16 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

What would the Swannies need to hand over ?

Someone with pace would be nice. I'd much rather keep McDonald though.

In answer to questions.

Yes, I rate Wagner and as he improves he will be an upgrade on Mc Donald and Yes packaging him of with O Mac to Swans and maybe others involved in wheeling and dealing would not concern me one little bit!

Get Browne from Collingwood, Get Hurley and or Hibberd, keep developing Frost and you then have some options. Not to mention Melksham on a wing or running of half back!

One thing that really worries me about T Mac is the possibility of one of his brian fades in a final for example that ends up costs us a game! Plenty will disagree but that is just MY opinion!

15 minutes ago, picket fence said:

In answer to quetions.

Yes I rate Wagner and as he improves he will be an upgrade on Mc Donald and Yes packaging him of with O Mac to Swans and maybe others involved in wheeling and dealing would not phase me one little bit!

Get Browne from Collingwood, Get Hurley and or Hibberd, keep developing Frost and you then have some options. Not to mention Melksham on a wing or running of half back!

One thing that really worries me about T Mac is the possibility of one of his brian fades in a final for example that ends up costs us a game! Plenty will disagree but that is just MY opinion!

Packaging off TMac and OMac would be a dream come true for you PF, wouldn't it?

McDonald is required, required, required!

33 minutes ago, Django said:

Someone with pace would be nice. I'd much rather keep McDonald though.

I would demand a pretty high price for a young KPD who has shown far more good than bad, its absurd to let Tmac go for much less than one of their best youngsters. The fact people are so happy to trade any of our defenders blows my mind. They all have potential to improve (aside from jetta who is probably at his ceiling). Yes we need to look to get another KPD but Frost and the 2 Macs all have plenty of improvement in them. If they all reached their potential in 2/3 years time we would have a very moblie tall defence capable of matching most forwardlines.

44 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

I would demand a pretty high price for a young KPD who has shown far more good than bad, its absurd to let Tmac go for much less than one of their best youngsters. The fact people are so happy to trade any of our defenders blows my mind. They all have potential to improve (aside from jetta who is probably at his ceiling). Yes we need to look to get another KPD but Frost and the 2 Macs all have plenty of improvement in them. If they all reached their potential in 2/3 years time we would have a very moblie tall defence capable of matching most forwardlines.

This is a religion known as Satyrism.

It's where you place blind faith in every player on the list and imagine they'll be a best 22 player forever and a day at our club. A star even.

Frost is extremely limited in his smarts and basic skills as an AFL player. That's already a huge hurdle to overcome at this level, regardless of his 'freakish' athletic gifts. And Oscar has shown just as many bad signs as good ones in my eyes. I'm stating it as it is. Every player has 'potential' and the ability to 'improve'. But they also have a timeline and with it, a limit.

Anyway, forecasting these hypotheticals from where we are is hard to do. Mainly because we have little idea of who we've been speaking to behind closed doors, bar the odd murmuring.

However, I'm sure if Tom McDonald surprised everyone by signing with Sydney, we would have a plan in place.

1 minute ago, stevethemanjordan said:

This is a religion known as Satyrism.

It's where you place blind faith in every player on the list and imagine they'll be a best 22 player forever and a day at our club. A star even.

Frost is extremely limited in his smarts and basic skills as an AFL player. That's already a huge hurdle to overcome at this level, regardless of his 'freakish' athletic gifts. And Oscar has shown just as many bad signs as good ones in my eyes. I'm stating it as it is. Every player has 'potential' and the ability to 'improve'. But they also have a timeline.

Anyway, forecasting these hypotheticals from where we are is hard to do. Mainly because we have little idea of who we've been speaking to behind closed doors, bar the odd murmuring.

However, I'm sure if Tom McDonald surprised everyone by signing with Sydney, we would have a plan in place.

I did say we need to find another KPD, that gives us the flexability to have one of our current players never make it. Tmac has made it whether people agree or not, he is an AFL standard defender who could still get better even if he doesnt he does the job, preferably as number 2 defender but he can compete for number 1. One of Omac or Frost should be good enough to cement a role as a 3rd defender.  I would be astounded if all 3 were still our keys in 3 years time but I was saying that it is possible, they all have the potential, no use trading that potential to someone else.

Personally I agree that Frost is limited by skill, but his flexability without ball in hand is enough to make him worth investing in. Omac on the other hand i disagree i think he had shown far more good than bad. He is a fantastic user and just needs to bulk. He has the most upside of the 3 imo.

Re Sydney I know Richards is probably in his last season and Grundy has only just turned 30. They also have Talia who i forgot about and Sam Reid as key position players who can play down back. I can see how McDonald would attract interest but I cannot imagine Sydney would pay overs. They have Alir Alir as their Oscar mac, the developing key back.

3 hours ago, beelzebub said:

no kidding

No, my point was why are people comparing Wagner to McDonald when they play in different positions. Just seems a waste of time.

On 6/24/2016 at 8:16 PM, Deestroy All said:

!!! + !!!!!! = !!!!!!!!!

