Roos vs Neeld - The Facts

[Ethan Tremblay 28,833]

The players hated Neeld.

[Gator 16,921]

I think I know why the OP "never posts".

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,641]

I think we've improved dramatically under Roos.

Let's use the the Carlton losses of 2012, 2013 and 2015 as an excellent case study:

Under Neeld we lost to Carlton by 54 points in 2012 and 61 points in 2013.

However, under Roos we put in a dramatic improvement and lost by an honourable and courageous 23 points.

Now if that's not improvement, I don't know what is.

[Chris 2,892]

Georgiou was a filler. Who else are you going to get with a can of drink and a pack of ciggies as pay?

Anyway, Roos and Neeld aren't all that dissimilar. Similar vision, similar intend to gut and change the team, similar defensive mindset, similar standards of accountability for the playing group.

Roos just has the resume. I doubt that had Neeld remained as coach up until now we'd be any worse than where we sit. Dare I say that the stability might have seen us actually rise above where we are now.

The one things Roos has that Neeld doesn't is the ability to manage people and the players. Neeld lost the players almost before they played a game for him because he came in with far too large a sledgehammer, Roos isn't that Naive and still has the players (I think?)

I am not sure we would still actually be a club if Neeld was still coach.

[Little Richard 5,943]

The one things Roos has that Neeld doesn't is the ability to manage people and the players. Neeld lost the players almost before they played a game for him because he came in with far too large a sledgehammer, Roos isn't that Naive and still has the players (I think?)

I am not sure we would still actually be a club if Neeld was still coach.

Exactly. Roos comes across as far more balanced than Neeld, in terms of building relationships with the players and nurturing their fragile minds when he first came to the club. Now he appears to be much tougher, and rightly so. Neeld was just all bluster from the beginning by all reports.

[dee-luded 2,958]

The players hated Neeld.

Any players would hate someone who has come in to break up they're party. They were loving it, & the culture was just terrible... forcing people to be honest & accountable when its been fun time at the zoo for longer than they can remember is a tough job.

standing on toes is part of that job, & shows who is onside for improving the club, & who are spoiling for a fight. this showed the first for clearing out. & those who need some honesty..... Jones was fully onboard, as his improvement seems to show at this time of our upheaval. watts was in need of some truth, as was gys, gawn, & many, many others...

...... the thing is, if Moloney, Green, & other seniors leading this drunken ship were still there at end of 2014; I reckon Roosy would have refused to take on the job at all. too hard to clear off loved players, as well as another 3 Yrs of pain following.

Neeldy took the pain & the accusations with it, started the clear & burn, & tidy up after that guy fawkes night.

Roosy in turn, did arrive, took this dirtiest job of the AFL, & is doing a solid job. we are now starting to learn the foundations of playing winning AFL footy, accountable pressure footy, getting it back into our culture once again after losing it somewhere in the 90's.

once accountability is in-bedded back in our DNA, the other parts of the equation can then be added on top. the attack & flair is the topping, on the main meal.

[jnrmac 19,506]

Roos doesn't know how to get the players fired up to start a game. What is that? How can we repeat the same thing 3 weeks running by being 8 goals to 1 down?

I assume it will happen again this week so is likely 4 weeks running. Why are the players giving no effort?

When the coach virtually admits he doesn't know what is causing it and blames the negativity of supporters we have a major issue.

[praha 10,574]

Yes we would.

Roos has the name, which allowed him to land a few deals and players that we otherwise would not have been able to. It also allowed us to limp to 4 wins in 2014 without attracting too much attention to another poor season.

You may be right that they aren't too dissimilar (I'd actually agree), but Roos has the industry on his side, which has really been invaluable.

You mean like Mitch Clark and Chris Dawes?

You know, I don't think Neeld was a good coach, I just pointed out that what he was trying to do was not all that different to what Roos is trying to do, and that any progress we've up to this point is merely normalisation, not necessarily "improvement": with the list we've got, we'd probably be in the same situation irrespective of who is coaching us.

That's not to say our curve of improvement from here out won't be better under Roos.

