being critical of Jack, the player, but I've maintained all through that period that we wouldn't play finals with Grimes in the team. He lacked an elite attribute physiologically. I don't think he'd excel if he came into the team as an 18 yo now, moreover, if he was at Geelong and Hawthorn during their golden eras, he wouldn't have played 100 games. Our most exciting talent either has power, skill or both. Think Hunt, Petracca, Oliver (wow) these guys all have elite attributes. Hunt ridiculous speed, Petracca power and x factor and Oliver with best hands at the club.

Put Jack Grimes' brain, passion and approach into Colin Sylvia's head. You'd have a player there!

 

Depends on your definition of elite but Grimes did have very good endurance. Endurance, work ethic and above average reading of the play were his strengths. If he was coming through the system again I'd see him somewhere like a Billy Stretch or ANB.

Stretch looks like making it because he's got the physical traits of above average endurance and speed and is very neat with his disposal on wing. ANB isn't quite as quick and is messier with the ball, much like Grimes he's had a few injuries as well, but not nearly as much as Grimes had as a young player.

If Grimes was trained in efficient kicking action and decision making from a young age and avoided the injuries he might've got to a level where he was a consistent AFL player. He certainly showed he could find the ball as a young player before regressing as the competition evolved and his decision making and disposal didn't hold up. 

I think his comments show he knew he wasn't up to it any longer But in some ways that makes him even more of a fantastic guy to own that fact and not resent the club.

On 13/01/2017 at 0:39 PM, Chook said:

You mean like generations of innocent football fans unlucky enough to have been goaded, forced or otherwise cajoled into following the Demons?

I have been following the dees since 1987, in that time the team has played in 12 final series 2 GF so it's not been all that bad,  but the last 10 years  have been lean.if it's that bad for u to follow my team put yourself out of torment and support the hawks

5 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

I have been following the dees since 1987, in that time the team has played in 12 final series 2 GF so it's not been all that bad,  but the last 10 years  have been lean.if it's that bad for u to follow my team put yourself out of torment and support the hawks

.....Who I hope have 10 lean years ahead of them....  would love to the the brown and yellow bandwagon tip over in the doggy do.

Grimes goes with my thanks and best wishes: for what he gave the club, and also for making the space for us to evolve beyond him.  Our next level to make finals is a significant step up from where Jack was at.

I wonder....if we knew H was going, would he have been given one more year at Casey?

2 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

I have been following the dees since 1987, in that time the team has played in 12 final series 2 GF so it's not been all that bad,  but the last 10 years  have been lean.if it's that bad for u to follow my team put yourself out of torment and support the hawks

I can't. That's the whole point. For better or worse, I'm stuck here.

23 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Depends on your definition of elite but Grimes did have very good endurance. Endurance, work ethic and above average reading of the play were his strengths. If he was coming through the system again I'd see him somewhere like a Billy Stretch or ANB.

Stretch looks like making it because he's got the physical traits of above average endurance and speed and is very neat with his disposal on wing. ANB isn't quite as quick and is messier with the ball, much like Grimes he's had a few injuries as well, but not nearly as much as Grimes had as a young player.

If Grimes was trained in efficient kicking action and decision making from a young age and avoided the injuries he might've got to a level where he was a consistent AFL player. He certainly showed he could find the ball as a young player before regressing as the competition evolved and his decision making and disposal didn't hold up. 

I think his comments show he knew he wasn't up to it any longer But in some ways that makes him even more of a fantastic guy to own that fact and not resent the club.

I don't think jack was slow he just did not play with speed, to be a good to great player speed is not the key, urgency is the key, as Kennedy use to say don't think don't hope just do. 

Great article written by Jack himself.

http://www.aflplayers.com.au/article/excitement-awaits-the-next-chapter-grimes/