Watched Dawes intensively on Sat and and came away wondering what the hell he gives us. He can't mark unless he's a mile clear and it's on his chest, his opponent isn't afraid to run off him, he picks the wrong option again and again, He's not a target, he's not a presence, and he's not a goal kicker. Give me TMac kicking points over Dawes any round.

It's a contrary view, I know, but I think Dawes, flawed as he is, is a better team player than he's given credit for. I think he's the only forward who works really hard for the whole game and knows where to lead to. We notice he misses lots of marks because he gets into position to take them more often than anyone else. He's generally a good kick for goal, too.

Though Tommy occasionally stuffs up, he quite often does very accurate, quite long, pinpoint passes out of defence.

I wouldn't write him off as a swing forward based on yesterday's kicking for goal.

I think McDonald's unorthodox kicking style makes his mistakes more apparent, but overall, I don't think the results of his kicking are any worse than Garland, Grimes, Cross, Viney or many others.

People may be forgetting that we have Frost. He is also a pretty dodgy kick for goal but better than TMac.

So, who's a better kick - Frost or McDonald? To be honest, I haven't seen enough of Frost to be sure, but what I've seen so far suggests that Frost's kicking style looks more orthodox than McDonald, but I'm not sure it's any more effective. I still like Frost as that tall, big bodied defender that we need and I'm not averse to the idea of trialling McDonald in the Blicavs role. I think he'd be a better second ruck than any of Dawes, Pedersen or Frost because of his ability to get to more contests.

It's a contrary view, I know, but I think Dawes, flawed as he is, is a better team player than he's given credit for. I think he's the only forward who works really hard for the whole game and knows where to lead to. We notice he misses lots of marks because he gets into position to take them more often than anyone else. He's generally a good kick for goal, too.

Sorry, don't agree.

He can work as hard as he likes but he doesn't get the ball and the opposition expose his lack of mobility creating scoring opportunities on the rebound.

Sorry, don't agree.

He can work as hard as he likes but he doesn't get the ball and the opposition expose his lack of mobility creating scoring opportunities on the rebound.

All you have to do is play him close.

The only time he gets the ball is when the defender gives him space.

Play him close and hard and he is not worth a bumper.

We can play Tmac as a defender up forward on Dawes. With his mobility, he can lead Dawes up the ground to the ball and create space for Hogan, and if the ball is bombed in as per usual Tommy can defend against Dawes' attempts to split the contest and spoil toward one of our crumbers.

than we have 2 talls playing for the opposition. its hard enough to win games now.

That did seem to affect a few others AF

Remember to kick a goal first you have to get the ball.

'He kicked as many in one quarter as Hogan ( 1 .0 ) , Vandenberg( 1.1 ) , Tyson( 1.0 ), Howe ( 1.1) Garlett (1. 2) and more than Dawes (0.3)

Did in four quarters.

How can it Makes us worse?

As Robbo's article in today's HUN says almost every statt says we are the same as 2014 i.e. going no where fast or slow for that matter.

you actually read slobbo, od?

boy but you are glutton for punishment

Watched Dawes intensively on Sat and and came away wondering what the hell he gives us. He can't mark unless he's a mile clear and it's on his chest, his opponent isn't afraid to run off him, he picks the wrong option again and again, He's not a target, he's not a presence, and he's not a goal kicker. Give me TMac kicking points over Dawes any round.

I'm watched Dawes closely too. I have been a bit of a fan but now realize that he does so very little most of the time.

Tommy McD going forward was (almost) an inspired move. Had he kicked straight we may well have won. (I know one could say that of a lot of our forwards too).

But he provided a contest and held some marks.

Been saying this since 2013.. He offers us nothing. Poor Brad Miller use to cop some stick on here but at least he could take a mark and provide a good option yet this bloke gets off scott free. He is now far too predictable that defenders don't even pay him the respect because they know it will just bounce off his hands.

He has been a major flop and still filthy we gave up a second round draft pick (Tim Broomhead) Just another Steven Armstrong Mitch Morton school of premership players that got made to look good around a strong team.

Need to trade him off at years end and hope we land a 4th round draft pick for him.

Been a major major disappointment. For a key forward that we paid 500k a year his return so far this year is 5 goals in 7 games.. I rest my case.

I totally agree re the Miller comment - Brad would, IMO, be a better player in this team that has at least a bit of a midfield that Dawes. He held marks for starters.

Properly coached in a team with a modicum of a game plan

David Neitz says "Hi"...!

Fact is, Tom made a real difference when he went forward. I'd like to see it persisted with (with LOTS of goal-kicking parctice during the week). Replace in down back with Fitzy. (And drop Howe to make way for Fitzy in the side...)