Edited August 28, 2015 by praha

[Chris 2,892]

Any players would hate someone who has come in to break up they're party. They were loving it, & the culture was just terrible... forcing people to be honest & accountable when its been fun time at the zoo for longer than they can remember is a tough job.

standing on toes is part of that job, & shows who is onside for improving the club, & who are spoiling for a fight. this showed the first for clearing out. & those who need some honesty..... Jones was fully onboard, as his improvement seems to show at this time of our upheaval. watts was in need of some truth, as was gys, gawn, & many, many others...

...... the thing is, if Moloney, Green, & other seniors leading this drunken ship were still there at end of 2014; I reckon Roosy would have refused to take on the job at all. too hard to clear off loved players, as well as another 3 Yrs of pain following.

Neeldy took the pain & the accusations with it, started the clear & burn, & tidy up after that guy fawkes night.

Roosy in turn, did arrive, took this dirtiest job of the AFL, & is doing a solid job. we are now starting to learn the foundations of playing winning AFL footy, accountable pressure footy, getting it back into our culture once again after losing it somewhere in the 90's.

once accountability is in-bedded back in our DNA, the other parts of the equation can then be added on top. the attack & flair is the topping, on the main meal.

There are many ways to skin a cat, and Neeld picked the wrong one by a mile. That was his biggest issue.

[Chris 2,892]

You mean like Mitch Clark and Chris Dawes?

They were both from Neeld, not Roos.

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

Neeld lost the players before his first game

with his "Little Table" & "Naughty Chair" that he set up in his office....

[Dr. Mubutu 697]

You mean like Mitch Clark and Chris Dawes?

You know, I don't think Neeld was a good coach, I just pointed out that what he was trying to do was not all that different to what Roos is trying to do, and that any progress we've up to this point is merely normalisation, not necessarily "improvement": with the list we've got, we'd probably be in the same situation irrespective of who is coaching us.

That's not to say our curve of improvement from here out won't be better under Roos.

Deals are not only players.

There are sponsorship deals made that I have no doubt would not have been made without Roos as coach. Bernie might not have come over if Goodwin was not the coach-in-waiting (again, part of Roos being here).

Also, I don't think anybody else would have laid pick 2 on the line. But that's just me.

They were both from Neeld, not Roos.

That was his point, Chris.

[Chris 2,892]

That was his point, Chris.

No it wasn't, he was responding to a point saying that Roos has a name in the industry and as such could bring in decent players. He responded with Dawes and Clark.

[stuie 7,374]

No it wasn't, he was responding to a point saying that Roos has a name in the industry and as such could bring in decent players. He responded with Dawes and Clark.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

There are many ways to skin a cat, and Neeld picked the wrong one by a mile. That was his biggest issue.

Did you mean Shannon Byrnes or Tom Gillies?

[Bonkers 918]

Roos doesn't know how to get the players fired up to start a game. What is that? How can we repeat the same thing 3 weeks running by being 8 goals to 1 down?

I assume it will happen again this week so is likely 4 weeks running. Why are the players giving no effort?

When the coach virtually admits he doesn't know what is causing it and blames the negativity of supporters we have a major issue.

This is also the issue for me. I realise there has been improvement this year & in general I would say we are tracking in the right direction. Currently the playing group seem to switch off before & during games. The performances have been like a yo-yo all season. The mentality of the playing group & process of becoming winners is just as big an issue as the poor kicking skills & speed of the list. Supporters shouldn't have to accept being belted 8 goals to 1 in the first quarter to a bottom of the ladder team. If the club don't like the negativity of the supporters when we put the heat on them they need to harden up. Ultimately we will always be the stakeholders of the club & they are accountable to us, not themselves. In my opinion one of our biggest failings as a supporter base isn't that we are negative its that we have been to accepting of the [censored] dished up to us by the people in charge of the club. Maybe the wheel is finally turning & supporters have had enough, about time I say. It's time to raise the standards & expectations of what we accept as a supporter base. If the club keep dishing up crap like they have in the last few weeks what more can they expect from loyal fans who are invested in the club but anger?

[praha 10,574]

They were both from Neeld, not Roos.

