Where do you rate our midfield 2016

[rjay 24,066]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-12-29/the-afls-best-midfields-in-2016-where-does-your-team-rank

A recent article on the AFL website ranks at 15 for season 2016.

I think we will surprise a few in the coming season but with so many variables it's really hard to gauge where we sit in the pecking order.

How will Petracca come up, will Oliver be a presence in his first year, does Trengove come back let alone regain his form, how will Tyson come up in 2016, will Brayshaw stagnate or improve, how about Vanders, does Salem make the move into the midfield.

[pineapple dee 2,892]

I believe we will exceed this prediction and I truly hope I'm right. The thing about 2016 which will lift us up these rankings and up the ladder will be the improvement in service from big Maxy plus the time our talented youngsters have had under the tutelage of Roos Goodwin and Mc Cartney.   We get the feeling that our young emerging mids are really driven to succeed and leave their mark on the competition. I think all the ones mentioned have got the wherewithal to actually do it. Inshallah !!!!!

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I don't see how we can NOT do better than that prediction. Here's how i see it, in a highly subjective attempt to quantify it

**These ratings refer to a 'league' standard, ie the top 20 midfielders in the comp get a 10.. if you were injured a lot or didn't actually play in the midfield (or play at all) your rating goes down.. age/experience is not considered, just output**

Player - 2015 rating out of 10 -  potential rating 2016 out of 10

Jones - 9 - 9
Vince - 9 - 9
Viney - 7 - 9
Vandenberg - 5 - 8
Brayshaw - 5 - 8
Tyson - 4 - 9
Salem - 1 - 7
Trengove - 0 - 6
Petracca - 0 - 5
Oliver - 0 - 5

2015 total/avg: 41/4.1
2016 total/avg: 75/7.5 (if all goes well, which it won't!)

Now, logically speaking, an average of 5 should be about 9th best, and 7.5 should be about 5th best

Realistically we should be able to perform a bit above average

 

[whatwhat say what 19,758]

I rate us bottom third.

 

depth is still the biggest issue.

[CBDees 3,162]

1 hour ago, Curry & Beer said:

I don't see how we can NOT do better than that prediction. Here's how i see it, in a highly subjective attempt to quantify it

**These ratings refer to a 'league' standard, ie the top 20 midfielders in the comp get a 10.. if you were injured a lot or didn't actually play in the midfield (or play at all) your rating goes down.. age/experience is not considered, just output**

Player - 2015 rating out of 10 -  potential rating 2016 out of 10

Jones - 9 - 9
Vince - 9 - 9
Viney - 7 - 9
Vandenberg - 5 - 8
Brayshaw - 5 - 8
Tyson - 4 - 9
Salem - 1 - 7
Trengove - 0 - 6
Petracca - 0 - 5
Oliver - 0 - 5

2015 total/avg: 41/4.1
2016 total/avg: 75/7.5 (if all goes well, which it won't!)

Now, logically speaking, an average of 5 should be about 9th best, and 7.5 should be about 5th best

Realistically we should be able to perform a bit above average

 

I like your optimism in the rankings C&B, particularly for Vince and Jones, however I reckon that, on the other hand, both Petracca and Oliver will have a bigger impact than you predict and we also have Bugg, Kennedy, etc for those worrying about depth.  I am an optimist and can see us in the top half and the midfield being the key improvers who catapult us into the final eight.

[stuie 7,374]

1 hour ago, Curry & Beer said:

I don't see how we can NOT do better than that prediction. Here's how i see it, in a highly subjective attempt to quantify it

**These ratings refer to a 'league' standard, ie the top 20 midfielders in the comp get a 10.. if you were injured a lot or didn't actually play in the midfield (or play at all) your rating goes down.. age/experience is not considered, just output**

Player - 2015 rating out of 10 -  potential rating 2016 out of 10

Jones - 9 - 9
Vince - 9 - 9
Viney - 7 - 9
Vandenberg - 5 - 8
Brayshaw - 5 - 8
Tyson - 4 - 9
Salem - 1 - 7
Trengove - 0 - 6
Petracca - 0 - 5
Oliver - 0 - 5

2015 total/avg: 41/4.1
2016 total/avg: 75/7.5 (if all goes well, which it won't!)

Now, logically speaking, an average of 5 should be about 9th best, and 7.5 should be about 5th best

Realistically we should be able to perform a bit above average

 

So Jones and Vince both get 9/10 yet don't crack the AA squad? Viney is a 7, 2 below Jones, yet finished above him in the Bluey? vandenBerg has higher potential than Salem, and just as much as Brayshaw? Oliver wasn't even in the AFL in 2015, so you're bringing down your "before" average including someone who wasn't even eligible to play?

