Can't drop Howe. We need as many players demanding of a defender as possible because we are completely inept at countering the loose man. If you drop Howe and put in some bandaid filler forward, you're just going to make it easier for them to get out.

Anyway, Saturday was the worst "team" display I've seen this team play under Roos. Brisbane were good yesterday. They're paying $9.50 at 40+. Getting on the Lions. I have zero confidence.

We'll finish last if we drop this.

This is exactly the same situation as last year. I can just foresee it. It's in the second chapter of the Melbourne Demons Handbook (right after the chapter of losing to a bottom-of-the-barrel side and letting an inaccurate spud forward kick 5.0).

There were moments on Saturday where the players seriously looked like they hated one another, like they had no trust or interest in one another. Hogan seems to hate his teammates. Jones goes through the motions. Dunn and McDonald are deers in headlights. Dawes is a $600k decoy. Garlett provides good pressure but poor delivery must be frustrating him. Howe is an overrated pretty boy.

Our leaders are shocking. Brisbane by 10 goals. Bookmark it.

Edited July 12, 201510 yr by praha

Christensen was absolute crud tonight, but I'm sure we'll play him into form based on what happened with Cloke and Spudiher. Sounds like we just need to give our forwards a chance, rather than handballing around in circles through the middle.

"Take the first [censored] option!" as Brayshaw emphatically told Jones.

Wow. Its a real stretch to call him that. Most nicknames have some form of relevance - history, family connection, poetic licence, physical characteristic, etc. But, wow. Where's this come from?

(Mind you, I'm old school conservative and wish all Demonlanders would call clubs, AFL officials and all players by their true names or accepted nicknames. I find it tiresome seeing half-@rsed derivatives which are somehow considered to be witty or apposite. Rant over, but thanks for reading...if you got this far).

I thought we were a much better chance to beat Essendon than we were to beat Brisbane. I just don't think we match up well against the Lions, notwithstanding their lack of key position players.

I would play Spencer over Dawes - at least he will make a contest and crash some packs.

Grimes surely has to play, most likely ahead of Stretch.

I'd be happy to drop Lumumba too. I'm sick of him trailing his opponent in by 5 metres, and sending out wild hospital handpasses every time he gets the ball. I would bring in Fitzpatrick to play on McStay, which would free McDonald up to do what he wants.

Harmes would need to do much better to survive another week.

I would bring in Fitzpatrick to play on McStay, which would free McDonald up to do what he wants.

Its a good idea and I wonder why Fitzy was ever dropped to be honest. He played 3 games and towelled up Tom Boyd and Jesse White.. cant remember how he went in the Port game but he definitely played 2/3 very good games.

Seems he was sent back to Casey for that brain fade in the goalsquare on Queens Birthday. Cant see any other reason as he was doing very well as a defender at AFL level.

B Garland, Fitzpatrick, Jetta
HB Lumumba, Dunn, Grimes
C Cross, Vince, Watts
HF Brayshaw, Hogan, Howe
F Vandenberg, T McDonald, Garlett
Fol Gawn, Viney, N Jones
Int Tyson, Kennedy-Harris, M Jones, Stretch (sub)

In: Fitzpatrick, Grimes, M Jones
Out: Dawes, Neal-Bullen, Harmes

• I think our forward line is too slow when the ball hits the deck with both Dawes and Hogan.
• Fitzpatrick needs to be given a bigger run at playing as a key defender and it is worth trialling McDonald forward again. Fitzpatrick should also be well suited to play on Martin or Leuenberger.
• Grimes provides a bit more run out of defence than Cross, who should tag Beams.
• I think we missed the run and carry of M Jones. I think he provides more to the side at the moment than Neal-Bullen and Harmes.

Yep, they are very quick as well. We can't (but inevitably will) turn the ball over so much. These guys will kill us.

Yep. They're a 6 to 8 goal better side than us at the moment, as are St.Kilda. 3 weeks ago, these were pencilled in as wins. Now, I can't see where our 5th win is going to come from. We are THAT bad.

