POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 6

[Farmer 831]

At half time we were likely to lose by 100. But the last 5 minutes before half time showed some desperation and the second half was much better. Spencer certainly gave it his best but he was smashed by Pyke and Jamar would not have been. Still, perhaps the club has to give Spencer a decent trial.

People are hard on Dawes. He was limping badly in first quarter and we thought he would be subbed off, but he actually improved as the game went on.

I agree with the comment that both this week and last we were badly outmuscled. I saw the Hawks in action and they are not, at present, with all those stars out, in the same league as Freo or Swans. We have a real chance next week

[whatwhat say what 22,326]

it looked like sydney put the cue in the rack.

[Emerald 1,744]

Just got home from the game after a long train ride,shall try and keep things positive:

T Mac

Hogan

Seeing Stretch's first goal

I got a pink torch

[What 18,810]

it looked like sydney put the cue in the rack.

They did what they needed to do, took them about 30 minutes and they knew we wouldnt challenge after that. Sad really.

[Macca 16,743]

Anyone else think there is this mentality that we can't beat these sorts of teams so we don't really attack the game the same way we would a side like Richmond or the Suns?

Blokes were so scared to leave their opponent to help out, seemed like we were in damage control before the ball was bounced

That mentality has been with the team/club since '07/'08

The players who should be impacting the contest aren't ... they get enough touches to improve the stat sheet but these players rarely, if ever, play really well against the best sides (a few of our less experienced players like Salem & T-Mac did play very well tonight)

They do enough to not stand out as being a candidate to be dropped but not enough to influence games. The 'ok' or 'alright' category. Our attack on the ball tonight was not up to scratch.

It must be really frustrating for Roos.

.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Macca

[Maybe next year 170]

I think the scoreline flattered us. I would have put Pederson on Tippett and played Howe up forward. I'm at a loss with Spencer and Toumpas.

As I read before, if Spencer wants to play he has to kick the ball sometimes. It is football. His dash in last quarter is promising. Jakarta is better than him and must come in.

Toumpas is slow and misses targets even when there is no pressure. He needed to show something but I Luke not see it today. I would give him one more chance and if nothing, then drop him for 6 weeks minimum. I want to see clean disposal.

For those who bag Watts, he had more possessions than JKH in 1 and a bit quarters. He looks to set up goals. I was interested that Rhys Shaw immediately targeted him when he came on. I think he needs to understand that teams feel he is soft. He has to do something about that.

The forwards had little opportunity today but showed promise when ball is kicked quickly to fwd line. To quote Terry Wallace, if I see Garlett miss a set shot dead n front 30 metres out I'll spew up. The same when he runs to an open goal. If it means he has to snap every time then do it.

[Ted Lasso 18,914]

Agree Macca, the quicker our young core group comes on the better

[waynewussell 5,018]

We have played 4 of the top 5 teams to date. I was at the ground tonight and we were never in it, but well into the last quarter had 7 goals to their 11... wrist slashing is somewhat premature! Salem is not going to be a half-back for much longer. Billy showed he is a quality player, even at this early stage. McDonald continues to have an All Australian year. Hogan continues to impress. Garlett and Lumumba continue to be very good additions. I thought Newton was a handy contributor... just focusing on recent additions... not all bad news!

[Je Roos Salem 661]

We are a team at the early stage of a re-build coming up against premiership contenders. Everyone is forgetting that the team on the park tonight is still gelling and getting to know each others strengths, weaknesses etc etc. The kids are very impressive. I don't hide from the fact that its been a frustrating ride for us die hards, but this crop of youngsters has shown plenty in 2015.

We played Spencer, Pedersen and Dawes together. That's not exactly something to be happy about in the future

[Mondê 525]

We played Spencer, Pedersen and Dawes together. That's not exactly something to be happy about in the future

who would you have in the side ahead of these three at this stage?

[Macca 16,743]

Agree Macca, the quicker our young core group comes on the better

Roos dropped 4 players and gave Watts the vest

... and we came out in the first half tonight and delivered an ordinary performance. Roos would have expected a lot better.

Tonight was really disappointing - the future looks bright with the addition of our new young players but they need the leaders/experienced/established players to lead the way.

Many here are wanting to drop JKH as if he's the reason we lost. He's the least of my concerns in terms of the overall team.

