In my opinion Hurley > McDonald and I would be comfortable trading McDonald to get back into the first round if we could pick up Hurley as a free agent. Oscar can be developed into the 2nd rebounded tall who has similar athletic traits. 

Clearly both TMAC and Hurley would be the best solution however I kind of like getting back into the first round in what is touted as a strong draft. 

8 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Good response Adam, my response was instinctive.

I'm really excited for our future, mate. Our midfield alone does that, even before we start talking about Hogan. I just hope we leave no stone unturned to ensure our defence is as good as it can be.

19 minutes ago, xiss said:

This thread was obviously started as a result of last weeks game.

Watching him at the Saints game to me he looked like he was playing hurt, nowhere near his normal pace. The 2 weeks before lets no forget he was awesome

I was at all three games and have been thinking it for a couple of weeks. He directly handed Richmond the momentum three times from mindbogglingly stupid decisions or poor skills. Fortunately, we were able to hit back at them eventually, each time.

I'll concede hearing (admittedly hearsay) information that he directly went against instruction and has developed an ego, further inspired this line of thinking though.

We need role players. No player is bigger than a well run club and that includes Jesse.

21 minutes ago, sydneydee said:

In my opinion Hurley > McDonald and I would be comfortable trading McDonald to get back into the first round if we could pick up Hurley as a free agent. Oscar can be developed into the 2nd rebounded tall who has similar athletic traits. 

Clearly both TMAC and Hurley would be the best solution however I kind of like getting back into the first round in what is touted as a strong draft. 

I reckon we run a bit of a risk trading someone just to get back into the first round of the draft.

I have often wondered how Tom would go in a final where the pressure is significantly greater and you have far less time & space.  Tom's actual kicking skills are occasionally horrendous apart from he's decision making.  Once a game Tom will be totally clear and miss a short target by metres. 

IMHO Tom's problem is a very slow and awkward drop of the footy which sometimes causes these big misses.  

I remember a final in Adelaide a couple of years ago when Port jumped Richmond in the first qtr and I haver seen a better example of a number of Tigers simply get found out by the extra pace & pressure despite these same battlers having won their previous 8 or so games to make the finals.

I have my doubts about Tom being up to the additional pace & pressure of finals footy but it would be a brave decision to trade him.  Interestingly, what would his Market Value be?  I suspect a Pick 15 to 20.

 

 

 

 

Nah. One of the gun backmen of the comp. 

No I would not trade him at the end of the season. He is a 24 yo KPP. 

Look at Frawley at Hawthorn. He was similar to Tom in that he was prone to turning the ball over and many supporters were keen for him to go and get in the brand new Brayshaw. Frawley took a while to learn how to fit into the Hawthorn backline but his last two finals in 2015 and his early 2016 form is very good. He doesn't turn it over and takes safer options when he has the ball.

We have a guy in Brayshaw who we all hope will be a gun in a year or two but isn't yet.

I think its time Melbourne stopped being a kindergarten for the big clubs. We need Tom as part of a mature backline that grows together, not another potential kid champion that we all slobber over then cut down in their third year because they haven't performed miracles.

Adam your post annoys me. When are you going to start up the "Brayshaw is too slow" thread and start cutting another down. Try being a "SUPPORTER" for a while.

You don't get better quickly as a team by replacing players of TMac's ability. You get better by replacing the worst players on the list with good players. We need players around Tom to compliment him, we don't need to offload him. He is young and has elite KPD traits that we would be crazy to get rid of.

3 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

Well...? 

Player	Kicks		Handballs		Disposals		Disp eff %	Marks		Hit-outs		Frees For		Frees Agst		Tackles		Goals		AFL Fantasy
	TOT	AVG	TOT	AVG	TOT	AVG	TOT	TOT	AVG	TOT	AVG	TOT	AVG	TOT	AVG	TOT	AVG	TOT	AVG	TOT	AVG
1Neville Jetta	41	6.8	47	7.8	88	14.7	87.5	20	3.3	0	0	6	1	3	0.5	26	4.3	0	0	378	63
2Lynden Dunn	42	10.5	13	3.3	55	13.8	87.3	15	3.8	1	0.3	6	1.5	6	1.5	10	2.5	1	0.3	232	58
3Colin Garland	12	6	6	3	18	9	83.3	9	4.5	0	0	1	0.5	1	0.5	6	3	0	0	97	48.5
4Max Gawn	38	6.3	50	8.3	88	14.7	80.7	28	4.7	242	40.3	9	1.5	15	2.5	14	2.3	5	0.8	592	98.7
5Tom McDonald	64	10.7	34	5.7	98	16.3	79.6	40	6.7	0	0	3	0.5	3	0.5	6	1	0	0	398	66.3

Given the statistics above, we should be trading out some of the real turnover kings at the club. TMac is fifth on the list for effective disposals. Jack Viney and Bernie Vince are rated as 1 and 2 for clangers with 27 and 23 respectively, whilst Tom MacDonald sits on 11 clangers. I understand that stats don't always tell the whole story and that a mistake in the back-line can be costly but consider also that if the midfield clangers weren't occurring, maybe the ball wouldn't be in our defensive half quite as much and defenders like TMac who attack the ball would not be under so much pressure. In fact if you have a look at the top five here, it's interesting to see that four of them are defenders. i find that sort of comforting.