Its a good idea and I wonder why Fitzy was ever dropped to be honest. He played 3 games and towelled up Tom Boyd and Jesse White.. cant remember how he went in the Port game but he definitely played 2/3 very good games.

Seems he was sent back to Casey for that brain fade in the goalsquare on Queens Birthday. Cant see any other reason as he was doing very well as a defender at AFL level.

Yep. It would seem some players get dropped for one poor effort or game and others get a pass week in week out. Can't do their confidence any good if they can't make mistakes and learn from them. Going to play risk free footy and we have to take risks to compete (IMHO). Watched Fitzy for the last two weeks and think he has earned a recall. If the selectors are fair dinkum then Stretch, JKH and Harmes all go out. Also think playing Gus this week was a mistake. Hopefully he bounces back this week.

Can't drop Howe. We need as many players demanding of a defender as possible because we are completely inept at countering the loose man. If you drop Howe and put in some bandaid filler forward, you're just going to make it easier for them to get out.

Anyway, Saturday was the worst "team" display I've seen this team play under Roos. Brisbane were good yesterday. They're paying $9.50 at 40+. Getting on the Lions. I have zero confidence.

We'll finish last if we drop this.

This is exactly the same situation as last year. I can just foresee it. It's in the second chapter of the Melbourne Demons Handbook (right after the chapter of losing to a bottom-of-the-barrel side and letting an inaccurate spud forward kick 5.0).

There were moments on Saturday where the players seriously looked like they hated one another, like they had no trust or interest in one another. Hogan seems to hate his teammates. Jones goes through the motions. Dunn and McDonald are deers in headlights. Dawes is a $600k decoy. Garlett provides good pressure but poor delivery must be frustrating him. Howe is an overrated pretty boy.

Our leaders are shocking. Brisbane by 10 goals. Bookmark it.

Or we might just play someone that has a go and chases his opponent. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think Matt Jones offers more as a defensive forward than Howe.

Yep. They're a 6 to 8 goal better side than us at the moment, as are St.Kilda. 3 weeks ago, these were pencilled in as wins. Now, I can't see where our 5th win is going to come from. We are THAT bad.

Rubbish.

Yep. They're a 6 to 8 goal better side than us at the moment, as are St.Kilda. 3 weeks ago, these were pencilled in as wins. Now, I can't see where our 5th win is going to come from. We are THAT bad.

6-8?!

Have we forgotten the good footy we can play? That Geelong game wasn't that long ago was it... The issue is our consistency. Of course we can beat Brisbane if we are on.

Its a good idea and I wonder why Fitzy was ever dropped to be honest. He played 3 games and towelled up Tom Boyd and Jesse White.. cant remember how he went in the Port game but he definitely played 2/3 very good games.

Seems he was sent back to Casey for that brain fade in the goalsquare on Queens Birthday. Cant see any other reason as he was doing very well as a defender at AFL level.

Fitzpatrick was injured

6-8?!

Have we forgotten the good footy we can play? That Geelong game wasn't that long ago was it... The issue is our consistency. Of course we can beat Brisbane if we are on.

And I think after two shithouse weeks, we will be.

6-8?!

Have we forgotten the good footy we can play? That Geelong game wasn't that long ago was it... The issue is our consistency. Of course we can beat Brisbane if we are on.

The Geelong game was an anomaly, like the Adelaide game last year.

Reality is that we can be "on" mentality, but if the other team also has a good day, we fold and lose. It's like clockwork. I just don't think we're in any position to suggest that we pressured those teams into having a bad day. I just think they had bad days and we capitalised. By the looks of it we're still a bottom 4 side and I predict that Brisbane on the weekend will be the final nail in the coffin for the season. From a list perspective, we have certainly improved our positioning as far as long-term planning goes. But as a team, we haven't really improved. I actually think we're playing worse team footy this year than we were last year. I just don't think that a good team can have such a large disparity between its best and worst, which makes me think that our good wins are more about the other team having off days than it is us playing well.