Worth a try...

Spot on

you actually read slobbo, od?

boy but you are glutton for punishment

On this occasion he is dead right and has the stat's to support his argument.

Tom provided run and a target that no-one else had been able to provide. His field kicking was pretty good. His kicking for goal was no worse than many others.

Jesse Hogan's and Dawes inability to run into space and provide a target was disappointing . Most of the time, our forwards were immobilized except for Tom's efforts. I don't particularly want to see him up forward but he gave a hell of a lot more than his team mates.

On this occasion he is dead right and has the stat's to support his argument.

There is more to it than stats. While much of what he says is true, the situation is changed because the playing list has changed a lot, so we can now at least have some hope of improvement in time rather that hoping for individual saviours. Did any of our previous teams beat Geelong at Geelong? Did we get thrashed by a desperate, though admittedly junior Essendon, or did we lose in a close game partly because of bad kicking - something that afflicts even good clubs from time to time. I don't recall a loss in previous years like the one to St Kilda. It is facile to say we have found a new way to lose, but we didn't even get to that position in previous years to be able to find that new way to stuff-up. I also can't recall having to play against 3 top teams in a row in previous years. Our previous teams would have emerged from that whammy with an ensuing string of 100 point defeats by every team in the league.

Sure there is a lot to be worried about. So while the stats don't look good, I still feel more confident than before. [censored] off and disappointed, but more confident.

Brisbane lack a true and established forward target. If Tommy Mac was to be given a week to play forward, it may as well be now. Maybe Fitzy can brought in to fill in down back.

Edited July 13, 201510 yr by Demon Jack

Why not try Dawes down back and McDonald up forward "..just swap them, Dawes doesn't have to mark or kick goals just get to contests and punch, could work.

Why not try Dawes down back and McDonald up forward "..just swap them, Dawes doesn't have to mark or kick goals just get to contests and punch, could work.

I agree I am sure he would make a good job of it at Princess Park on Saturday

Why not try Dawes down back and McDonald up forward "..just swap them, Dawes doesn't have to mark or kick goals just get to contests and punch, could work.

He doesn't get to the contests, that's part of the problem. He gets run off way to easily, much better to hide him at Casey.

Garland has played well up forward in the past. It might be worth a try again.

I dont think so

Prefer hogan watts and Fitzpatrick or frost

I dont think so

Prefer hogan watts and Fitzpatrick or frost

I doubt we will see him before 2016 DR

I doubt we will see him before 2016 DR

Old dee, I'm going to put in request to Demonland to reserve you a new name, just in case you get sick of your current one. I'm thinking of asking them to reserve "Pessimistic dee" for you. OK?

let me think about this.

Tom Mac goes forward has 4 shots at goal in 17 min, kick a goal to put us within 2pts & for the 1st time in the game look like we could pinch it.

His kicking is inaccurate on a day when nobody is kicking well & the weather is poor,1st time forward nervous & with limited goal kicking practise.

So thats at least 4 times the ball was not brought to ground by Dawes & rebounded to opposition forward line.

Any many here are suggesting this should never be tried again.

Rather see him as a backman, he is capable of doing an incredible job.

He needs some private lessons on his kicking technique, if he can improve this he'll become a massive weaopon.

Frost seems to be the missing link here that third tall who can run and play forward or back.

It would be very interesting to see us line up next year with Fitz and Frost as our tall defenders and Hogan and MacDonald key forward. Both are great endurance athletes, so if they could work out their running patterns to mesh properly they'd be a nightmare for their opponents. Even better if a few of our project players were to kick on and cement a spot around them.

I am starting to think he's worth a try up forward. What have we to lose? Playing up forward might give him some incentive to sharpen up his kicking. Chuck Dawes down back and let's see how he goes there. Has he ever played there? Can't be worse than what he is now.

Edited July 13, 201510 yr by america de cali

Old dee, I'm going to put in request to Demonland to reserve you a new name, just in case you get sick of your current one. I'm thinking of asking them to reserve "Pessimistic dee" for you. OK?

I was positive last week and predicted a win.

Hmm that did not quite work out.

Maybe it was my positivity last saturday that was the problem

No I have this faint feeling it the guys on the feild that are the problem.

Edited July 13, 201510 yr by old dee

More run is needed out of the backline than the forward line in modern footy. It baffles me that people think we should put our fittest players in the forward line.

If this is the case why why why hasn't Nick "I'll run forever" Reiwoldt been moved back to Centre Half Back, then??

If this is the case why why why hasn't Nick "I'll run forever" Reiwoldt been moved back to Centre Half Back, then??

Because he's always been a forward and can kick goals.