11 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The MFC situation over the past 3-5 years looks highly exposed when you look at what Bolton has done at Carlscum with just one pre season. 

I don't care how old or inexperienced our players are. 

Make them mentally tough or they won't make it. 

If Carlscum shoot back up the ladder ahead of the MFC again and start playing finals i will become rabid. 

Goodwin better be the best young coach in the land. 

Same as the dogs. They were in effing chaos before Beveridge took over. We wait an eternity  for development to happen.

This is good for footy.

I hate Geelong and the golden run they get every year from their home ground advantage and gun recruits they get for basically nothing

Edited May 29, 20169 yr by Petraccattack

Just now, The heart beats true said:

So clearly this was the case last year when we beat Geelong at Geelong?

Why are Melbourne supporters so freakin masochistic after a loss? 

Honestly, it's boring.

No it is facing reality

We have lost 3 games this year against sides we should be beating. 

We lost all 3 because the team did not work hard enough

That includes senior players. 

Beating Geelong last year was great. BUT IT WAS NEGATED when we lost to Carlscum on the MCG weeks later. Kicking 2 goals to halftime on a sunny afternoon. 

This club is forgiven far too often by many people

6 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

So clearly this was the case last year when we beat Geelong at Geelong?

Why are Melbourne supporters so freakin masochistic after a loss? 

Honestly, it's boring.

Because some of us don't accept mediocrity.

3 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Same as the dogs. They were in effing chaos before Beveridge took over. We wait an eternity  for development to happen.

Exactly. Other clubs fast track

We continue to hide behind potential

Good on Carlton. 

Living proof that developing teams are terrible some weeks and world beaters another.

Reckon Pies might get up also. I'm not buying this 'the eight's a lock' baloney.

50 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

It tells me that, because of our youth, we can't do it consistently.  Just because Carlton are doing it today doesn't mean they've done it every week either.

It's Carlton's senior players that are getting the job done this season too. I haven't watched any of the game today, but I understand Gibbs is dominating again. Kreuzer is playing better footy too. Armfield, Everitt, Casboult, Curnow, Walker etc. Their older guys are dragging them through.

Obviously, Bolton is a master motivator and communicator too, but their list is a lot more mature than ours. I just wonder whether they're making their rise too soon. Unless they're going to rely on trading in good players, they don't have enough talent on that list, let alone enough talent in the 18-25 demographic. It might be good for Carlton in the short term, but hamper them in the mid to long term.

34 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

Will be interesting to see if Geelong really are exposed as pretenders. They looked seriously average for huge portions of 2015 and decided to take the top-up route with Danger, Smith and Henderson (ala North Melbourne). A good plan for the short-term but can fall apart pretty quickly. Who is part of the Cats' youth that stands up once the older crew drop off?

I don't really want Carlton to be 5-5 because they'll jump us on the ladder in short order. But Bolton needs to be seriously commended for what he's achieving with that list. He clearly has total buy-in from every player and it shows.

No way Carlton jumps us. Their percentage is putrid. Not this week anyway.

14 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Same as the dogs. They were in effing chaos before Beveridge took over. We wait an eternity  for development to happen.

Disagree. This is a simplistic approach. As per my post above, I think Carlton's list is very, very ordinary. Great coaching and communication can only take you so far. If a team doesn't have enough true talent, a team will never win the ultimate. A team like North might pinch a flag (I highly doubt it), but they'll never have sustained success. We need sustained success as a football club and that's what good, strong clubs should aspire for.

If I was a switched on Carlton supporter, I'd be worried about the ordinary nature of their list. Without access to top picks, they'll struggle to improve their list. Roos and co have done the right thing. Identified players within that have external value and attempted to maximise the compensation we received for each. We also played an outdated, but accountable brand of football that enabled us to stay in games, but never sacrifice access to the best talent in the land (Petracca, Brayshaw, Oliver, Weideman).

I think Carlton are building towards a middle of the road 5th to 8th placed team and will drop off a ledge when Gibbs, Murphy and Kreuzer retire. Unless of course they get extremely lucky with FA and trading. You don't want to base a lot of your future success on luck though. We're building properly. We're building for sustained success and whilst it's frustrating given the rubbish we've had to endure for a decade, I believe it will be worth it in the mid to long term.

I reckon the cats loss to the blues is worse than our loss to the dumbers especially the way the cats think their shitzz don't stink. 

Will be good to c the arrogant smirk wiped from Scotts face. 

Love seeing Geelong lose but Carlton will now overtake us next weekend. 

12 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

Reckon Pies might get up also. I'm not buying this 'the eight's a lock' baloney.

The draw will sort the dogs out a bit.

They have gotten above their station somewhat .

7 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

It's Carlton's senior players that are getting the job done this season too. I haven't watched any of the game today, but I understand Gibbs is dominating again. Kreuzer is playing better footy too. Armfield, Everitt, Casboult, Curnow, Walker etc. Their older guys are dragging them through.

Obviously, Bolton is a master motivator and communicator too, but their list is a lot more mature than ours. I just wonder whether they're making their rise too soon. Unless they're going to rely on trading in good players, they don't have enough talent on that list, let alone enough talent in the 18-25 demographic. It might be good for Carlton in the short term, but hamper them in the mid to long term.

No way Carlton jumps us. Their percentage is putrid. Not this week anyway.