Not to be pedantic...

!!! + !!!!!! = !!?????????(wtf)!!!!

10 minutes ago, Redleg said:

No, my point was why are people comparing Wagner to McDonald when they play in different positions. Just seems a waste of time.

missed the point huh

I can encourage you to reread a few of the posts Red.

It was ( for some ) above relative development and abilities with ball

Recent banana deprivation hasnt helped has it

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

missed the point huh

I can encourage you to reread a few of the posts Red.

It was ( for some ) above relative development and abilities with ball

Recent banana deprivation hasnt helped has it

Probably not, but i still don't see the point in saying we should be keeping a back flanker and getting rid of a key defender, by comparing them as to who is the better user of the ball and how quick they can develop.

It's still apples and oranges. Note no mention of bananas.

On 23 June 2016 at 2:06 PM, Django said:

He's definitely a required player and is a good defender ...

Of course he's a good defender, that's why Sydney are (very) interested in the first place.

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Probably not, but i still don't see the point in saying we should be keeping a back flanker and getting rid of a key defender, by comparing them as to who is the better user of the ball and how quick they can develop.

It's still apples and oranges. Note no mention of bananas.

again ..point missed I feel.. It was using the progress of one as a barometer to judge the progress of another.

Tmac's  progress  is probably a tad faster than a snails. 5 years in and hes not that much improved. Many of his decisions are right up there with a wet behind the ears newbie. Marvelous stuff.

6 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

again ..point missed I feel.. It was using the progress of one as a barometer to judge the progress of another.

Tmac's  progress  is probably a tad faster than a snails. 5 years in and hes not that much improved. Many of his decisions are right up there with a wet behind the ears newbie. Marvelous stuff.

You are re-writing history. We took Tom with a speculative pick and has become one of the best young KPDs in the comp by 23. His weakness with ball in hand is obvious and is the difference between being a very good defender and an AA defender, not comparable to a rookie. I'm all for improving the side but moving on guys like Tom is very rarely the way to do it.

Tom Mitchell has put contract talks with Sydney on hold after getting very close to a deal.

Swap him for our Tom Mc?

19 minutes ago, Radar Detector said:

You are re-writing history. We took Tom with a speculative pick and has become one of the best young KPDs in the comp by 23. His weakness with ball in hand is obvious and is the difference between being a very good defender and an AA defender, not comparable to a rookie. I'm all for improving the side but moving on guys like Tom is very rarely the way to do it.

time and time again its said where you get picked is irrelevant. Once youre at the club its head down  bum up  and get with it. 

To forgive Tom his various and numerous faux pas is the element  to go under scrutiny I would have thought.

Im not rewriting ANYTHING...just stating what is.  Again , Tom does some things well... and some very poorly. Often the things requiring thought/reason are the downfall. Now again thats observational.  Re write it if you prefer

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

Of course he's a good defender, that's why Sydney are (very) interested in the first place.

The issue is that a lot of people (and one in particular) fail to actually see that he is good at what he does.

2 minutes ago, Django said:

The issue is that a lot of people (and one in particular) fail to actually see that he is good at what he does.

he is good at some of what he does .  Lets not over state his abilities please

6 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

he is good at some of what he does .  Lets not over state his abilities please

Overstating his abilities would be to say that he is great at what he does.

He's a defender, and for the most part he defends well. His decision making is obviously sub par and he is prone to brain fades. Overall though, he is good at what he does and I'll stand by that. He'd be a big loss and I truly hope we hold onto him. Improvement in decision making will come with maturity.

5 minutes ago, Django said:

Overstating his abilities would be to say that he is great at what he does.

He's a defender, and for the most part he defends well. His decision making is obviously sub par and he is prone to brain fades. Overall though, he is good at what he does and I'll stand by that. He'd be a big loss and I truly hope we hold onto him. Improvement in decision making will come with maturity.

Yes he does defend well/  The attacking side of things....well... bit hit and miss

5 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Tom Mitchell has put contract talks with Sydney on hold after getting very close to a deal.

Swap him for our Tom Mc?

 

Carlton are all over him!

Mitchel and their first pick. 

Unfortunately if Mitchell goes anywhere, it's Carlton.

Tom McDonald and Alex Neal Bullen or [Average player with potential] for Hurley and Pick 1. Pick 1 for Dion Prestia. Assuming Hurley can get out without wanting his beloved old club to receive compensation but I doubt it. Bombers would absolutely hate this trade I suppose if they don't rate T-Mac, but need a Hurley replacement to challenge. Am I way off the mark with this one guys? 

4 minutes ago, johndemons said:

Tom McDonald and Alex Neal Bullen or [Average player with potential] for Hurley and Pick 1. Pick 1 for Dion Prestia. Assuming Hurley can get out without wanting his beloved old club to receive compensation but I doubt it. Bombers would absolutely hate this trade I suppose if they don't rate T-Mac. Am I way off the mark with this one guys? 

If your scenario were to play out, Pick 1 would be overs for Prestia.