THE SAGA CONTINUES - WADA APPEALS

[DemonFrog 1,354]

It appears to me there is a lot not right with the AFL and the potential use of illegal drugs.

There needs to be a royal commission into this whole issue so we can get rid of the drug pushers and their supporters for good.

[Lucifers Hero 39,629]

So, James Hird loves and cares about his players, eh?

So much so that he went to Europe for his business studies during the bye round.

Missed training last Friday - at a time his team is in the pits.

Yep, shows he really, really cares - only about himself!

He should write a case study for his business school: How to single handedly bring down a once mighty football club!

[What 18,810]

So, James Hird loves and cares about his players, eh?

So much so that he went to Europe for his business studies during the bye round.

Missed training last Friday - at a time his team is in the pits.

Surely this is not true

He was already lower than whale [censored], but that would somehow sink him lower

[Lucifers Hero 39,629]

So, James Hird loves and cares about his players, eh?

So much so that he went to Europe for his business studies during the bye round.

Missed training last Friday - at a time his team is in the pits.

Surely this is not true

He was already lower than whale [censored], but that would somehow sink him lower

Yep, its true! From the HS: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/essendon-leaves-james-hird-out-of-furore/story-fni5f6kv-1227408683276

Giant thumb up from Hird to players, club and supporters!

Quite despicable really.

The sooner they dump him the better.

On second thoughts best they keep him - there is a (perverse?) pleasure in watching this quiet wrecking ball create havoc and will leave a rabble and a rubble in his wake.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[whatwhat say what 22,704]

True.

[Lucifers Hero 39,629]

"Drug importer Shane Charter has described as “definitely wrong'' his previous claim to anti-doping investigators that he sourced only the banned substance ... taking Thymosin Beta-4, Charter calls into question the veracity of testimony he previously provided to the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority". From the Australian.

Looks like he is setting the scene as being an 'unreliable witness' to help the players and to undermine the evidence WADA presents to the CAS hearing.

I wonder how much money/how threatening the EFC 'coterie' member with shady connections has given Charter this time!

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

Im still worried about the u/10s Hird was coaching, was Dank spotted at any of these games??

Edited June 22, 2015 by Wadda We Sing

[old dee 23,782]

"Drug importer Shane Charter has described as “definitely wrong'' his previous claim to anti-doping investigators that he sourced only the banned substance ... taking Thymosin Beta-4, Charter calls into question the veracity of testimony he previously provided to the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority". From the Australian.

Looks like he is setting the scene as being an 'unreliable witness' to help the players and to undermine the evidence WADA presents to the CAS hearing.

I wonder how much money/how threatening the EFC 'coterie' member with shady connections has given Charter this time!

Umm LH be careful what you say here!

[biggestred 5,026]

"Drug importer Shane Charter has described as “definitely wrong'' his previous claim to anti-doping investigators that he sourced only the banned substance ... taking Thymosin Beta-4, Charter calls into question the veracity of testimony he previously provided to the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority". From the Australian.

Looks like he is setting the scene as being an 'unreliable witness' to help the players and to undermine the evidence WADA presents to the CAS hearing.

I wonder how much money/how threatening the EFC 'coterie' member with shady connections has given Charter this time!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/meet-the-millionaire-who-struck-bombers-peace-deal/story-fni0fiyv-1227292301387

[dpositive 1,663]

Chip Le Grand on ABC this morning said

they didnt cheat, players signed documents after being lied to, the independent AFL investigation could not be satisfied,

it is unlikely that WADA will be able to prove anything

Oh Well he has a book to sell I guess!

[Chris 2,892]

Chip Le Grand on ABC this morning said

they didnt cheat, players signed documents after being lied to, the independent AFL investigation could not be satisfied,

it is unlikely that WADA will be able to prove anything

Oh Well he has a book to sell I guess!

What were they lied to about if they didn't cheat?

[beelzebub 23,313]

"Drug importer Shane Charter has described as “definitely wrong'' his previous claim to anti-doping investigators that he sourced only the banned substance ... taking Thymosin Beta-4, Charter calls into question the veracity of testimony he previously provided to the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority". From the Australian.