.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Macca

[Emerald 1,744]

Anyone else think there is this mentality that we can't beat these sorts of teams so we don't really attack the game the same way we would a side like Richmond or the Suns?

Blokes were so scared to leave their opponent to help out, seemed like we were in damage control before the ball was bounced

Where there is obvious issues of skill levels and fitness,its not hard to see there are big mental issues as well.It seems some of the players from the Bailey/Neeld eras are permantly mentally scarred.It's not possible to win without a belief that you can win and until we have that attitude against the top teams we will not be a force.This probably applies to all departments in the club and the supporters too but it makes it hard for us to believe when we sit there and watch efforts like tonight.The players have to give us a reason to believe.My advice would be to get every player to read The Art of War by Sun Tzu and apply it to football.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

who would you have in the side ahead of these three at this stage?

I'd keep the 50 to Hogan, Watts, Garlett, maybe Howe. Kent when he comes back. Maybe bring Fitzy in as a 2nd ruck/swingman. Dawes did just enough in the last to keep his spot, I'll admit, but I think he's mostly detrimental to us though he seems to be on Roos' good side

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Is it worth giving Mckenzie at least a full game?

[dpositive 1,662]

A couple of things I noticed

Sydney players get the ball to a player who is balanced helps delivery they do this by handing off and shepherding space or create a lose man by one on two in the challenge o create a loose ball= no pressure good delivery

We hand off and don't protect the person we give it too =always under pressure poor delete very

[Dr. Gonzo 23,931]

Have to agree with one comment earlier about our inability to deal with the bigger bodes. It's not just at the stoppage, it's also the 1 on 1 contests as we come out of the D50. If we can't find a contest then you kick out and hope that well at least halve the contest or close enough anyway, but we just don't have the strength or talent I compete on most occasions and it just comes back in.

I didn't watch much of the game as I was at a birthday where they had it on in the background.

That said, you have to consider the fact that we are a young developing team with senior "plug gap" players brought in while the kids develop. We've got a stretch of games against 3 of the clear best 4 teams in the comp all with mature well skilled/disciplined mids. Yeah it sucks to see how far off the pace we are against the best but Freo, Sydney and Hawthorn will be fighting out for the flag with Port and no one really gave us much chance of finishing higher than 12th. Maybe 10th at the very best.

Have a look at what some of our young kids did and take heart for the future. Hogan, Salem, TMac, Tyson, Brayshaw, Viney etc these guys have what it takes and as they mature and get more developed bodies they'll match it with the best teams. As it is now our mids don't have the bodies or senior support to go toe to toe with Freo and Sydney but it will come and I have faith they can do it against most teams in the comp. The top 4 are a league ahead of the rest of the comp though.

[chook fowler 19,304]

Is it worth giving Mckenzie at least a full game?

NO

[angrydee 842]

We are still suffering the outcomes of having fostered and still fostering a non competitive excuse making culture, club and supporter base wide. Yeah we kicked a few junk time goals. The overall effort was still embarrassing. Yeah they have bigger bodies and are reigning grand finalists. For most other developing clubs these things seem to be motivating factors to lift intensity and try to knock teams like that off...for us it feels like before the match even starts we've conceded that we are too frail to compete with them so we'll just turn up and hope for the best.

The tone was set with that early off the ground goal to Tippett in the goal square. Happened purely and simply because our 3 players standing around him didn't have the desperation to compete and kill the ball over the line. That sort of insipid effort has been happening and continues to happen at MFC for as long as I can remember. It's unacceptable effort at 17 other clubs but continues to happen at MFC. Cannot recall us ever being gifted goals that softly...we're always made to scrap and scrape for every score...and so we should be in a competitive professional competition.

Nothing really changes at the MFC. Opposition coaches need the smallest whiteboard in the world before playing us. It says: Compete with intent. Physically pressure them. They will fold. Game over.

Couldn't agree more

[Biffen 12,937]

Probably our best game for the year.

Toumpas showed he can play but how he ended up in a marking duel with Reid is Bizzarre.

Salem is a top player- leave him there.

Tom Mac- bluey and AA so far(not alcoholics anon)

Jeff Garlett is a gun. Showed courage, fight and skill.

Dunn actually looks fat in the arse,slow and so indecisive at the moment.

Dunn and Dawes are two guys that need to perform against the big teams or we will be crushed.

