THE DRUG SCANDAL: AFL TRIBUNAL DECIDES

[beelzebub 23,383]

I can't see ASADA believing the AFL capable of any independent thought or unbridled judgements.

My guess is sport "overseeing" is set for a huge shake up in Oz. These self vested tribunals may become a dinosaur of the past.

[bing181 9,328]

the players got off because there was no absolute proof of what they had taken.

Which is the crux of the matter: there doesn't have to be "absolute" proof, only comfortable satisfaction.

It's that very difference that has many (of us) frustrated in the outcome.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Which is the crux of the matter: there doesn't have to be "absolute" proof, only comfortable satisfaction.

It's that very difference that has many (of us) frustrated in the outcome.

Exactly. Apparently only absolute proof would comfortably satisfy the AFL tribunal.

Sigh.

[bing181 9,328]

The lack of records has been central to removing a central plank in the process of proving beyond reasonable suspicion that Essendon players were administered banned substances.

It's "comfortable satisfaction", not "beyond reasonable suspicion" (whatever that is).

ASADA don't need WADA to do anything that they didn't do. All that ASADA need is for CAS to correctly apply the law regarding standards of proof. As people continue to point out, the burden of proof that the Tribunal applied is so high, that you could effectively never get a successful prosecution in a non-presence ADRV case.

[hemingway 7,631]

i hope WADA do step in but i have my doubts. In most world organizations AUS is at the bottom of the pile. At very least not a high priority. Whether there is an appeal not only depends on evidence or lack of it. In this case, despite all the circumstantial evidence no Essendon player tested positive. Yes, I know there is the Armstrong case but that was prosecuted in the US by USADA and mainly through the dogged persistence of Travis Tygart. Also, we had the dam wall smash when rider after rider came forward with some big names that could not be ignored. No such thing has occurred here.

However, whether WADA take on the Dons will be influenced by international priorities, staff resources and how much external pressure is placed on them to appeal. Alongside an assessment of how long an appeal will take, at what cost and use of resources, and liklihood of success.

My betting is they will not appeal. I hope I am proved wrong.

[jackaub 1,402]

i hope WADA do step in but i have my doubts. In most world organizations AUS is at the bottom of the pile. At very least not a high priority. Whether there is an appeal not only depends on evidence or lack of it. In this case, despite all the circumstantial evidence no Essendon player tested positive. Yes, I know there is the Armstrong case but that was prosecuted in the US by USADA and mainly through the dogged persistence of Travis Tygart. Also, we had the dam wall smash when rider after rider came forward with some big names that could not be ignored. No such thing has occurred here.

However, whether WADA take on the Dons will be influenced by international priorities, staff resources and how much external pressure is placed on them to appeal. Alongside an assessment of how long an appeal will take, at what cost and use of resources, and liklihood of success.

My betting is they will not appeal. I hope I am proved wrong.

I agree Ernest>

[bing181 9,328]

In this case, despite all the circumstantial evidence no Essendon player tested positive.

I don't know why people keep bringing this up as if it's consequential.

[beelzebub 23,383]

The thing that irks for the many is that it seems plainly obvious that the AFL had a desired/preferred outcome/ decision from the Tribunal and it was THEIR tribunal after all; not a truly independent one.
Despite the protestations that all was above board and the 3 were of course beyond reproach it has to be asked how the same set of events and evidence produced two variances of viewpoints and deliberations from the same people but of two parties ( players and dank )

Quite frankly this couldnt smell more if given a bath in Eau de WerribeeFarm !!!

Some ask why any appeal to CAS would result differently ?

Well,for starters it would all be viewed with consistency. 2nd. The idea of comfortable satisfaction is not only understood, its applied. Thirdly, those running the show have no vested interest in the sport(s) concerned. They actually arbitrate as opposed discriminate.

You might also say they are far more au fait with being down with Mallards as distinct with My Lords being done with fate.au

[Dees2014 2,377]

Just announced that ASADA will NOT appeal!

Futile to do so really. More of the same.

Only plausible path is for WADA to do its thing with CAS.

Let's hope they pick up the ball and run with it now.