I'm sure a few here will disagree, but the body language and response from the playing group on Saturday was pretty discouraging. It looked like they hated each other and didn't want to be out there. And they still only lost by 9 points. Says to me that we have a bunch of talented, egotistical school boys pretending to be a team.

Kind of like amateur football. One week you beat a similar or decent-placed team, you're all about and about. Then the next week you play the top team and get pumped by 200 points. Not quite the same but the disparity is similar in terms of how we play as a team. One week you're all good mates, the next week everyone is just terrible, can't string together passes, cbf getting into space, yelling at each other on the pitch.

Like watching division 3 Thomastown seniors.

Edited July 13, 201510 yr by praha

Can't drop Howe. We need as many players demanding of a defender as possible because we are completely inept at countering the loose man.

. Dawes is a $600k decoy.

These are good points. If they're just going to stand around, we should get Jeremy to just stand around at about 40m on the left half-forward flank boundary-line and Chris on the right (where they have each kicked them from before) to occupy two defenders and instruct them to spoil over the line for a forward stoppage if it comes their way and to then quickly drop a kick behind play.

Yep. It would seem some players get dropped for one poor effort or game and others get a pass week in week out. Can't do their confidence any good if they can't make mistakes and learn from them. Going to play risk free footy and we have to take risks to compete (IMHO). Watched Fitzy for the last two weeks and think he has earned a recall. If the selectors are fair dinkum then Stretch, JKH and Harmes all go out. Also think playing Gus this week was a mistake. Hopefully he bounces back this week.

Would like to see Fitzy back in for an extended run as a key defender. Harmes I think should get at least another week, he did some good things but struggled for positioning and adapting to the level which is how I saw ANB's first run.

Gus struggled and could have done with a week off.

Would like to see Fitzy back in for an extended run as a key defender. Harmes I think should get at least another week, he did some good things but struggled for positioning and adapting to the level which is how I saw ANB's first run.

Gus struggled and could have done with a week off.

To add to your comment rjay at this point JKH is not an AFL level Talent.

Back to Casey for the foreseeable future for mine

The Geelong game was an anomaly, like the Adelaide game last year.

Reality is that we can be "on" mentality, but if the other team also has a good day, we fold and lose. It's like clockwork. I just don't think we're in any position to suggest that we pressured those teams into having a bad day. I just think they had bad days and we capitalised. By the looks of it we're still a bottom 4 side and I predict that Brisbane on the weekend will be the final nail in the coffin for the season. From a list perspective, we have certainly improved our positioning as far as long-term planning goes. But as a team, we haven't really improved. I actually think we're playing worse team footy this year than we were last year. I just don't think that a good team can have such a large disparity between its best and worst, which makes me think that our good wins are more about the other team having off days than it is us playing well.

I'm sure a few here will disagree, but the body language and response from the playing group on Saturday was pretty discouraging. It looked like they hated each other and didn't want to be out there. And they still only lost by 9 points. Says to me that we have a bunch of talented, egotistical school boys pretending to be a team.

Kind of like amateur football. One week you beat a similar or decent-placed team, you're all about and about. Then the next week you play the top team and get pumped by 200 points. Not quite the same but the disparity is similar in terms of how we play as a team. One week you're all good mates, the next week everyone is just terrible, can't string together passes, cbf getting into space, yelling at each other on the pitch.

Like watching division 3 Thomastown seniors.

can't argue with any of that, most here are blinded by love, the key point for me is our best v any opposition best is not good enough to beat any side,therefore we do not control the result of any game.

It's going to be tough to overcome their rejuvenated midfield. Rockliff, Hanley, Beams, Redden and Zorko all had a big impact against Sydney.

As a result I reckon we need to drop one or two of the youngsters and bring in mature midfielder.