Looks like he is setting the scene as being an 'unreliable witness' to help the players and to undermine the evidence WADA presents to the CAS hearing.

I wonder how much money/how threatening the EFC 'coterie' member with shady connections has given Charter this time!

lets see what he says on record in a court where perjury laws apply.

Over to you Charter.

As to that imposter of a journo...more like a soggy French fry than a grand chip!! His only source is self derived !!!!

[biggestred 5,026]

charter says he imported TB4.

has a meeting with influential and wealthy essendon coterie member and then meets with essendons lawyers.

charter says he definitely didnt import TB4.

uh, guys...

[daisycutter 29,605]

in hun today, guess who was the only tipster to pick the bummers - l'il daniel dan danny andrews

Edited June 24, 2015 by daisycutter

[John Crow Batty 8,862]

charter says he imported TB4.

has a meeting with influential and wealthy essendon coterie member and then meets with essendons lawyers.

charter says he definitely didnt import TB4.

uh, guys...

Admitting importing or using banned substances like Charters and Dank have in the past then changing their story may save them in a court of law where proof beyond reasonable doubt is required. But on balance of probability or comfortable satisfaction they should be sunk as well as the players. Isn't comfortable satisfaction based on being more so than not so like 51% satisfied that the offence occurred? I still fail to see how the AFL tribunal got this wrong if they were fairdinkum in playing by the rules in regards to the players considering the trail of evidence. Edited June 24, 2015 by america de cali

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

I still fail to see how the AFL tribunal got this wrong if they were fairdinkum in playing by the rules in regards to the players considering the trail of evidence.

Here's your answer. http://www.smh.com.au/news/afl/hall-cleared-to-play-in-grand-final/2005/09/20/1126982057281.html

"Matter of law"? It's a sporting tribunal. Jones is a [censored]. <-- rhymes with "banker"

Edited June 24, 2015 by Ted Fidge

[Lance Uppercut 10]

By the way, the conclusion of this very authoritative article states:

"While Cas has stated that it is not bound by the rules of evidence, it is required to examine and apply standards, burdens of proof and presumptions. it is suggested that the manner in which this is done is consistent with that of the common law, with the one minor departure being the establishment of a clear third standard of proof, that of comfortable satisfaction, which is defined as being between the two common law standards. The standard of proof for the athlete is,however, based upon the balance of probabilities, which Cas has defined as being 51 per cent".

Lance Uppercut might like to read and absorb this conclusion since he has continually accused me of mis-stating this position. It is much more complex and nuanced than you make it out to be Lance. Get used to it.

well well, what a surprise. Once again you have a shallow and incorrect understanding of the issues.

Let me make is simple for you. If the athlete is the one who is challenging the decision, then the burden of proof is indeed balance of probabilities. For them to prove their innocence. For the governing body or WADA to prove their guilt it's still comfortable satisfaction. It's right there in the article you clearly didn't read too closely. The section on Gasquet makes it pretty clear.

And, as always, a brief referral to the actual WADA code is usually instructive. Read Section 3.1, Burden of proof. In black and white. It's comfortable satisfaction.

Oops.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Lance Uppercut

[deefrag 277]

Admitting importing or using banned substances like Charters and Dank have in the past then changing their story may save them in a court of law where proof beyond reasonable doubt is required. But on balance of probability or comfortable satisfaction they should be sunk as well as the players. Isn't comfortable satisfaction based on being more so than not so like 51% satisfied that the offence occurred? I still fail to see how the AFL tribunal got this wrong if they were fairdinkum in playing by the rules in regards to the players considering the trail of evidence.

It's all just a storm in a teacup (er vial)!

Despite the claims, there is no evidence that the Thymosin administered to players was Thymosin Beta-4, as supported by the following:

· There is no evidence that Thymosin or Peptide Thymosin is Thymosin Beta-4;

· There is no record of Dank supplying Thymosin Beta-4 to Essendon;

· There is no record of anyone invoicing Essendon for Thymosin Beta-4;

· There is no record of anyone administering Thymosin Beta-4 to any Essendon player;

· There is no record of anyone witnessing anyone administering Thymosin Beta-4 to any Essendon player;

· There is no record of any Essendon player admitting to having been administered Thymosin Beta-4;

· There is, however, a record contained in a spreadsheet on Dank’s computer of Thymodulin [sic] injections. This information was one of many crucial issues inexplicably omitted from the Interim Report.

