I seriously doubt even Richmond would be stupid enough to take a second rounder and a bunch of blunt steak knives for Alex Rance

34 minutes ago, nutbean said:

Seriously ? Football is a team sport. You have little understanding of football clubs and good culture if you think that is acceptable. I understand that clubs stagger returns to preseasons based on age and appropriate player loads but if you are trying to build a culture of "team first", the notion that a player can take a longer holiday because he plays well is contrary to good culture building. Rance is in the leadership group  - you want your leadership group setting some sort of example - first on the track and last off. 

I'll pose the question - where do you draw the line ? Dusty as you said has been great too - lets let him come back late as well. Jake Lloyd has been one of their better performing players  - maybe a week later for him ? Vickery on the other hand - make him come back 2 weeks early ? Once you make exceptions for players based on anything other than age and health, you are on a slippery slope. 

Ever heard of the phrase "train smarter not harder"?  Of course there's a line, but it's not like Rance was down at the pub every day while his teammates were training, it's pretty obvious he was keeping himself in shape.  You wouldn't even be hearing about this if Richmond were in finals contention...I'll bet you the Hawks have a few exceptions for some of their players too and I'll bet that it's not purely based on age and health.  How often do they make exceptions for Cyril? Of course the leadership group must set an example but it's not necessarily first on, last off...that's like saying the bloke who stays back at work the latest (probably just to impress his boss) must be the hardest worker and best performer.

12 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

If we can get Rance id be thrilled, we have an army of cusp players like ANB, Newton, Michie, Dawes, Dunn, Garland, Grimes that all fit the bill for Richmond they need compeditors to aid their stars, given we expect them to do a full overhaul of their list take the chance to help with that. We would need to give maybe 2 or 3 of those players and a pick or 2 

51 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Over the next 5 seasons he'll be 27, 28, 29, 30, 31 - he's got at least 5 years left, most of them still in his prime.

Hmm. What would you pay for him? Salary cap aside.

Just now, stuie said:

hahahahaha yeah thats what richmond has been like for years why not take advantage 

1 minute ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

Hmm. What would you pay for him? Salary cap aside.

I think he'll be too expensive, both trade-wise and $s.  He's a great player but I'd pass.

11 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I think he'll be too expensive, both trade-wise and $s.  He's a great player but I'd pass.

Agreed.

1 minute ago, Glenn Molloy said:

Ever heard of the phrase "train smarter not harder"?  Of course there's a line, but it's not like Rance was down at the pub every day while his teammates were training, it's pretty obvious he was keeping himself in shape.  You wouldn't even be hearing about this if Richmond were in finals contention...I'll bet you the Hawks have a few exceptions for some of their players too and I'll bet that it's not purely based on age and health.  How often do they make exceptions for Cyril? Of course the leadership group must set an example but it's not necessarily first on, last off...that's like saying the bloke who stays back at work the latest (probably just to impress his boss) must be the hardest worker and best performer.

They make exceptions for Cyril because he is so susceptible to soft tissue injuries. And preseason is about both - harder and smarter. The older players come back later than and they don't push the first years and second years as hard. And they allow some of players ( like Hogan ) to go back to WA mid season to visit family and he may miss one training session - but this is mental health - make sure he doesn't get too homesick. 

And being first on last off is not to impress the boss - but talk to the Carlton folk about Judd when he got to the club - he set the standard in training. You want your leadership group setting the bar high. Take for example Chris Dawes - when he was injured he apparently was working with Weideman and Hulett on body position and leading patterns - setting the example  - and he is not even in the leadership group.

There is rumblings from the Gold coast as well on the special  treatment of Ablett and the poor standard he has set and they are having their issues. Making training exceptions purely based on one's abilities just doesn't work.   

My girlfriend is a mad Richmond supporter, so i have seen most of their games this year & i can't see him leaving.

E.g. The win over Sydney Rance ran back to the goal square and double fist pumped and dropped to his knees in front of the cheer squad (10 minutes after the final siren) & kept this sort of celebration up for 30 seconds. He visibly, to me, loves the club and i can't see him leaving. If he did he is exactly what we need.