Let's not be too hasty in finding a whipping boy. There are plenty more with worse decision making skills than TMac.

GoDees!

 

 

4 hours ago, Chook said:

I only hope that recent comments on his "uncoachability" have been overstated.

What comments are these chook?

Rubbish question - T Mac is one of the premier young defenders in the comp. Love that he plays for us.

I don't think we're in a position where we have any players who aren't tradable if the right offer comes along, It would have to be a bloody good deal before i'd even entertain thinking about it, 

He makes mistakes but he's an absolute jet of a defender who still has a heap of development in him and i firmly believe that by as early as next season he will be the best CHB in the league.  

It is also a non issue because he's deep into contract talks with the club so he won't be going anywhere.

6 hours ago, Chook said:

I only hope that recent comments on his "uncoachability" have been overstated.

Recent comments where and by whom?

9 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

Interesting responses.

So let's say his decision making doesn't improve throughout the course of the season and we're at Round 23, and he's still making the same sorts of errors: does anyone reconsider? I totally get the argument that we've got one KPD with elite attributes and it's easier to stick with him given these, but at what point do these elite traits get overshadowed by turn overs?

Everyone's tradeable. 

Problem with McDonald is what would we get back? Probably not what we want and we don't have another big KPD to step into his role. So from that angle I'd say no but we do need to trade in or draft some more KPD's as we are already one short. I don't think his brothers gonna do the trick, Dunn is undersized and in the Twilight of his career - Frost needs to be tried back there but nor confident on him either .

This is Jack Watts all over again 

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Everyone's tradeable. 

Problem with McDonald is what would we get back? Probably not what we want and we don't have another big KPD to step into his role. So from that angle I'd say no but we do need to trade in or draft some more KPD's as we are already one short. I don't think his brothers gonna do the trick, Dunn is undersized and in the Twilight of his career - Frost needs to be tried back there but nor confident on him either .

Ay ..here's the rub eh

It's not if, but what.

What do you want?what coukxyou get, what benefit / improvement for doing so ? These are what governs a trade.

Not if. Of course he is.

McDonald is both a massive liability and a required asset. He still has a long way to go but he's an integral part of our rise up the ladder.

Tmacs decision making is getting dumber each time he touches the bloody ball. 

Def tradable for the right price. 

I wouldn't offer him up for trade, but if the right trade was offered you would listen. 

Why is everyone still talking about Hurley like he's a possibility to move? He's staying. All but confirmed via Slobbo.

And Tmac tradeable? For a first rounder? Another KP defender we'd have to wait 80 games to see if they've got what it takes? And that's assuming they're good enough and don't end up a dud? People actually think he's worth a first rounder? Either he plays well enough to warrant a first rounder, in which case we'll be desperate to keep him. Or he plays horribly, and we want to trade him, by which time his market value would have dropped out of the first round.

We lost Frawley already. We have no really good KP defenders coming through, unless OMac improves 300% overnight. Frost sin't the answer. Dunn is older, Garland is almost finished.

And all this while TMac is still playing some good footy? Have I got this straight?

This is gonna be up there with the dumbest threads this year.

We need a Jeremy McGovern or an Easton Wood type player that are great marks and  can play a sweeping role to assist TMac.

Dumb thread. No way we trade him. He is crucial 

12 minutes ago, praha said:

McDonald is both a massive liability and a required asset. He still has a long way to go but he's an integral part of our rise up the ladder.

Exactly, when he has the ball in hand and looks up I sometimes look away, but this will get better and better, to suggest he be traded is laughable....a resounding NON from me

i'm going to suggest something unpalatable to some.

That not all players turn up 100% to each and every game ( who'd d a thunk huh ) 

T Mac for mine is definitely in this group. Some games he's far more switched on and his t/o's are less and kicking better  and  He's "ON"

Many other games he's like playing 90% and all sorts of errors come flooding back.

In some areas we've seen his ceiling, in others he still has a way to improve.

Its between the ears....again

question is...what is between his ears !!

17 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Exactly, when he has the ball in hand and looks up I sometimes look away,( why ? we all know the answer here )  but this will get better and better,( it might, it might not) to suggest he be traded is laughable ( seen note below )....a resounding NON from me ( an opinion based stance, thats fine )

to suggest he isnt tradable is more lauaghable

Youre missing the point