Disagree. This is a simplistic approach. As per my post above, I think Carlton's list is very, very ordinary. Great coaching and communication can only take you so far. If a team doesn't have enough true talent, a team will never win the ultimate. A team like North might pinch a flag (I highly doubt it), but they'll never have sustained success. We need sustained success as a football club and that's what good, strong clubs should aspire for.

If I was a switched on Carlton supporter, I'd be worried about the ordinary nature of their list. Without access to top picks, they'll struggle to improve their list. Roos and co have done the right thing. Identified players within that have external value and attempted to maximise the compensation we received for each. We also played an outdated, but accountable brand of football that enabled us to stay in games, but never sacrifice access to the best talent in the land (Petracca, Brayshaw, Oliver, Weideman).

I think Carlton are building towards a middle of the road 5th to 8th placed team and will drop off a ledge when Gibbs, Murphy and Kreuzer retire. Unless of course they get extremely lucky with FA and trading. You don't want to base a lot of your future success on luck though. We're building properly. We're building for sustained success and whilst it's frustrating given the rubbish we've had to endure for a decade, I believe it will be worth it in the mid to long term.

I wonder what happened to the great coaching and commincation at our club? Likelly answer is it never came.

11 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

No way Carlton jumps us. Their percentage is putrid. Not this week anyway.

They have Lions next week, we have Hawthorn. If the results are as expected, they will be above us on the ladder.

Then they have St Kilda the week after while we face a resurgent Magpies.

We could easily be 5-7 at the bye and they could be 7-5, depressingly enough.

1 minute ago, SaberFang said:

They have Lions next week, we have Hawthorn. If the results are as expected, they will be above us on the ladder.

Then they have St Kilda the week after while we face a resurgent Magpies.

We could easily be 5-7 at the bye and they could be 7-5, depressingly enough.

Does it really matter? Great when we win but I'm not as obsessed with making the eight this year as some. Next year yes.

3 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

Does it really matter? Great when we win but I'm not as obsessed with making the eight this year as some. Next year yes.

With the state Carlton were in last year, it's pretty depressing really.

They're doing it off the back of some very average but very experienced senior players, however. That will almost always trump inexperience.

Doing it against Geelong though was certainly something else, though we managed the same feat last year in much more impressive circumstances.

Edited May 29, 20169 yr by SaberFang

1 minute ago, Return to Glory said:

Does it really matter? Great when we win but I'm not as obsessed with making the eight this year as some. Next year yes.

100% agree with this. 

Incremental improvememnt will ingrain how hard it is to be a great side. No point jumping up too far and thinking it will all come easy. 

I am skeptical about Carlton. Wasn't Hird trying to keep up with them in the first place because he was sure they had a peptide programme?

Kruezer has a knee scrape and should be out for a month and still plays. Casboult has a fractured leg and still plays.  They are two players down for most of the game and still run out the game against one of the premiership favourites.

 

Edited May 29, 20169 yr by Wrecker45

3 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

100% agree with this. 

Incremental improvememnt will ingrain how hard it is to be a great side. No point jumping up too far and thinking it will all come easy. 

Dynasties like at Hawthorn, Geelong and Brisbane developed quickly.   The way we are going the very best Is a 50/50 shot at a GF in 7-8 years. Incremental improvement is just as likely to reverse. Look at Richmond.

Edited May 29, 20169 yr by america de cali

1 minute ago, SaberFang said:

With the state Carlton were in last year, it's pretty depressing really.

They're doing it off the back of some very average but very experienced senior players, however. That will almost always trump inexperience.

Doing it against Geelong though was certainly something else, though we managed the same feat last year.

I just think that you make a mistake if the focus is on whether or not we make the eight this year regardless of the teams around us. Right now I'm relishing the improvement however inconsistent. That's also why I want to see the Weed sooner rather than later and Hulett for that matter.

3 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

I am skeptical about Carlton. Wasn't Hird trying to keep up with them in the first place because he was sure they had a peptide programme?

Kruezer has a knee scrape and should be out for a month and still plays. Casboult has a fractured leg and still plays.  They are two players down for most of the game and still run out the game against one of the premiership favourites.

 

Oooh, controversial! I dare you to ring up SEN talkback and raise that one!

Bulldogs are going to water today against a high-pressure Pies, which has come from nowhere after their early season form.

Stringer completely invisible. Seems we really are the #1 ranked team for playing average teams into stunning form. On today's form we should've beaten the Bulldogs.

The fact that they beat Geelong despite having only 2 players on the bench for 3 quarter demonstrates that there is still something fundamentally wrong with Melbourne's development, that our causes for losses somehow aren't as big issues for other teams. Carlton is currently ahead in development of where we were at the same time (2014). 

1 minute ago, SaberFang said:

Bulldogs are going to water today against a high-pressure Pies, which has come from nowhere after their early season form.

Stringer completely invisible. Seems we really are the #1 ranked team for playing average teams into stunning form. On today's form we should've beaten the Bulldogs.

To me a lot of it comes down to pressure and tackling. When we've been relentless at these things we've won. Collingwood, although a little scrappy are applying these things well and are on top.

If Collingwood play this way in 2 weeks, I shudder to think what will happen.

Especially with our diamond defence seemingly found out by such average teams.

7 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

To me a lot of it comes down to pressure and tackling. When we've been relentless at these things we've won. Collingwood, although a little scrappy are applying these things well and are on top.

As Red noted in Shawshank Redemption 'Football is the study of pressure and time. Thats all it takes really- pressure and time. That and a big goddamn full forward'

Edited May 29, 20169 yr by Return to Glory