Go Dees

Rance won't leave Richmond, he's just signed a long term deal, no doubt he's frustrated by how they're going but he aint going anywhere.

1 hour ago, nutbean said:

They make exceptions for Cyril because he is so susceptible to soft tissue injuries. And preseason is about both - harder and smarter. The older players come back later than and they don't push the first years and second years as hard. And they allow some of players ( like Hogan ) to go back to WA mid season to visit family and he may miss one training session - but this is mental health - make sure he doesn't get too homesick. 

And being first on last off is not to impress the boss - but talk to the Carlton folk about Judd when he got to the club - he set the standard in training. You want your leadership group setting the bar high. Take for example Chris Dawes - when he was injured he apparently was working with Weideman and Hulett on body position and leading patterns - setting the example  - and he is not even in the leadership group.

There is rumblings from the Gold coast as well on the special  treatment of Ablett and the poor standard he has set and they are having their issues. Making training exceptions purely based on one's abilities just doesn't work.   

You're completely mixing up "special treatment" with "setting standards", and drawing a very long bow to suggest that Ablett is the reason why Gold Coast are struggling.  Try the fact that their first choice midfield hasn't played each year.   Who said Rance wasn't setting good standards?  I'm sure he's outstanding at training.  That doesn't mean that he has to do every session.  Heaps of players have special circumstances which clubs need to accommodate, whether that be physical health, mental health, personal beliefs, or special interests.  No different with Rance.   Put it this way, if I was a Richmond player, the last thing I'd be complaining about would be the fact that Alex Rance had an extra couple of weeks holiday prior to pre-season.  How has it impacted their season?  Not one iota, he's performing superbly.  They've got much bigger issues than that.  

3 hours ago, Glenn Molloy said:

Ever heard of the phrase "train smarter not harder"?  Of course there's a line, but it's not like Rance was down at the pub every day while his teammates were training, it's pretty obvious he was keeping himself in shape.  You wouldn't even be hearing about this if Richmond were in finals contention...I'll bet you the Hawks have a few exceptions for some of their players too and I'll bet that it's not purely based on age and health.  How often do they make exceptions for Cyril? Of course the leadership group must set an example but it's not necessarily first on, last off...that's like saying the bloke who stays back at work the latest (probably just to impress his boss) must be the hardest worker and best performer.

There are a range of cultural sensitivities when it comes to managing indigenous players. Using Cyril is a poor comparison to Rance. 

For what its worth, I listen to the AFL podcast which Rance is on. He has almost weekly pumped up the tyres of our club, the direction we are heading and the list of young quality players we have assembled. Now Im not saying that I think he would leave , however losses like they had on thwe weekend wont help and if he did choose to leave I think he would be easilt enticed to join us.

For what its worth I think TMac will leave and we will get both Hurley & Hibbard. 

6 hours ago, jackaub said:

To me Rance is a 'prima donna'---  I think we already have our fair share of these

 

Agreed jackaub, let the rancid one go elsewhere.  We're on the right path sniffing out Hurley.

Hurley, Rance and OMeara to Melbourne, do some of you know that 17 other clubs exist?

Edited August 1, 20169 yr by johndemons

7 hours ago, stuie said:

Jon Ralph (who has connections with Richmond), mentioned this morning on SEN that there's starting to be some whispers about Alex Rance possibly wanting a trade. Said it would be a small chance of happening, but even so, if you're Josh Mahoney you're on the phone today to his manager surely.

How could we get him? I'm thinking next year's first rounder and maybe someone like ANB? Richmond need some young talent desperately. The other more controversial option of course is IF Hogan has told the club he wants a trade at the end of his contract then we ship him off to Freo for pick 3 and a player and then use that pick 3 to get Rance.

Thoughts?

 

Just because you asked for thoughts.

First Rance will stay a Tiger.

BUT, if he was gettable and if the Tigers agreed to take our first pick next year and ANB, I would pay for a limo to pick him up from Punt Road, dinner for he and his partner, a weekend away for both of them and still be laughing at the end of it, as it would be one of the biggest steals of all time.