All seems a bit wonky....

 

[Slartibartfast 16,041]

Why isn't Stretch included in this conversation?

[rjay 24,066]

13 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Why isn't Stretch included in this conversation?

He is now...thanks 'Bob'.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

1 hour ago, CBDees said:

I like your optimism in the rankings C&B, particularly for Vince and Jones, however I reckon that, on the other hand, both Petracca and Oliver will have a bigger impact than you predict and we also have Bugg, Kennedy, etc for those worrying about depth.  I am an optimist and can see us in the top half and the midfield being the key improvers who catapult us into the final eight.

well 9/10 by my definition puts them somewhere between the 21st and the 40th best midfielders in the comp.. I think that's pretty fair. I also think there is no reason to suspect that either of them will have a worse year in 2016 than they did in 2015.

Giving truck and oliver a 5 is just like saying they will have year as good as Brayshaw's first - you can't ask for more than that, in fact it's probably asking a bit much.

Correct weight that Bugg, Kennedy, Stretch, possibly ANB and Melksham should also be in the conversation, but I would put them all outside the top ten midfielders at the moment (have to draw the line somewhere)

 

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

So Jones and Vince both get 9/10 yet don't crack the AA squad? Viney is a 7, 2 below Jones, yet finished above him in the Bluey? vandenBerg has higher potential than Salem, and just as much as Brayshaw? Oliver wasn't even in the AFL in 2015, so you're bringing down your "before" average including someone who wasn't even eligible to play?

All seems a bit wonky....

 

 

If you read my definition you would realise that you can get a 9/10 and be the 40th best midfielder in the league. Now tell me how many midfielders there are in the AA squad and how close both Jones/Vince would have been to making it. 9/10 is spot on. However, fair call on Jones/Viney, perhaps they should be both be an 8. Just quietly I think that BnF result is a touch inflated for Viney whereas Jones gets marked by everyone against his own previous successes. Salem and Brayshaw don't have the mature body of Vandenburg, which is his key strength, you can't expect them to perform better than him at this stage, particularly Salem who is having his first run in the midfield. Oliver, Petracca and Trengove did not contribute in '15. This is precisely my point, that whatever we get from them is a bonus - however technically you're right, maybe I should have left them out and made the 'before' column consist of the 3 of the blokes they are replacing - M.Jones, Bail, Michie, Toumpas and Cross?.. only the last one is any real loss so it doesn't change the thrust of the point too much. That thrust being that we have some seriously talented youngsters who are clearly going to get better (Brayshaw, Viney, Tyson, Salem) and 3 talented 'newbies' (Trengove, Petracca, Oliver all top 3 draft picks) that are pure net gains. On top of that, Viney+Vanders+Salem+Tyson missed 33 games between them last year so hopefully we get a bit luckier a run this time. Just saying it is hard to imagine our overall midfield performance NOT having a serious bump in quality. Another posted also mentioned the expected improvement of big Max, which will all of course benefit all of them.

 

[Deeoldfart 7,822]

In addition to the many good points made by previous posters, I also think that our team's evolution to a more offensive game style, and the coaching influence of Goodwin as he progressively assumes more responsibility, will determine how our midfield is rated over the course of 2016.  Personally, I think the 'scribes' will be rating our mids top 10 by season's end.

[stuie 7,374]

3 hours ago, Curry & Beer said:

 

If you read my definition you would realise that you can get a 9/10 and be the 40th best midfielder in the league. Now tell me how many midfielders there are in the AA squad and how close both Jones/Vince would have been to making it. 9/10 is spot on. However, fair call on Jones/Viney, perhaps they should be both be an 8. Just quietly I think that BnF result is a touch inflated for Viney whereas Jones gets marked by everyone against his own previous successes. Salem and Brayshaw don't have the mature body of Vandenburg, which is his key strength, you can't expect them to perform better than him at this stage, particularly Salem who is having his first run in the midfield. Oliver, Petracca and Trengove did not contribute in '15. This is precisely my point, that whatever we get from them is a bonus - however technically you're right, maybe I should have left them out and made the 'before' column consist of the 3 of the blokes they are replacing - M.Jones, Bail, Michie, Toumpas and Cross?.. only the last one is any real loss so it doesn't change the thrust of the point too much. That thrust being that we have some seriously talented youngsters who are clearly going to get better (Brayshaw, Viney, Tyson, Salem) and 3 talented 'newbies' (Trengove, Petracca, Oliver all top 3 draft picks) that are pure net gains. On top of that, Viney+Vanders+Salem+Tyson missed 33 games between them last year so hopefully we get a bit luckier a run this time. Just saying it is hard to imagine our overall midfield performance NOT having a serious bump in quality. Another posted also mentioned the expected improvement of big Max, which will all of course benefit all of them.