I wonder if Dawes is up to Afl at times ( cannot grab)

Stretch- a ready made player- can kick a football properly.

Spencer- tackles,runs,shepherds,bumps.

We equalled the clearances last night due to his second and third efforts.

Not all doom and gloom- there are some glaring problems with pace,skill and spread but we are in for a good second half of the year.

Our half back line is superb.

Overworked but brilliant.

We need some dash next draft.

Garlett like pace in two or three more spots would be nice.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Biffen

[CityDee 738]

Slow play at the wrong time, turn and go to a 50/50 back ourselves in. Sideways kicks and a ruckman who wont kick it . ffs. Its not how we train or have played at times this year. embarrassing and I'm sick of hearing the talk during the week from the playing group just shut up and get it done.

[redlegwarrior 23]

Tommy Mac, future captain material. Right attitude. All stands up

[CBDees 3,165]

Watts should have started on the ground and Stretch as the sub. After his early goal, we saw little more from Stretch and especially after halftime. He should have been subbed for JKH and we should have had Watts contribution for the whole match.

[Pipefitter 2,144]

Spencer needs a good run at it. I liked that his strength worried Pyke. Got a few free kicks (handballs) out of the ruck where as Jamar seems to give plenty a way. He also likes to get involved in the clearance after the hit out too which Jamar doesn't either. He's not perfect but offers more than Jamar does at the moment.

I felt Toumpas was played out of position as a defender. Let him run around the ball, see what he can do. It made him look worse than what he is trying to spoil players like Reid.

[demon3165 2,625]

And can the ruckmen just watch the bounce of the ball instead of their opponent then going for the ball.

[timD 994]

There was only about 25000 there tonight and im tipping a fair few of those who are posting on here were watching from the comfort of their couches. An issue for another day but poor turnout by YOU.

Being at the ground we worked hard to pressure and harrass Sydney but where we kept getting hammered was not pinning the ball or the player in the tackles and contested situations. Far too many times we got tackled and the ball was either held up or turned over and then when the swans players were tackled they either broke them or got the ball free and out to a player who moved it on quickly. Quite simply, we were completely outmuscled around the contest tonight. There is no quick fix for that as it takes time to build our young midfielders up and we simply dont have the same amoutn of tall strong midfield beasts to compete with both Freo and Sydney.

The Swans were far better at their transition from defence to attack and held their structure better so that they always had an option to kick too on the break. And they hit targets.

Too often our forwards were sucked too far up the ground leaving no marking targets at half forward or loose swans there. This is where those watching on TV will never get an understanding of what is going on. Multiple times the demons were moving out of half back and there was literally nobody to kick the ball too. That's what then causes hesitation and indecision and that is when they then turn the ball over or stuff it up.

Picket Fence please give it a rest. You are so Toumpas focussed you cannot see past your nose. He was so far from our worst tonight its not funny. He ran hard, competed hard and when there was an option available he took it. But when your only target is garlett amongst three swans defenders i don't blame him for hesitating or trying the impossible.

People say Watts had no impact, again, he was the sub so pretty hard to influence the game from there. When he came on the game was over but he still had a crack. Again not the problem.

At the ground Pyke absolutely destroyed Spencer. Spencer offers absolutely nothing. I have always said he competes hard but that does not cut it at AFL level when you are a liability otheriwse. A horrid passage of play occurred when he gave a handball off to jonesy running through half back but then failed to follow up and support by laying the block/shepherd and it resulted in jonesy getting smashed. He has absolutely no football nouse nor skills.

Howe was poor tonight. Dunn had a bad night. Dawes was sucked too far up the ground and even still didn't offer much. But quite simply- we were hammered by a bigger, stronger, faster, fitter and more skilled team. Anyone with common sense should be able to see that. We competed hard- drawing even or thereabouts in many of the contested categories but you cannot change phyisics and these simple facts.

Next week will be more of the same. It is the weeks after that where we might have some hope again.

I agree with the majority of this; I disagree about the Jones/Spencer thing. Spencer gave a handball to jones who ran himself into trouble. Spencer ran into position to get the handball; Jones saw him and turned away from him into more trouble. I'll need to see it in replay to be sure.

Our mids are below standard. Everything else flows from that. They didn't work hard enough to give the backs an option so many times. Just poor workrate. Then, when they get the ball they fumble, mis-hit kicks etc.