You can trade if all agreeable

Here's hoping.....

Different players, but that's a very good analogy.

Different clubs more importantly

If I recall, Jack Viney, when interviewed pre draft, said given the choice he would take Toumpas over Wines. And Wines was his best mate.

He did say that. But considering his Father was involved in recruiting that year what do you think the likelihood was that he knew some time out we'd be taking Toumpas ?

Lucky guess ?

Different clubs more importantly

But Masten was crap for years ? Even in their superior development program. Clearly some players take longer.

I'm in the "recruiting was crap/development was crap" camp when it comes to the MFC. It's not an either-or.

I cant believe the positivity about this if its true.

The club has already held on to him too long and he should have been traded when there was still some doubt in the wider footy about whether he'll make it.

he was drafted as an outside mid but he has no pace, was recruited for his elite disposal but he panics under pressure, has not even a concept of defensive efforts or making your opponent accountable and spent the last few months struggling at vfl level.

Typical mfc - hold on to them until everyone is 100% certain that they cant play.

this is cale all over again and i will be proven right

There was even a recruiter who suggested to a good mate of mine that gws never intended in taking the toump and the 'slip through to us' was a ploy we fell for.

There was even a recruiter who suggested to a good mate of mine that gws never intended in taking the toump and the 'slip through to us' was a ploy we fell for.

I don't think we would have been stupid enough to base our drafting strategy on what another club does/says. We just got it wrong.

if he does indeed sign with us, it is important that we support him during these 2 years and give him every chance of making it. As someone mentioned earlier, it will be 2 years of either he shows he has got it, or not and we as supporters should be hoping he does and support him as such.

He's already been in the system long enough imo. Either we realise his trsde value is a bigger risk than he is staying ir we plan on trading him.

He's already been in the system long enough imo. Either we realise his trsde value is a bigger risk than he is staying ir we plan on trading him.

That's the thing, we've got to weigh up the possible value of trading him for what, a 3rd round pick? We then get a raw kid who we will have to put more years into to developing.

I feel there's more risk in starting again than giving him a couple more years.

he was drafted as an outside mid but he has no pace, was recruited for his elite disposal but he panics under pressure, has not even a concept of defensive efforts or making your opponent accountable and spent the last few months struggling at vfl level.

Yep. Depressing hey.

I think if he's going to make it it's as an inside mid. And I can't see him ever being hard enough at the ball.

Fingers crossed I'm wrong!

He's already been in the system long enough imo. Either we realise his trsde value is a bigger risk than he is staying ir we plan on trading him.

If his career to date hadn't been so injury interrupted I may agree. But he has not had clear runway to build confidence and show what he can do.

He may not be up to it after his next contract, but he will be taking the place of a kid ranked 60+ in a weak draft on low money so isn't much of a risk. There is far more downside keeping a known quality like Dawes or lumumba on big money imo (ignoring intangible benefits they may or may not bring to the playing group). Toumpas may yet turn out to be a good player.

One thing I am certain about Toump is that he gives 100% to try and be the best he can be. By now we know that he'll never be Ollie Wines but we have to move on and while he's giving 100% effort, get behind the kid, encourage him, no bronx cheers, and help him be the best he can be.

I cant believe the positivity about this if its true.

The club has already held on to him too long and he should have been traded when there was still some doubt in the wider footy about whether he'll make it.

he was drafted as an outside mid but he has no pace, was recruited for his elite disposal but he panics under pressure, has not even a concept of defensive efforts or making your opponent accountable and spent the last few months struggling at vfl level.

Typical mfc - hold on to them until everyone is 100% certain that they cant play.

this is cale all over again and i will be proven right

At least Cale could run!! Not always in the right direction but he could run non the less Toumpas has very little to offer at the moment other than we picked him

Cut our losses as this club lacks the ability to fully develop players with half the problems that Jimmy has.

There was even a recruiter who suggested to a good mate of mine that gws never intended in taking the toump and the 'slip through to us' was a ploy we fell for.

That just shows what complete utter crap you are espousing.

So GWS had the first 3 picks in the draft, didnt take Toumpas, and we gleefully grabbed him because he 'slipped through' to us?

Yeah that's believable.

Would it be fair to include the Toump in those who were scarred? He wasn't there during the tanking era but he suffered from the same mindset that that era was imbued with (i.e. play kids because they are 'kids' and being a high draft pick doesn't hurt either).
I hope there is a way out for the club and Jimmy if things go pear shaped that doesn't involve him getting delisted after two years.