The response was that Roos brought it players and attracted people to the club. Granted the club wouldn't have been able to land the same sort of deals that Roos has in his time, but Neeld still brought in Clark and Dawes, for better or worse. He also landed Hogan. He saw a hole up forward and tried to plug it. He drafted midfielders (again, for better or worse). He tried to bring in experience for the lack that we had. That was my point in saying that what Neeld was trying to do is not all that different from what Roos is trying to do. Actually, they were/are trying to fix the exact some deficiencies in the squad.

[Earl Hood 5,875]

Just for completeness, can you tell me what the following do? (and apologies, I didn't stop reading)

Football Department

- Paul Roos - Senior Coach

- Todd Viney - Manager Player Personnel

- Josh Mahoney - Manager Football Operations

- Simon Goodwin - Senior Assistant Coach

- Ben Mathews - Midfield Coach

- Jade Rawlings - Backline Coach

- Daniel McPherson - Forward line Coach

- Brendan McCartney - Devlopment and Strategy Coach

- Brett Allison - Head of Development

- Brad Miller - Development Coach

- Shannon Byrnes - Welfare and Development Coach

- Justin Plapp - Casey Scorpions Coach

- Jason Taylor - National Recruting Manager

- Kelly O’Donnell - Pro scouting

- Tim Lamb - National Recruiting Officer

- David Misson - Elite Performance Manager

- Robert Jackson - Strength & Conditioning Manager

- Charles Allen - Load Manager

- Alex Sakadjian - Sport Science Co-ordinator & Rehabilitation Coach

Now if you're talking about the Westminster system of "ultimate responsibility" then it's not Roos but probably McLardy/Bartlett. If you think the coach knows more about draftees than the recruiting manager you live in an alternate universe.

It's a team effort Miracle. Your premise is wrong but you've nailed it with your conclusion. Roos is a better coach than Neeld and we are in a better spot than we were 2 years ago. Congrats.

The question of course is "are we where we should be"? If you can show me the "facts" about that I'd appreciate it.

What does Misson do with his time, Bob? He hasn't got much to manage, he must help out in admin as well.

[Slartibartfast 16,127]

I think I know why the OP "never posts".

I'm waiting for the sequel "Roos v Denis Jones - the Facts"

It will make another riveting read.

[Slartibartfast 16,127]

What does Misson do with his time, Bob? He hasn't got much to manage, he must help out in admin as well.

That's very cruel Hood, lets hope he's run off his feet in a few years time!

[Redleg 38,559]

So who is responsible for the 8 goal to 1 deficits we have seen in the last 3 weeks?

That is the thing that is upsetting so many Dees fans.

Otherwise agree that Roos is improving the list and hopefully continues to do so.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,480]

The more I think about it the more I feel that our improvement this year has been close to nothing to do with coaching. Its more to do with a natural development in some of the younger players and general improvement in the players available as we have made better list decisions. We still make the same errors. The older players Jetta and Gawn aside have really not shown clear benefits, they have either plateau'd or regressed. Geelong aside I struggle to think of when we have outsmarted a team tactically.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Roos was never going to lead us to a Premiership, he was meant to point us in the direction out of the s hit.
Believe it or not we are facing the right way now. We beat some teams this year that are/were pushing for finals, we haven't done that in quite a while. We also beat some sides that were never beat: pies, geelong, dogs (forget the last game).
But the timing of Goodwin taking over will be sublime. Roos points us in the right direction, Goodwin will take us there.

Edited August 28, 2015 by The Song Formerly Known As

[Demonsone 1,741]

Georgiou was a filler. Who else are you going to get with a can of drink and a pack of ciggies as pay?

Anyway, Roos and Neeld aren't all that dissimilar. Similar vision, similar intend to gut and change the team, similar defensive mindset, similar standards of accountability for the playing group.

Roos just has the resume. I doubt that had Neeld remained as coach up until now we'd be any worse than where we sit. Dare I say that the stability might have seen us actually rise above where we are now.

If Neeld was still coach we would be still getting smashed.... Though like Roos inherited a basket case list with poor development & poor culture...

[Demonsone 1,741]

Why are we bothering with this post.... Though I did already post a reply!

Club is chalk & cheese from both on & off the field!

This was never going to be a quick fix....

Edited August 28, 2015 by Hogan2014