3 minutes ago, Hampton 22 said:

This is why I read Demonland (apart from for the occasional choice bits of Dees news). Very witty. 

That is why I love alcohol. I normally can't brain, but if I'm over the limit, anything is possible.

 

But really, it's such an obvious choice. Not sure if there can be any debate about it.

Edited August 22, 20168 yr by faultydet

Like everyone else, I love Jacky. But he won't be captain. I doubt that he'd even want the job.

I think there's a lot more to being captain than what a player is capable of bringing to gameday. There appears to be a significant burden placed on captains to represent their clubs in the media, at sponsor and coterie functions and in setting training standards, etc. As I only get to see what is happening on gameday and in some media interviews, I'm not qualified to know who would be best suited to all those duties.

But, some things are apparent. Jack Watts is now one of the most senior players yet isn't in the leadership group. That's either because he doesn't want to be or others don't think that he is suited to it.

Jack Viney has some qualities but has on-field deficiencies he needs to work on. (Kicking on his right foot would be a good start). He is also a passionate but not necessarily articulate media performer. That might be because of his age or maybe he just isn't particularly suited to it (I'm trying to find a polite way of saying maybe he's not that bright...although I hope I'm wrong in that regard.)

In short I suspect Watts and Viney are not necessarily the best choices for captain. Maybe given our history with Grimes and Trengove, perhaps we should try using an ace rather than four Jacks.

 

Hey guys, I wrote this over on the trade board but thought it was more relevant here, about intelligent leaders.

 

If we're looking for an A grade Elite player. Then we should be looking for an elite leader. What this means is a very intelligent human being, Aside from outliers, one thing i've noticed about the best AFL players is that they're very intelligent people. We need to bring in intelligence. As we are a young squad, it is one of our traits that we need to develop. We do have leaders of course, but they are inexperienced. Jones is our most intelligent bloke if you've heard him speak, but he is of course getting older and his physical attributes are beginning to wain and matched with his finals inexperience, it means we're lacking. Watts has that ability, but i suspect he does not have the kind of extroverted and domineering presence enough to get the team up. Maybe that will change as he stamps his mark on more contests in the clinch.

I would personally like Jack Watts to come out show more of a personality outside of the game. I'd like to hear him give his take on tv shows and to give us more analysis of the club and our games to the fans on the website. More presence, and thus more feedback. 'On the Couch' would be a good step in the right direction.

 

If anyone saw Dangerfield speaking on Talking Footy, you could see how intelligent he is. He's basically more perceptive and intelligent than the 40-50 year old blokes sitting around him. It's a hallmark of the best players of the competition. They are all quick thinking, they assess multiple options instantaneously and generally choose the right option. They're people that can sit on a tv show and provide 20 minutes of thought provoking analysis, Sam Mitchell and Luke Hodge are other examples. That is what you want on the football field.

 

If you think Viney is a shoe in for captain then I think you need to listen to him speak and re-assess whether you want him as THE central leader of the club. No offence to him, but he's not the intelligent elite captain that will take us to a premiership. He's a bull with flair that will no doubt develop his attributes, but he's got a long way to go before he has the right kind of leadership on the field to change the flow of a game with sharp and fast lateral adaptable thinking.

I don't know who to recruit, But I think we should look at another mature player with leadership qualities. Jones needs AT LEAST a year longer as captain before TWO trade and draft periods have finished and we can  assess where all of our players are at.

Edited August 23, 20168 yr by johndemons

I understand from someone who knows that, for all his footy talent, aggression, determination and love for the club, Viney is no Einstein. No criticism, just that's who he is. 

When you think of the captains at successful clubs is intelligence an obvious attribute in those guys? I would say yes.

Could he?.......................he could

Should he?.....................he shouldn't

Will he?..........................he won't

FOR 2017 I WOULD BE HAPPY WITH

JONES CAPT

VINEY VC

GAWN DVC

WATTS DVC 

Happy if the VCs and DVC's as selected were swapped around!

Watts is not a conventional leader and I really don't think it would matter that much to him if the title was used to help another player grow.

I think Watts holds respect in AFL circles these days but he has worked hard to get there and shows leadership when it counts.

Titles are irrelevant in good sporting teams who recognise the hierarchy anyway.

I put Jack ,Neville,Max, and JV down as spiritual leaders.

They lead us out of biblical on-field hopelessness.

Watts and his peers have shown exemplary inner strength and loyalty.

