The few times the bloody ball  was delivered to him well enough he was pushed, pulled and knocked off unfairly. The white maggot called play on my Essendon "lovey dovies"

2 minutes ago, willmoy said:

The few times the bloody ball  was delivered to him well enough he was pushed, pulled and knocked off unfairly. The white maggot called play on my Essendon "lovey dovies"

That will happen, it did last year too but her didn't whine about it then.

6 minutes ago, willmoy said:

The few times the bloody ball  was delivered to him well enough he was pushed, pulled and knocked off unfairly. The white maggot called play on my Essendon "lovey dovies"

If Hogan is fairdinkum he should be monstering defenders instead of setting himself up for potential frees. He is supposed to be the gorilla forward. Try also hard leading for a change.

3 minutes ago, willmoy said:

The few times the bloody ball  was delivered to him well enough he was pushed, pulled and knocked off unfairly. The white maggot called play on my Essendon "lovey dovies"

That's the lot of the stay-at-home gorilla forward. Forget the umps. Lead and make it tough for the defenders.

4 minutes ago, willmoy said:

The few times the bloody ball  was delivered to him well enough he was pushed, pulled and knocked off unfairly. The white maggot called play on my Essendon "lovey dovies"

He didn't give any second efforts and left his defender to run off him while he sooked to the umpires.

Needs an attitude adjustment. Fast.

6 minutes ago, america de cali said:

I would not be surprised if Hogan wants to be dropped. McCarthy at GWS walked out. Hogan perhaps trying a different approach maybe wants to be such a pain in the arse that there is no alternative but to send him on his way.

This is beginning to look like the story, if you ask me.

6 minutes ago, willmoy said:

The few times the bloody ball  was delivered to him well enough he was pushed, pulled and knocked off unfairly. The white maggot called play on my Essendon "lovey dovies"

No excuse. Happens to all forwards. The difference the others don't whinge and keep playing until the whistle.

10 minutes ago, willmoy said:

The few times the bloody ball  was delivered to him well enough he was pushed, pulled and knocked off unfairly. The white maggot called play on my Essendon "lovey dovies"

Daniher was impeded at times as well and the umps called play on for him, it happens to just about every large bodied forward. Difference was when Daniher was infringed he worked hard at the second effort and waited to a break in play to say "hey c'mon ump". Hogan does it straight away, it's straight out of the Spanish football text books. If they don't see it him looking sooky isn't going to help. 

As I said before he is better than this; he needs to forget about the umps, forget about the delivery and focus on things he can control: like his work rate and attitude. 

Hogan is a gun centre-half-forward in the making, but for some reason they're playing him close to goal. 

Just now, america de cali said:

I would not be surprised if Hogan wants to be dropped. McCarthy at GWS walked out. Hogan perhaps trying a different approach maybe wants to be such a pain in the arse that there is no alternative but to send him on his way.

What on earth does McCarthy walking out on GWS got to do with Jesse Hogan's poor body language?! And then to say that perhaps Hogans deliberately cracking the sads so just so that he can get dropped and go home??

By far the most bizzare thing i have read in a while.

Your usually better then this ADC?

 

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

What on earth does McCarthy walking out on GWS got to do with Jesse Hogan's poor body language?! And then to say that perhaps Hogans deliberately cracking the sads so just so that he can get dropped and go home??

By far the most bizzare thing i have read in a while.

Your usually better then this ADC?

 

What's worse than his poor body language is the coaches letting him get away with it or perhaps they can't stop it. What's the remedy?

8 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Hogan is a gun centre-half-forward in the making, but for some reason they're playing him close to goal. 

There is no one else ProDee to play at FF.

There are a few who can fill the spot and contribute at CHF

19 minutes ago, poita said:

I had assumed it was. We weren't doing it in the NAB challenge when Goodwin was in charge, but we have done just that for seven of eight quarters since Roos has taken the reins back. I feel sorry for Hogan, our delivery was beyond abysmal on Saturday.

sorry...but really  - that it was you assumed ???? You really believe that the game plan changed from Goodwin to Roos ??? 

The short answer is that is not the game plan  - and we did not bomb it for 1 and half quarters last week.

There is nothing wrong with bombing it in long as you do it very quickly and to the advantage side of a player - that gives you a better than even chance in a one on one contest. 

However thats not what we have been doing  - we were slow and reactive and bomb it in long to a crowded forward.

You did note on Saturday that our uncontested possession was down 100 ! ( that was not evident in the NAB challenge) - we were almost even in the contested possession. That tells you we were ok in the contest but the minute we got the ball no one worked hard enough to make space. No worked to get free on the outside. We were lazy.

There is a marked step up from NAB to the real McCoy of home and away - and for 6 quarters either teams did not let us play the way we want to or we simply did not play the way we wanted ( on Saturday I suspect the later). 