·

There is evidence that Dean Robinson, the EFC high performance coach, emailed Dr Reid, the EFC senior doctor (copied to others) a list of supplements to be administered between the mid-year bye and the 2012 Grand Final, which included ‘Thymomodulin weekly.’ Thymomodulin was not WADA prohibited.

·

There is evidence that that development coach, Dean Wallis, searched inside Mr Dank’s office fridge, locating and photographing a vial of Thymomodulin

You can chase a wild goose but they are quite hard to catch!

source: some Essendon flunky!

[Willmoy1947 4,081]

Sorry mate could you hang on, we're too busy with the footy for a change...

[CityDee 738]

The code is unfair for a single athelete who is banned for a minor offence because the briganshaw scale makes it harder to prove guilt if the offence is more serious and deserves a bigger penalty . . Although if the cheating is varified at appeal they are in a world of trouble . Its a shame that people in the media and essendon supporters and the general public have a skewed view on the truth or think the players should get off , just because . Effectively empowering drug cheats .

[Chris 2,892]

It's all just a storm in a teacup (er vial)!

Despite the claims, there is no evidence that the Thymosin administered to players was Thymosin Beta-4, as supported by the following:

· There is no evidence that Thymosin or Peptide Thymosin is Thymosin Beta-4;

· There is no record of Dank supplying Thymosin Beta-4 to Essendon;

· There is no record of anyone invoicing Essendon for Thymosin Beta-4;

· There is no record of anyone administering Thymosin Beta-4 to any Essendon player;

· There is no record of anyone witnessing anyone administering Thymosin Beta-4 to any Essendon player;

· There is no record of any Essendon player admitting to having been administered Thymosin Beta-4;

· There is, however, a record contained in a spreadsheet on Dank’s computer of Thymodulin [sic] injections. This information was one of many crucial issues inexplicably omitted from the Interim Report.

·

There is evidence that Dean Robinson, the EFC high performance coach, emailed Dr Reid, the EFC senior doctor (copied to others) a list of supplements to be administered between the mid-year bye and the 2012 Grand Final, which included ‘Thymomodulin weekly.’ Thymomodulin was not WADA prohibited.

·

There is evidence that that development coach, Dean Wallis, searched inside Mr Dank’s office fridge, locating and photographing a vial of Thymomodulin

You can chase a wild goose but they are quite hard to catch!

source: some Essendon flunky!

Change every reference for TB4 to Thymomodulin and you would be just as right in what you are saying. That is the problem.

[deefrag 277]

"never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

[deefrag 277]

Gambling bad but Bombers good!

AFL giants Essendon have turned their back on the lucrative world of wagering, announcing they will not consider sponsorships from betting partners.

In a move aimed to curb the impact of gambling messages, which have become prevalent in modern sport, Bombers chief executive Xavier Campbell said feedback from the club's near 60,000-strong members was important. "We certainly respect the right of betting agencies to advertise in sport," Campbell said.

"But as an industry we need to proactively monitor the way this message is delivered particularly given many of our fans are children."

Oh pleeease!

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-say-no-to-sponsorship-deals-with-betting-agencies-20150625-ghxh33.html

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

Regardless of whether they're doing it for PR or not, it's still a good thing.

[Chris 2,892]

Gambling bad but Bombers good!

AFL giants Essendon have turned their back on the lucrative world of wagering, announcing they will not consider sponsorships from betting partners.

In a move aimed to curb the impact of gambling messages, which have become prevalent in modern sport, Bombers chief executive Xavier Campbell said feedback from the club's near 60,000-strong members was important. "We certainly respect the right of betting agencies to advertise in sport," Campbell said.

"But as an industry we need to proactively monitor the way this message is delivered particularly given many of our fans are children."

Oh pleeease!

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-say-no-to-sponsorship-deals-with-betting-agencies-20150625-ghxh33.html

I wonder if they are still taking the revenue from the pokies they have?