If Viney was to become Captain (which I believe will happen) then Gawn should be his Vice.

Both dead serious on game day but on the off days, Gawny would be so good at being the yang to Vineys yin.

I was in the sand today watching a look alike Nat take a wicked right hander and out the back yelling madly was Jack V and my cigar smoke ran circles through my mind and a young fella sidled up to me and it was Wattsy hey old wolf he said what does the bossdog need to know and I thought back to those BGS days when Francis Jackson was coach and they had Xavier by the balls ev3en with Luke Ball dominating then Teddy Richards went into the ruck for the last quarter and he creamed them and I said to Wattsy listen mate as leader you have to never let go you have to understand the game and the oppositions psyche and its not you Jacky and its not Viney and Nat has been wonderful in trying times byt mate hes coming and hes comin and Todd Viney writhed on the barroom floor and his name was .....Fyffe... believe me... it was Fyffe..

3 minutes ago, grey wolf said:

I was in the sand today watching a look alike Nat take a wicked right hander and out the back yelling madly was Jack V and my cigar smoke ran circles through my mind and a young fella sidled up to me and it was Wattsy hey old wolf he said what does the bossdog need to know and I thought back to those BGS days when Francis Jackson was coach and they had Xavier by the balls ev3en with Luke Ball dominating then Teddy Richards went into the ruck for the last quarter and he creamed them and I said to Wattsy listen mate as leader you have to never let go you have to understand the game and the oppositions psyche and its not you Jacky and its not Viney and Nat has been wonderful in trying times byt mate hes coming and hes comin and Todd Viney writhed on the barroom floor and his name was .....Fyffe... believe me... it was Fyffe..

Are you on bath salts?

1 hour ago, grey wolf said:

I was in the sand today watching a look alike Nat take a wicked right hander and out the back yelling madly was Jack V and my cigar smoke ran circles through my mind and a young fella sidled up to me and it was Wattsy hey old wolf he said what does the bossdog need to know and I thought back to those BGS days when Francis Jackson was coach and they had Xavier by the balls ev3en with Luke Ball dominating then Teddy Richards went into the ruck for the last quarter and he creamed them and I said to Wattsy listen mate as leader you have to never let go you have to understand the game and the oppositions psyche and its not you Jacky and its not Viney and Nat has been wonderful in trying times byt mate hes coming and hes comin and Todd Viney writhed on the barroom floor and his name was .....Fyffe... believe me... it was Fyffe..

Stay were you are grey lupo, a padded ambulance will be there shortly.

1 hour ago, grey wolf said:

I was in the sand today watching a look alike Nat take a wicked right hander and out the back yelling madly was Jack V and my cigar smoke ran circles through my mind and a young fella sidled up to me and it was Wattsy hey old wolf he said what does the bossdog need to know and I thought back to those BGS days when Francis Jackson was coach and they had Xavier by the balls ev3en with Luke Ball dominating then Teddy Richards went into the ruck for the last quarter and he creamed them and I said to Wattsy listen mate as leader you have to never let go you have to understand the game and the oppositions psyche and its not you Jacky and its not Viney and Nat has been wonderful in trying times byt mate hes coming and hes comin and Todd Viney writhed on the barroom floor and his name was .....Fyffe... believe me... it was Fyffe..

1 hour ago, grey wolf said:

I was in the sand today watching a look alike Nat take a wicked right hander and out the back yelling madly was Jack V and my cigar smoke ran circles through my mind and a young fella sidled up to me and it was Wattsy hey old wolf he said what does the bossdog need to know and I thought back to those BGS days when Francis Jackson was coach and they had Xavier by the balls ev3en with Luke Ball dominating then Teddy Richards went into the ruck for the last quarter and he creamed them and I said to Wattsy listen mate as leader you have to never let go you have to understand the game and the oppositions psyche and its not you Jacky and its not Viney and Nat has been wonderful in trying times byt mate hes coming and hes comin and Todd Viney writhed on the barroom floor and his name was .....Fyffe... believe me... it was Fyffe..

dat u enyaw?