Edit: Just saw this in the Age: "ASADA chief executive Ben McDevitt hinted at a lack of trust in the AFL system by saying any appeal by ASADA would "ultimately serve only to delay consideration of these matters" and deny WADA an immediate chance to take the case to the international Court of Arbitration for Sport."

Game On!

It does not surprise me at all that ASADA are not appealing. In fact I have been predicting this for over a year now. Why should ASADA spend their very scarce resources appealing to a local sports tribunal when they have been all along biased and highly influenced by the local sports culture, dominated by vested interest publicity machines with unlimited funds

I think it is a really smart move for McDevitt to hand the whole issue over to WADA in Switzerland where he knows he will get an objective hearing. He also knows that WADA tribunals are dominated by Olympic sports officials who take a much tougher line on drugs in sport than commercial team based sports like the AFL. In fact the Chairman of the CAS tribunal is none other than John Coates, the President of the AOC, and Director of the IOC, and he is on record as being appalled at the leniency under which Australian professional team sports have been administered wrt drugs. The Essendon case being the worst of the worst, you would expect them to come down on them like a ton of bricks.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Dees2014

[Dees2014 2,377]

i hope WADA do step in but i have my doubts. In most world organizations AUS is at the bottom of the pile. At very least not a high priority. Whether there is an appeal not only depends on evidence or lack of it. In this case, despite all the circumstantial evidence no Essendon player tested positive. Yes, I know there is the Armstrong case but that was prosecuted in the US by USADA and mainly through the dogged persistence of Travis Tygart. Also, we had the dam wall smash when rider after rider came forward with some big names that could not be ignored. No such thing has occurred here.

However, whether WADA take on the Dons will be influenced by international priorities, staff resources and how much external pressure is placed on them to appeal. Alongside an assessment of how long an appeal will take, at what cost and use of resources, and liklihood of success.

My betting is they will not appeal. I hope I am proved wrong.

Australia is definitely NOT bottom of the pile when it comes to sports. In fact we are a superpower, particularly when it comes to sports governance. The world looks to us for a lead, that is why the whole EFC issue is just so appalling, and why we must fix it fast. And we will with the help of CAS.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Dees2014

[Dees2014 2,377]

I've said all along that this is about preserving WADA's anti doping code which took decades to establish and which is of paramount importance to keeping world sport clean of drug cheats. Whether or not people have sympathy for the players, it would be disappointing if WADA did not act in their interests and take it to appeal before CAS.

Although the HQ for CAS is Switzerland, I understand that the hearing would most likely take place in Melbourne and I would anticipate the Court would have wider powers to call witnesses and I would also expect the Court to draw the appropriate inferences if witnesses failed to appear or gave unsatisfactory evidence in reaching a decision to its comfortable satisfaction on the facts.

I for one, would hope that WADA does not abdicate its responsibility to the clean athletes of the world and lodges an appeal.

They wil Jack, they will. Edited April 22, 2015 by Dees2014

[hemingway 7,631]

Australia is definitely NOT bottom of the pile when it comes to sports. In fact we are a superpower, particularly when it comes to sports governance. The world look to us for a lead, that is why the whole EFC issue is just so appalling, and why we must fix it fast. And we will with the help of CAS.

Interesting opinion. I do not agree that we are a superpower, but I do think that Australia is highly respected for its sports governance. Folks such as Kevan Gosper and John Coates are highly respected and have given Australia a reputation as fair and honest brokers in the politics of world sport. I do not think the world is looking to us. It may be a different matter if it was soccer, athletics, cycling or an international sport. However, I am sure people will be watching and there will be a level of interest in the outcome and any precedents it has for team sports.

As I mentioned I truly hope I am wrong and WADA appeal.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Interesting opinion. I do not agree that we are a superpower, but I do think that Australia is highly respected for its sports governance. Folks such as Kevan Gosper and John Coates are highly respected and have given Australia a reputation as fair and honest brokers in the politics of world sport. I do not think the world is looking to us. It may be a different matter if it was soccer, athletics, cycling or an international sport. However, I am sure people will be watching and there will be a level of interest in the outcome and any precedents it has for team sports.

As I mentioned I truly hope I am wrong and WADA appeal.