Out: Harmes (would be stiff and I don't think it's in Roos' nature to drop a player after one game), Dawes

In: Fitzpleasure, Newton/Michie

Fitz to provide good backup to Gawn against some quality ruck opponents.

can't argue with any of that, most here are blinded by love, the key point for me is our best v any opposition best is not good enough to beat any side,therefore we do not control the result of any game.

Exactly. Comparing the 'best' of all teams in the AFL puts us at the bottom of the pile. Praha said it above perfectly. Unless Brisbane and St.Kilda don't come to play, they will both beat us easily. It could happen of course, but I think Brisbane are on the hunt. Some on here don't want to, or can't see it, but we are the worst team in the competition. It's that simple.

Exactly. Comparing the 'best' of all teams in the AFL puts us at the bottom of the pile. Praha said it above perfectly. Unless Brisbane and St.Kilda don't come to play, they will both beat us easily. It could happen of course, but I think Brisbane are on the hunt. Some on here don't want to, or can't see it, but we are the worst team in the competition. It's that simple.

After the last two weeks webber I have no idea why they cannot.

To add to your comment rjay at this point JKH is not an AFL level Talent.

Back to Casey for the foreseeable future for mine

Whether JKH is a talent or not is debatable (I think he'll make it).

However, I question the value to the team of making a small forward the sub. Given the sub more often than not comes on around three quarter time, surely he should be a player able to go on ball and provide fresh legs when the rest of both teams will be feeling the strain of already having played three quarters of football. I just don't understand what JKH's role was meant to be last Saturday.

Whether JKH is a talent or not is debatable (I think he'll make it).

However, I question the value to the team of making a small forward the sub. Given the sub more often than not comes on around three quarter time, surely he should be a player able to go on ball and provide fresh legs when the rest of both teams will be feeling the strain of already having played three quarters of football. I just don't understand what JKH's role was meant to be last Saturday.

Neither do I.

I am no fan but with our current injury list Riley is the ideal player for the Sub.

Whether JKH is a talent or not is debatable (I think he'll make it).

However, I question the value to the team of making a small forward the sub. Given the sub more often than not comes on around three quarter time, surely he should be a player able to go on ball and provide fresh legs when the rest of both teams will be feeling the strain of already having played three quarters of football. I just don't understand what JKH's role was meant to be last Saturday.

I have always thought that JKH has always played his best footy when playing a whole game.

He struggles to get into the game when he is sub.

Edited July 13, 201510 yr by Devil is in the Detail

Bring in anyone who will provide a contest and has some heart.

Essendon clearly wanted the win more and worked harder.

In: Riley, Newton, Spence/Fitz

Out: Dawes, Stretch, JKH.

Anyone able to provide an update on how far away Frost, Salem, Kent and Pederson are?

They all have what we are lacking.

Edited July 13, 201510 yr by Ethan Tremblay

Some encouraging words about Harmes on our website:

"He wasn’t best-on-ground and didn’t kick a bag, but there was plenty to like about James Harmes’ first AFL match. The rookie had nine touches, threw his body in and gave a couple of strong bumps and made a few tackles, giving the Melbourne fans another youngster to keep an eye on...'

He did better in half a game than some of his teammates who played the whole game!!

I thought the intention was always to play Harmes for 1/2 the game (as most of debutantes have this year).

So he was to either start as the sub or lined up to be subbed out.

I would be surprised if he didn't know, that he would be subbed out, before the game started.

Doubt he will be dropped...maybe share the sub vest with one of the other 1st year players.

Bring in anyone who will provide a contest and has some heart.

Essendon clearly wanted the win more and worked harder.

In: Riley, Newton, Spence/Fitz

Out: Dawes, Stretch, JKH.

Anyone able to provide an update on how far away Frost, Salem, Kent and Pederson are?

They all have what we are lacking.

don't think heart was the main problem ethan

more to do with bad kicking, some bad structuring and some dumb football

after all we did win most stats and had a decided advantage in i50s and shots on goal