On 26/09/2016 at 07:02, iv'a worn smith said:

No I'm not, I am simply reading about it.  http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-tue-under-scrutiny-before-sunday-morning-interview/  So let me get this right, you're saying individual sporting bodies act independently and without the imprimatur of WADA?

This is just rhetorical BS. Information on who does what and under whose imprimatur is readily available.

  On 26/09/2016 at 07:06, iv'a worn smith said:

So without the imprimatur of WADA?

 

that's not my understanding, iva.

many peds are also used therapeutically for genuine medical reason. There has always been provision for athletes to get exemptions for special situations and under special strict conditions (dosage, documentation, who, why, when) sometimes (not always) including a period of non competing.

there shouldn't necessarily be anything sinister in that as long as the procedures are followed

Does he not have to declare till a time in the future then, bit sus...

  On 26/09/2016 at 06:46, bing181 said:

Wiggins having injections under the TUE system as administered by his sport (UCI) have/had nothing to do with WADA or CAS, so not sure why you bring it up.

Except ... since that this has come out, it has emerged that it seems a lot of cyclists and swimmers have these asthma problems.

Bradley has done nothing illegal.

But then a lot of pollies claiming travel expenses have done "nothing illegal" but to us ordinary plebs it looks very bad.

  On 26/09/2016 at 07:19, Ted Fidge said:

Except ... since that this has come out, it has emerged that it seems a lot of cyclists and swimmers have these asthma problems.

"Conclusions: Compared to the general population, an increased risk of asthma diagnosis and treatment was shown for athletes involved in endurance sports. This might be due to a better medical surveillance and treatment of these athletes.

.....

Taking socio-demographic differences and smoking habits between top athletes and the general population into account, our study suggest that medical surveillance and treatment in Germany especially in top athletes involved in endurance sports is better than in the general population."

https://aacijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1710-1492-6-31

 

  On 26/09/2016 at 07:19, Ted Fidge said:

Except ... since that this has come out, it has emerged that it seems a lot of cyclists and swimmers have these asthma problems.

You're right - and might like to look into Exercise Induced Asthma (EIA), also referred to as exercise-induced bronchoconstriction (EIB). Well-known, and for a long time, long before steroids etc. were available.

  On 26/09/2016 at 05:56, daisycutter said:

choke, iva has already said the insurers themselves wouldn't be party to overpaying, and i agree that is likely. my reply to that is we have no guarantee that the total accepted compensation payment will be paid by the insurers alone. extra could be paid by either essendon or wealthy benefactors. This could be part of the legal settlement whereby the insurers may argue they are only required to partially pay because of essendon's conduct and the terms of the insurance. This happens a lot in civil cases where payouts are met by multiple parties. Alternatively the players could receive separate payments via essendon benefactors on condition they accept the insurers offer. All of this amounting to a higher "compensation" but a lower contract value. I'm not suggesting any of this will happen, just pointing out there is scope for it and despite afl oversight i'm not sure they would necessarily pick it up or be able to do much about it.

anyway the key point i'd make is that the insurers themselves would only be settling for the least amount they can without wishing to "assist" essendon 

You are making the assumption that the only payments the player will get are from the insurance company. It's entirely possible the insurance cpy says we are only offering you, say, $100k, and the player says well I want $300k. He goes to the club for more.

Or it is possible that an insurance cpy pays overs and the club agrees to indemnify them for the extra payments by, say, paying them directly or increasing their business or by Paul Little saying 'you wil get Toll's business' etc. 

there are so many ways that a deal could/might happen. I don't trust these cheats at all. I have seen how they have tried to beat the system repeatedly with their lawsuits and their obfuscation and their treatment of Hal Hunter or anyone that dares question them.

  On 26/09/2016 at 10:13, jnrmac said:

You are making the assumption that the only payments the player will get are from the insurance company. It's entirely possible the insurance cpy says we are only offering you, say, $100k, and the player says well I want $300k. He goes to the club for more.

Or it is possible that an insurance cpy pays overs and the club agrees to indemnify them for the extra payments by, say, paying them directly or increasing their business or by Paul Little saying 'you wil get Toll's business' etc. 

there are so many ways that a deal could/might happen. I don't trust these cheats at all. I have seen how they have tried to beat the system repeatedly with their lawsuits and their obfuscation and their treatment of Hal Hunter or anyone that dares question them.

huh? did you actually read my post

i was saying the complete opposite to choke because he just referred only to insurance payments

sheesh, jnr

 

  On 26/09/2016 at 06:37, iv'a worn smith said:

That is my only argument.  The sanctions placed on individual employees, far out weigh those suffered by the club.  From my perspective, the club will be successful again, in the not too distant future and all of this will be consigned to the dustbin of history, as far as the EFC will be concerned.  Their significant support base will be as feral as ever, with their overt displays of ignorant arrogance.  Their wait, in comparison, to play finals football again, will be far shorter than what we at the MFC have had to endure.  Not sure we can say the same for the EFC players.

Decisions by CAS, under the auspices of WADA, are often more arbitrary, than the jurisdictions, governed by statutes.  As late as this morning, we learned that Sir Bradley Wiggins was given exemptions for steroids due to the claim that the 'medication' was administered for his asthmatic condition.  Before this came to light, he denied ever injecting himself or being injected, except for vaccinations.

I wonder if things would have been different, if the salutation of "Sir" did not precede his name.

Did Wiggins have the steroids injected? I know nothing of the case but do know that various inhalers used to treat all sorts of things contain steroids. He may not have ever been injected with it. 