I feel sorry for any forward the way the ball is coming in. However there is nothing incorrect in the article by Lloyd on Hogan and Jesse's body language and some of his efforts were poor during the NAB challenge as well.

 

14 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Hogan is a gun centre-half-forward in the making, but for some reason they're playing him close to goal. 

I think he can be either  - however you are 100% right that  he should have been moved further up the ground and use his aerobic capacity and get him running around. They moved him into the midfield last week to get his hands on the ball a few times and that worked and got him going. I think he has had "moments" this year but not much more so I would absolutely play him out at CHF and hopefully get him working harder.

Can't say I usually agree with Lloyd all that much but I did post this in the changes for next game thread a few hours ago-

 

"I know this is a complete overreaction but would it be the worst idea to actually drop Hogan for a week? He is still our most talented player and makes us semi dangerous in the forward half but my logic is this and this alone. The club has talked about not just gifting games to anyone and they have to earn it. Hogan obviously has credits in the bank and is by far our best forward however, if you need to work for a game, he hasn't met that criteria. 

Not performing is semi justified if there is an effort made by the player. Hogan however is barely leading, and when he loses a contest, he doesn't even make a token 2nd effort. It would not help us in the next game by any stretch of the imagination but it would at least make us honest, instead of saying 'you earn your spot' and then turning around and literally gifting games to a player who is giving absolutely zero effort. He has had 6/7 quarters out of 8 so far where he hasn't even bothered trying.

If one of our less talented players (say Matt Jones or another 'fringe' player) did this they would be dropped without second though. Why not practice what we preach and show Hogan we mean what we say. Trying is an absolute minimum, performing is an outcome and great talent is a bonus. Imagine Neitz doing what Hogan is right now, it would never, ever happen.

Neal-Bullen performed in the 2's yes? He gets a game. Dunn gets one too. Drop Hogan to make a very strong point to everyone and Kent because he didn't want to be there on Saturday. Let Tmac play forward for a week, Dunn down back and ANB for Kent. It'll make our team weaker but I don't want the club to bend to the will of a 20 year old with amazing talent and a sometimes shocking attitude."

 

We are sick of being the joke of the AFL, talk about change coming through from the top PJ/Roos, etc, and that it isn't necessarily a matter of talent anymore. We can't just let our stars give up and not even try. Hogan could very well come out and kick 5 against the Roos but he isn't excused from trying. Let him know that it isnt acceptable, and it might show the entire team that you earn games and are not given them. I'd love to see it but I know it would mean we also go in with a much weaker forwardline.

I have mentioned on here before, my best friend is good friends with Jesse and i caught up with her this morning and she said he thinks he's " overthinking it" and forgetting to do the basic things well, getting a bit frustrated it's not happening for him while still understanding that's because he's not doing the basics like leading hard and so on. 

The coaches are telling him just keep it simple, try and get to as many contests as possible and try not to be outmarked, if he brings it to the ground it gives Jeffy a chance. 

we saw in the last quarter against the Giants how good a player he is, but you'll notice there, he is much better when the forward line isn't packed and we're delivering it to him not bombing it on top of his head. 

 

I am in the "he needs to learn" camp. If you look at the banner on the club website Hogan picture is taken from last year where he is up and running, trying to rev the players up after a goal. He hasn't done that this year once!

After his one goal in the last quarter we needed him to do that and show he was trying his hardest and wanted us to win. No what we got was a little point to the player who kicked it to him and a nod.  I agree he is sooking it up big time and needs to put in a lot more effort. To me it is starting to look a bit like how Scully played before he pulled the pin. I know he wants to see if we are improving but doesn't that improvement include him putting in a 100% effort as well?

Fair bit of shooting the messenger in this thread.

For what it is worth, I don't disagree with him. Body language is horrible as is the constant remonstrating with umpires.

Lloyd has earned his right to comment. Demonlanders would do better to discuss the issue rather than attack Lloyd.

(Scene: A luxury suite at AAMI park. Jesse Hogan reclines on a golden couch. Two white tigers are at his side. Hogan dangles a white mouse by the tail and drops it into one of the tigers’ mouths. Paul Roos, Simon Goodwin, Josh Mahoney and Todd Viney are kneeling in front of the couch.)

There is silence as Hogan gazes sternly at each one in turn.

 JH: Well?

 Goodwin: Jesse, we’re … we’re sorry!

JH: What for, scum?

Goodwin: … I don’t know. But we’re sorry!

JH: Hmm. Just what I thought. How useless you all are.

Roos: Jesse, what do you want? Just tell us what you want!

JH: What a loathsome specimen you are. I never noticed before.

Roos: I—

JH: Some of the chattering classes have irked me. That Lloyd fellow. I don’t like him.