Should I book the limo, dinner and holiday now or wait for trade week?

We don't want a bloody saint at the demons.

1 hour ago, DV8 said:

 

Agreed jackaub, let the rancid one go elsewhere.  We're on the right path sniffing out Hurley.

Are we sniffing out Hurley though?

2 hours ago, Glenn Molloy said:

You're completely mixing up "special treatment" with "setting standards", and drawing a very long bow to suggest that Ablett is the reason why Gold Coast are struggling.  Try the fact that their first choice midfield hasn't played each year.   Who said Rance wasn't setting good standards?  I'm sure he's outstanding at training.  That doesn't mean that he has to do every session.  Heaps of players have special circumstances which clubs need to accommodate, whether that be physical health, mental health, personal beliefs, or special interests.  No different with Rance.   Put it this way, if I was a Richmond player, the last thing I'd be complaining about would be the fact that Alex Rance had an extra couple of weeks holiday prior to pre-season.  How has it impacted their season?  Not one iota, he's performing superbly.  They've got much bigger issues than that.  

I  am not mixing up anything - I was picking up on Lucifers Hero's comment " Also, It was mentioned that his teammates are upset because he negotiated extended holiday period and would have a later start to the preseason" - Negotiating extended holiday period ??? spare me - that is special treatment and something that doesnt sit well. I fully understand why other players may be peeved if that is the case. Secondly I did not suggest that Ablett's treatment is the reason the GC is struggling but it has been reported on the football shows that it has been causing some irritation.

Of course they have larger issues than this but thirdly and most importantly - you mentioned how it impacted his season. Earlier you mentioned Dustin Martin as well. I have never once mentioned how it impacted Rances performance - it is how the affects the "team". Nathan Jones is such a superbly tuned  athlete why not give him half the preseason off ? it would not make the slightest bit of difference to him. I never said  Rance wasn't setting good standards but if a player came to me and said he wanted to a negotiate an extended break unless it was for some special circumstances then the answer is you put in the hard yards like everyone else.

To me you are throwing "special circumstances" into the mix - when H took his time off as he was struggling with issues everyone was supportive. When Liam Jurrah left to go home due to family reasons everyone was supportive. When Hogan goes home for a few weekends a year since he is homesick everyone was supportive ( except the crazies on Demonland who think it was to tee up his contract with Freo). When there are special circumstances noone bats an eyelid. But if as Lucifer said - players are unhappy with his negotiated extra holiday - what does that tell you ?

Unless no one is unhappy and its a load of nonsense....then.. what we are arguing about ? 

Rance would be a better pickup than Hurley, he is the best defender in the league. Would cost us something crazy though, as he is contracted for a while.

 

Something like 2017 1st + Brayshaw at MINIMUM, and I don't think our club wants to trade out any good kids.

7 hours ago, Mickey said:

What about a Kent or similar. Would hate to give up Salem, he is just the sort of class we need

Agree Mickey.  We are bemoaning the terrible turnovers yesterday, so why give up the best disposer of the ball we have and is sorely missed down back as a result.

31 minutes ago, schmuttt said:

Rance would be a better pickup than Hurley, he is the best defender in the league. Would cost us something crazy though, as he is contracted for a while.

 

Something like 2017 1st + Brayshaw at MINIMUM, and I don't think our club wants to trade out any good kids.

That's being realistic about what the Tigers would expect, and it's probably fair.

 

I wouldn't do that trade.

Rance, schmance....no chance.

See what I did there?

1 hour ago, schmuttt said:

Something like 2017 1st + Brayshaw at MINIMUM, and I don't think our club wants to trade out any good kids.

 

He's 28 next year. Definitely not worth first round and brayshaw

Edited August 1, 20169 yr by johndemons

I wouldn't mind Rance in red and blue, might have to clear it with General Viney though, Alex might be a little gun shy when they first meet in red and blue.
Wattsy is a good bloke, I am sure he has forgiven him.