  On 26/09/2016 at 10:43, daisycutter said:

huh? did you actually read my post

i was saying the complete opposite to choke because he just referred only to insurance payments

sheesh, jnr

 

Yep, I should have written 'payments by insurer/'penalty' payment by EFC/benefactor'.

I think my theory still stands, just the source of the payments needed more elaboration, as you correctly pointed out.

I think jnr was actually agreeing with you.

Just reading an article in the Guardian about Cronulla in this weeks NRL final.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/29/cronullas-potential-drought-breakers-the-nrl-grand-final-fairytale-that-isnt

Found the following post in the comments section interesting:

Yeah, remember the early talk about how the AFL was managing this masterfully and the NRL was fumbling through it? Also that blinkered clown Gerard Whately on Offsiders saying Essendon is a 2/10 and the Sharks 9/10?

Turns out Dave Smith played a blinder. Paul Gallen and co. should send him a Christmas present every year.

Meanwhile not only was Essendon's program far more wide-reaching and sinister than the Sharks, but the league, club and players have all handled it abysmally.

The AFL treated it like a PR exercise to be stage-managed, and got humiliated by CAS. NRL co-operated with WADA.

Essendon should probably be suspended, like Russian athletics was.

And the players across both codes don't appear to have learnt a thing, still trotting out excuses that don't wash for a 15 year old amateur swimmer still in school, yet as full-time professionals they seem to think they are completely unaccountable for being injected with random [censored]. But at least the Sharks players were managed to cop it and move on.

The biggest shame for the NRL is that the clubs got nervous about the TV deal, forced Smith out, and with that gave the wrong people the leverage all over again. There is no way they are capable of manage anything of this magnitude so well next time without him.

Crameri is interesting now because if the dogs win his compo will reflect that the EFC cost him a flag. 

I personally don't believe the players should get compo, i believe they've been charged, they've failed to keep records, fill out forms correctly and so the only reason i can see the EFC wanting to consider paying them compo would be to avoid the true nature of the program becoming public, there is no doubt the players could paint a very different picture of things to what the AFL has painted. 

Gil the Dill just insinuated we'll be playing the Bombers in Round 1 2017, in the first Friday night game.

FMD.

No doubt, their home game so they take advantage of the crowd receipts?

  On 30/09/2016 at 00:06, SaberFang said:

Gil the Dill just insinuated we'll be playing the Bombers in Round 1 2017, in the first Friday night game.

FMD.

Not only first round of the season, but possibly first game of the year, prime time TV, and against their bunnies.

Ask and ye shall receive, indeed. It's enough to drive a man to religion.

Should be a cracking game, Friday night, big crowd, I'm looking forward to it.

 

Perhaps they might wait for the CAS finding.

Amazing ........ the AFL are a disgrace in this area.......... shows that it is still a business run by the ex players with the mentality and baggage that goes with it.

I would have more respect if the players put 10% of their salaries above base into a fund for past players now suffering from chronic back/knee issues etc. Perhaps the 12 Apostles could make a start !!!

  On 30/09/2016 at 00:06, SaberFang said:

Gil the Dill just insinuated we'll be playing the Bombers in Round 1 2017, in the first Friday night game.

FMD.

We get down and dirty. Just ripe for two new players on our side especially to prove their own integrity.

And if it happens we don't let up. The spirit of all our old players would thrive on something like this, rally them.

  On 30/09/2016 at 00:06, SaberFang said:

Gil the Dill just insinuated we'll be playing the Bombers in Round 1 2017, in the first Friday night game.

FMD.

Makes perfect sense to be honest. It's either us or port. Which teams are least likely to turn up with banners saying drug cheats, or start a similar chant? The teams with the most non-EFC players.

Aren't we due for a home game against this mob? Could be a bit of a windfall. I'm looking forward to seeing us beat them in our home jumper.

Yeah right.

  On 30/09/2016 at 00:06, SaberFang said:

Gil the Dill just insinuated we'll be playing the Bombers in Round 1 2017, in the first Friday night game.

FMD.

I'll repeat what I said this time last year, just adding a bit about the banned players returning. 

 I don't want us to play Essendon first game, in front of their crowd, when their returning players play their first game for the club.

They will be fanatical and very hard to beat.

I would much rather play them later in the year.

We owe them one. Timing sounds perfect to square that little item.

 

  On 30/09/2016 at 06:06, Dockett 32 said:

We owe them one. Timing sounds perfect to square that little item.

 

We have a terrible record in these sort of games. This is simply playing into the cheats hands.

They "chose" us because they expect to beat us. It's that simple.

Avoid at all costs.

 

oh, and you can put your house on it being an essedon home game. Another reason to say piz off.

Couple of our wins this year tell me we are on the rise. Taking on challenges and improving our record seems like a good idea to me. Why fear anyone?

They want to play us, great.  Let's kick their butts.  From a financial viewpoint it's potentially a million dollar pay day every other year ... bring it.  It's a fantastic initiative.

PJ would be all over this ... another locked-in fixture at the MCG that we don't have to sell off to the NT.  We should be brokering deals with the Blues, Cats & Hawks as well.  The Tigers & Pies are already taken care of (Anzac eve & the QB clash)

The more home games at the MCG against the big Victorian clubs the better.  Even if it's only every 2nd year.  What we should be doing is pushing for 2 games a year against the big Victorian clubs every season ... that would assure us of a number of big home game fixtures. 

  On 30/09/2016 at 06:28, Dockett 32 said:

Couple of our wins this year tell me we are on the rise. Taking on challenges and improving our record seems like a good idea to me. Why fear anyone?

Not a matter of fear but rather preference.