Viney: Matthew Lloyd? The champion full forward?

JH: Oh he’s played, has he? I suppose in some by gone era. The damned fossil.

Viney: Retired in 2009.

JH: Exactly. He’s as out of date and out of touch as you pathetic excuses.

Mahoney: Jesse, please tell us what you want.

JH: What I want. Let’s see. A salary I can actually live on, a playing list that understands me, some decent works of art around here wouldn’t go astray. And for God’s sake don’t let me see you wearing those damned shirts again. They’re awful.

Mahoney: The club shirts? With the logo and the sponsors?

JH: Mm-hmm. Get rid of them. If I ever see one of them again I shall buy a plane ticket to … Blacktown, perhaps?

Mahoney: But Jesse …

JH: Oh, silence, you idiot. You asked what I want. I want that [censored] eliminated.

Roos: You mean … Lloyd?

JH: Who else would I mean?

(Silence)

Roos: We don’t have that much pull in the press, Jesse. We can’t just—

JH: SHUT UP! I’m not talking about the press! I mean take him out in a box! Now you’ve upset Simba, you dolt.

(The coaches look at each other)

Viney: We can’t do that, Jesse. You can’t mean it?

JH: Can’t can’t can’t. God, what a pack of dismal failures. I’m getting my headache again. You may go. Next week I’m playing at Casey.

All: What!!!

JH: You heard me. I don’t travel. From now on I will be “tired” and need to be “rested” every time we go interstate.

 All: But—Jesse, you—What do you—

(JH raises his hand slightly. There is instant silence.)

JH: You may now leave. Have my champagne bath ready at 3 sharp.

All: Yes Jesse.

If you had of told me at the start of the year we'd even be having this conversation, I wouldn't have even been surprised.

There's always this doubt I have in my mind that Melbourne is just never going to go anywhere.

Roosy reckons the players are 'mentally scarred'. I think there might be a couple of us supporters who certainly are.

1 hour ago, america de cali said:

I would not be surprised if Hogan wants to be dropped. McCarthy at GWS walked out. Hogan perhaps trying a different approach maybe wants to be such a pain in the arse that there is no alternative but to send him on his way.

Whether this is true or not players wanting to leave after a few short years to go to more powerful clubs is a blight on the game. Why have a draft at all, all it does is delay the inevitable for a couple of years.

1 hour ago, Forest Demon said:

Spot on. He needs a rocket.

I agree, he's played 22 games thus far in his career, he has no right to continually stick his arms up like a prima donna, or be so demanding of his teammates. Yes delivery has been poor and he hasn't had many chances to see the ball, but he hasn't done much to rectify this himself.

If Jesse wants to be treated like a star, firstly he needs to become one (he isn't one yet), and even if he does, he should still have a team first attitude, rather than the more individualistic demeanor he has displayed so far this year. 

Lloyd is right. His attitude and body language is terrible, and had this been displayed by say Watts, everyone here would be up in arms. But we seem to have some sort of Jesse complex where he is beyond criticism. 

I do not care how badly we deliver the ball to him or whether we are playing him out of position. He is part of a team, and he is being selfish. I remember him giving Cross a spray last year and I thought that was horrific from a kid. I like that he wants to be successful, but sooking and having a go at teammates isn't how you go about it. 

It's a terrible look and it needs to be nipped in the bud. 

13 minutes ago, Juicebox said:

If you had of told me at the start of the year we'd even be having this conversation, I wouldn't have even been surprised.

There's always this doubt I have in my mind that Melbourne is just never going to go anywhere.

Roosy reckons the players are 'mentally scarred'. I think there might be a couple of us supporters who certainly are.

Roosy also said in his press conference that a few boys were "big headed" heading into the game, whilst Zach Merrett thought we were rather lackluster.

Is it not Roos' job to ensure that such mentalities are not present? If that was the attitude of some of our boys heading into the game and he recognised this, yet did nothing to rectify it, then Roos and the coaching group had already failed, even before the ball was bounced. I find that very concerning from our head coach (the entire coaching group actually).

1 minute ago, Demon Disciple said:

Roosy also said in his press conference that a few boys were "big headed" heading into the game, whilst Zach Merrett thought we were rather lackluster.

Is it not Roos' job to ensure that such mentalities are not present? If that was the attitude of some of our boys heading into the game and he recognised this, yet did nothing to rectify it, then Roos and the coaching group had already failed, even before the ball was bounced. I find that very concerning from our head coach (the entire coaching group actually).

 

Yep, you're spot on. All things said and done, for the kind of coin he's on, we should at least have a coach that doesn't say things that just boggle the mind.

Only time will tell just how big of a legacy Roos is going to leave behind. I'm confident it'll be profound and important. But again, I still have my doubts. People say the MFC has lost the trust of it's supporters and that is just so true.