At least Cale could run!! Not always in the right direction but he could run non the less Toumpas has very little to offer at the moment other than we picked him

Cut our losses as this club lacks the ability to fully develop players with half the problems that Jimmy has.

Away from Brendan Lade?

Just as well flip a coin:

Heads - he may improve given time etc

Tails - the low pick you would be able to get for him will turn out to be better.

The trouble with Tails is that it assumes another club rates him as a Heads.

But maybe they are better at predicting player success than us. So maybe just as well stick to Heads.

Toumps value is wholly ( imho ) as trade. He isnt going to be much chop with us as an outside player and isnt built to be an insider. Maybe he can play a different style elsewhere

We need more Bernies...less Dimitris

There was even a recruiter who suggested to a good mate of mine that gws never intended in taking the toump and the 'slip through to us' was a ploy we fell for.

That doesn't make any sense

They had the first 3 picks and they picked the best 3

How is that some sort of 'ploy we fell for'

Toumps value is wholly ( imho ) as trade. He isnt going to be much chop with us as an outside player and isnt built to be an insider. Maybe he can play a different style elsewhere

We need more Bernies...less Dimitris

I don't buy that. How much better did Morton, Gysberts and Blease become at a new club? If Toumpas is good enough, he can make it with us. If we play a more expansive game under Roos/Goodwin, I'm sure Toumpas would benefit.

The thing in his favour is that he's prepared to work hard and he's not soft. I'm sure these things were taken into account with our decision to re-sign him.

I don't buy that. How much better did Morton, Gysberts and Blease become at a new club? If Toumpas is good enough, he can make it with us. If we play a more expansive game under Roos/Goodwin, I'm sure Toumpas would benefit.

The thing in his favour is that he's prepared to work hard and he's not soft. I'm sure these things were taken into account with our decision to re-sign him.

I dont really care if he is , or isnt good enough /better even at another club. My caveat was 'Maybe" and thats for the new club to decide.

I dont see him adding much to us.

or we can wait another 2 years and then think...hmmm...that was another 2 years of "potential" etc

A mistake we're making as a club is hanging on to far TOO many for too long. We need brutality here and now. Need to sum up players as to to top 22 or not... We have far too many nqrs..

if we aspire to mediocrity...then by all means keep them....if we actually want to get somewhere.....time to trade up. Toumps might only be a deposit on a better player but thats what you need to do.

Would it be fair to include the Toump in those who were scarred? He wasn't there during the tanking era but he suffered from the same mindset that that era was imbued with (i.e. play kids because they are 'kids' and being a high draft pick doesn't hurt either).

I hope there is a way out for the club and Jimmy if things go pear shaped that doesn't involve him getting delisted after two years.

It didn't affect nor effect Jack Viney.

Toumpas even boarded with the Vineys for a period.

Plowman and O'Rourke have played less games and hardly shown anything more than the Toump.

Lets give our coaches time to develop him rather than the usual benchmark that high draft picks are unfairly measured against. Roos said on 360 on Monday night that AFL is probably the only elite sporting competition in the world that has a dedicated group of coaches working purely on development of the clubs players.

Like everything within the game, development methods are evolving.

If Toumpas is re-signed for a another two years it obviously means two things:

1. Roos and Goodwin think he can cut it at AFL level.

2. They can see a role for him in the game plan moving forward.

I dont really care if he is , or isnt good enough /better even at another club. My caveat was 'Maybe" and thats for the new club to decide.

I dont see him adding much to us.

or we can wait another 2 years and then think...hmmm...that was another 2 years of "potential" etc

A mistake we're making as a club is hanging on to far TOO many for too long. We need brutality here and now. Need to sum up players as to to top 22 or not... We have far too many nqrs..

if we aspire to mediocrity...then by all means keep them....if we actually want to get somewhere.....time to trade up. Toumps might only be a deposit on a better player but thats what you need to do.

And how many good players have nominated Melbourne as their destination of choice in recent years? If other clubs were banging our door down to acquire Toumpas, of course I'd do a trade. But that's not likely, so let's try and develop him, rather than using a late pick in a shallow draft.

how do we really know whats about to happen at the trade merrygo round ?

Theres always a surprise or two as to might end up with us. I see no reason that trend wont continue.

We just need able bodied players...who can role fill. Might not be supermarket top shlelf names...just good week in week outers etc.

I think Roos might still have some clout in attractiing players....I fervently hope so.