3 hours ago, grey wolf said:

I was in the sand today watching a look alike Nat take a wicked right hander and out the back yelling madly was Jack V and my cigar smoke ran circles through my mind and a young fella sidled up to me and it was Wattsy hey old wolf he said what does the bossdog need to know and I thought back to those BGS days when Francis Jackson was coach and they had Xavier by the balls ev3en with Luke Ball dominating then Teddy Richards went into the ruck for the last quarter and he creamed them and I said to Wattsy listen mate as leader you have to never let go you have to understand the game and the oppositions psyche and its not you Jacky and its not Viney and Nat has been wonderful in trying times byt mate hes coming and hes comin and Todd Viney writhed on the barroom floor and his name was .....Fyffe... believe me... it was Fyffe..

As obscure as this is, it's one of my all time favourite posts.

If his form continues to improve like this year, I hope he will captain in 2 years. Viney is  too young. The 2 co captain Jacks; Grimes and Trenners were way too young to captain.

JV hopefully will take the mantle after Watts.

That's a lot of captain Jacks.

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 20168 yr by leave it to deever
insert

14 hours ago, Biffen said:

Watts is not a conventional leader and I really don't think it would matter that much to him if the title was used to help another player grow.

I think Watts holds respect in AFL circles these days but he has worked hard to get there and shows leadership when it counts.

Titles are irrelevant in good sporting teams who recognise the hierarchy anyway.

I put Jack ,Neville,Max, and JV down as spiritual leaders.

They lead us out of biblical on-field hopelessness.

Watts and his peers have shown exemplary inner strength and loyalty.

Go forth and goal my children. 

May your enemies armpits be blessed with the fleas of a thousand camels.

My ideal captains have a tough physical edge with a bit of nastiness.  See Voss, Carey, Whitten, Matthews, Hodge, Selwood, etc. 

Viney will be the next captain.

I also like Brayshaw's future credentials.  No nastiness there, but I think he'll have respect and I like the way he goes about his footy.

16 hours ago, demondame said:

I understand from someone who knows that, for all his footy talent, aggression, determination and love for the club, Viney is no Einstein. No criticism, just that's who he is. 

When you think of the captains at successful clubs is intelligence an obvious attribute in those guys? I would say yes.

When he first got to the club he was smart enough to know that the culture was putrid and that the list made up of Nancy boys.

I'll take those street smarts over any other kind.

16 hours ago, demondame said:

I understand from someone who knows that, for all his footy talent, aggression, determination and love for the club, Viney is no Einstein. No criticism, just that's who he is. 

When you think of the captains at successful clubs is intelligence an obvious attribute in those guys? I would say yes.

So no Einstein, I want him to captain the footy team not work for the CSIRO, you will find most captains are now  thoroughly schooled in how to appear in public/media etc, if you watched Talking Footy Dangerfield said he rehearsed answers to the media before he was interviewed   anybody can look intelligent  you only have to look at politicians    besides which I have spoken to Jack many times and you are WRONG

Captain is one thing leadership group is another. Nathan or whoever it is in the future cannot do it alone. A mix of bull, strategist, intellect, rat cunning, aggression and maturity does not and will not exist in just one individual straight away . This is why leading teams aspire to have leadership groups. Leaders grow and Roos today has said how much Nathan has grown in the role. Our group is very young and we need continuity in the leadership group as they grow and Roos has stated his on field team do a lot of the coaching. 

Viney a lock for sure.

In coming years I'd have
C: Viney  VC: Watts
Others: Gawn Tyson T-mac

Good core of leadership in the middle.
 

2 hours ago, armstrong35 said:

Viney a lock for sure.

In coming years I'd have
C: Viney  VC: Watts
Others: Gawn Tyson T-mac

Good core of leadership in the middle.
 

No. Just no. Watts should simply concentrate on becoming a consistent contributor and putting seasons back to back now.

He might be considered a leader around the club, but I wouldn't have him in my leadership team.

Focus on footy, Jack.

On 8/23/2016 at 7:38 PM, grey wolf said:

I was in the sand today watching a look alike Nat take a wicked right hander and out the back yelling madly was Jack V and my cigar smoke ran circles through my mind and a young fella sidled up to me and it was Wattsy hey old wolf he said what does the bossdog need to know and I thought back to those BGS days when Francis Jackson was coach and they had Xavier by the balls ev3en with Luke Ball dominating then Teddy Richards went into the ruck for the last quarter and he creamed them and I said to Wattsy listen mate as leader you have to never let go you have to understand the game and the oppositions psyche and its not you Jacky and its not Viney and Nat has been wonderful in trying times byt mate hes coming and hes comin and Todd Viney writhed on the barroom floor and his name was .....Fyffe... believe me... it was Fyffe..

It's like ENYAW after elocution lessons!