 

Couldn't agree more the midfield will be much improved moving forward. I'm just hesitant at the best of times to put too much emphasis on "potential". If potential got you premierships we'd be up to about number 17 by now, and then to put a number figure to it just seems a stretch to me.

Jones had a bit of a struggle year by his standards (due to injury) so I would not have had him anywhere near a 9/10, especially if you consider it's 1 point away from Fyfe.

I think Brayshaw had a better year then vB, so I expect him to put even more of a gap between them next year, and Salem coming off injury and being another high pick has far more potential in my book than vB. Don't get me wrong, vB is one of my 3 or 4 fave players, but I place a much higher ceiling on Brayshaw and Salem talent wise.

I reckon Petracca will play mostly forward too, so can't decide if I'd reckon him into the calculations.

 

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

43 minutes ago, stuie said:

Couldn't agree more the midfield will be much improved moving forward. I'm just hesitant at the best of times to put too much emphasis on "potential". If potential got you premierships we'd be up to about number 17 by now, and then to put a number figure to it just seems a stretch to me.

yep, we've been here before - this is all of course predicated on the hope we will actually bring our players into fruition instead of watching them fizzle out like we have done the last decade. As I said, quantifying it is a highly subjective task.

 

45 minutes ago, stuie said:

 

Jones had a bit of a struggle year by his standards (due to injury) so I would not have had him anywhere near a 9/10, especially if you consider it's 1 point away from Fyfe.

Fyfe is #1. As I said, 9/10 can be as low as #40, that's how many midfielders there are (200 for the 18 sides is about right). I'd say Jones will be about in the #25-#30 mark which he was in his 3 BnF years.

 

46 minutes ago, stuie said:

 

I think Brayshaw had a better year then vB, so I expect him to put even more of a gap between them next year, and Salem coming off injury and being another high pick has far more potential in my book than vB. Don't get me wrong, vB is one of my 3 or 4 fave players, but I place a much higher ceiling on Brayshaw and Salem talent wise.

I reckon Petracca will play mostly forward too, so can't decide if I'd reckon him into the calculations.

 

Brayshaw's year was a touch overrated - he was sterling in the first half but faded quite a bit, which is to be expected as a first year player who played 21 games. Really a 5/10 is more than fair, and it's a fantastic result for a debutant, it's league-average. No doubt about it though, he and Salem should definitely surpass him at SOME point (we expect them to be 10/10s of course, which I don't think Vanders will ever be) i'm just saying this year is too soon for that expectation. Fair call on Petracca, but if you compare him to Brayshaw's first year (who killed it) he has a bigger rig and now a year of working on his body, as well as the mental and emotional aspects of the game, as Hogan did, and we know how he went in his first fit year. He should be at least equal if not ahead of Brayshaw in his readiness to take it on from day one. Will be a joy to watch I'm sure.

Interested to see your rating numbers on the ten players 2015 vs 2016

[rjay 24,066]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

Couldn't agree more the midfield will be much improved moving forward. I'm just hesitant at the best of times to put too much emphasis on "potential". If potential got you premierships we'd be up to about number 17 by now, and then to put a number figure to it just seems a stretch to me.

Jones had a bit of a struggle year by his standards (due to injury) so I would not have had him anywhere near a 9/10, especially if you consider it's 1 point away from Fyfe.

I think Brayshaw had a better year then vB, so I expect him to put even more of a gap between them next year, and Salem coming off injury and being another high pick has far more potential in my book than vB. Don't get me wrong, vB is one of my 3 or 4 fave players, but I place a much higher ceiling on Brayshaw and Salem talent wise.

I reckon Petracca will play mostly forward too, so can't decide if I'd reckon him into the calculations.

 

Yep 'stuie', I also think Petracca will play more time forward with a bit of a run through the midfield. He will be an important part of the midfield depth though.

If he stays fit my money would be on him for the Rising Star in 2016...

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

10 minutes ago, rjay said:

Yep 'stuie', I also think Petracca will play more time forward with a bit of a run through the midfield. He will be an important part of the midfield depth though.

If he stays fit my money would be on him for the Rising Star in 2016...

as is the bookies

Christian Petracca (Melb) 6.50
Darcy Moore (Coll) 11.00
Toby McLean (WB) 14.00
Jacob Weitering (Carl) 14.00
Callum Mills (Syd) 15.00
Jacob Hopper (GWS) 15.00
Clayton Oliver (Melb) 15.00

 

[McQueen 17,864]

46 minutes ago, Curry & Beer said:

yep, we've been here before - this is all of course predicated on the hope we will actually bring our players into fruition instead of watching them fizzle out like we have done the last decade. As I said, quantifying it is a highly subjective task.

 

Fyfe is #1. As I said, 9/10 can be as low as #40, that's how many midfielders there are (200 for the 18 sides is about right). I'd say Jones will be about in the #25-#30 mark which he was in his 3 BnF years.

 

Brayshaw's year was a touch overrated - he was sterling in the first half but faded quite a bit, which is to be expected as a first year player who played 21 games. Really a 5/10 is more than fair, and it's a fantastic result for a debutant, it's league-average. No doubt about it though, he and Salem should definitely surpass him at SOME point (we expect them to be 10/10s of course, which I don't think Vanders will ever be) i'm just saying this year is too soon for that expectation. Fair call on Petracca, but if you compare him to Brayshaw's first year (who killed it) he has a bigger rig and now a year of working on his body, as well as the mental and emotional aspects of the game, as Hogan did, and we know how he went in his first fit year. He should be at least equal if not ahead of Brayshaw in his readiness to take it on from day one. Will be a joy to watch I'm sure.

Interested to see your rating numbers on the ten players 2015 vs 2016

Brayshaw displayed some real footy smarts last season which were coupled with class and grunt. For a first year player taken at number 3 it was overs in my opinion. We've learnt not to place too much expectation on the youngsters and the club are managing them accordingly. It Oliver has as good a first season as Brayshaw we should be very pleased.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

33 minutes ago, McQueen said:

Brayshaw displayed some real footy smarts last season which were coupled with class and grunt. For a first year player taken at number 3 it was overs in my opinion. We've learnt not to place too much expectation on the youngsters and the club are managing them accordingly. It Oliver has as good a first season as Brayshaw we should be very pleased.

did you actually read anything that I wrote

 

1 hour ago, Curry & Beer said:

Fair call on Petracca, but if you compare him to Brayshaw's first year (who killed it) he has a bigger rig and now a year of working on his body, as well as the mental and emotional aspects of the game, as Hogan did, and we know how he went in his first fit year. He should be at least equal if not ahead of Brayshaw in his readiness to take it on from day one. Will be a joy to watch I'm sure.

 

1 hour ago, Curry & Beer said:

 

Brayshaw's year was a touch overrated - he was sterling in the first half but faded quite a bit, which is to be expected as a first year player who played 21 games. Really a 5/10 is more than fair, and it's a fantastic result for a debutant, it's league-average.

 

6 hours ago, Curry & Beer said:

 

Giving truck and oliver a 5 is just like saying they will have year as good as Brayshaw's first - you can't ask for more than that, in fact it's probably asking a bit much.

 

[McQueen 17,864]

9 minutes ago, Curry & Beer said:

did you actually read anything that I wrote

 

 

 

No, not really.

But I agree with you. I think Garland will have his best year in 2016.

Edited December 30, 2015 by McQueen

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

53 minutes ago, McQueen said:

No, not really.

But I agree with you. I think Garland will have his best year in 2016.

didn't think so

solid contribution as usual

why do you even bother?

[McQueen 17,864]

1 hour ago, Curry & Beer said:

didn't think so

solid contribution as usual

why do you even bother?

Lighten up ya goose.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

9 hours ago, McQueen said:

Lighten up ya goose.

how about you stop posting garbage, contribute something to a footy discussion, then I'll 'lighten up'... deal?

then again 3 people liked it so that says something about the site huh

[Biffen 12,441]

I rate Salem as in our top 5 players despite the brevity of his career.

I think the Bluey will reflect this if he gets through a full season.

I expect us to finish 8th in 2016 so that would put our midfield in the Middle tier,roughly.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,989]

21 hours ago, stuie said:

So Jones and Vince both get 9/10 yet don't crack the AA squad? Viney is a 7, 2 below Jones, yet finished above him in the Bluey? vandenBerg has higher potential than Salem, and just as much as Brayshaw? Oliver wasn't even in the AFL in 2015, so you're bringing down your "before" average including someone who wasn't even eligible to play?

All seems a bit wonky....

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,989]

14 hours ago, McQueen said:

No, not really.

But I agree with you. I think Garland will have his best year in 2016.

I see Garland and Frost competing for 1 spot. 

[The Hallowed Turf 95]

We need Dom Tyson to get back to his 2014 form. I am referencing the club website here but he finished 2nd in our B&F and polled 11 Brownlow votes (3 times three votes in a losing side) in 2014. It's fair to say he stagnated last season but he has got the the talent. I am tipping a marked improvement in 2016.