As I have written here before, there was a WADA global conference in South Africa in December 2014, when John Fehey was still President, which considered drug taking in team sports in detail. It was scheduled to last half a day, but was taken up almost entirely by considering Essendon and Cronulla, mostly Essendon. The consensus of the conference at the time that the issue is incredibly important, and given Australia's power and importance in world sport, if anyone can solve it we can. The result of that though is that the world IS watching the outcomes. We cannot hide behind our perceived backwater status in this. Interesting it is only some of us who consider us a backwater. The rest of the world certainly doesn't when it comes to sport, particularly in governance issues.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Ernie we certainly aren't a lightweight. We constantly hit above our weight. In Olympics were highly competitive and visual. In many other World Competitions we've achieved ?champion Status in many and bloody close often in others.

Think ...in no order. Surfing Marathon Triathlon sailing Rugby Cricket even Soccer they notice us. Freestyle Skiing Snowboarding and I could go on. We're up there

Just because Footy is relatively unknown beyond these shores ( even if now played in some manner in at least 18 countries probably more now) doesn't mean WADA won't see this as preeminent in its cause.

[hardtack 10,627]

Ernie we certainly aren't a lightweight. We constantly hit above our weight. In Olympics were highly competitive and visual. In many other World Competitions we've achieved ?champion Status in many and bloody close often in others.

Think ...in no order. Surfing Marathon Triathlon sailing Rugby Cricket even Soccer they notice us. Freestyle Skiing Snowboarding and I could go on. We're up there

Just because Footy is relatively unknown beyond these shores ( even if now played in some manner in at least 18 countries probably more now) doesn't mean WADA won't see this as preeminent in its cause.

I disagree BB... the commentators are constantly telling us how so-and-so has broken the world record for tackles, or set a new world record for possessions in a game etc etc... we ARE a world sport!!

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

I disagree BB... the commentators are constantly telling us how so-and-so has broken the world record for tackles, or set a new world record for possessions in a game etc etc... we ARE a world sport!!

In a world of our own?

Edited April 22, 2015 by america de cali

[beelzebub 23,383]

I disagree BB... the commentators are constantly telling us how so-and-so has broken the world record for tackles, or set a new world record for possessions in a game etc etc... we ARE a world sport!!

I stand/sit corrected....mea culpa

(Bloody auto spellcheck !!)

Edited April 22, 2015 by beelzebub

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

The point is like anything else. If enough people write to WADA (as I have) emphasizing the death of fair play (let alone justice) in an Australian sport that has a full stadium of near a hundred thousand people

every Grand Final, surely we're worth something.

[monoccular 17,573]

The point is like anything else. If enough people write to WADA (as I have) emphasizing the death of fair play (let alone justice) in an Australian sport that has a full stadium of near a hundred thousand people

every Grand Final, surely we're worth something.

Do you have contact details?

[sue 9,143]

Do you have contact details?

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/contact-us

[hemingway 7,631]

Ernie we certainly aren't a lightweight. We constantly hit above our weight. In Olympics were highly competitive and visual. In many other World Competitions we've achieved ?champion Status in many and bloody close often in others.

Think ...in no order. Surfing Marathon Triathlon sailing Rugby Cricket even Soccer they notice us. Freestyle Skiing Snowboarding and I could go on. We're up there

Just because Footy is relatively unknown beyond these shores ( even if now played in some manner in at least 18 countries probably more now) doesn't mean WADA won't see this as preeminent in its cause.

. I think my comments have been taken out of context and perhaps should be reread although boredom and time may make this unlikely. But Beezle old chap I hope you are right. I hope for the same outcome but our view of the international importance and priority differ.

[dpositive 1,684]

While I can understand that the tribunal was not comfortably satisfied of substances injected into players, while they were comfortably satisfied that Danks did handle drugs, as there are no records, and no player or support staff has revealed any evidence as per Armstrong, WADA must act to ensure its relevance.

To allow this defence when the Brownlow medalist admits having injections under a regime that publicly espoused "whatever it takes" directly confronts its authority to ensure no performance enhancing drugs are to be used to gain an advantage in sport.

The intention of the players and the club are obvious.

The AFL appears to have been complicit in the failure of the case wether by incompetence or design.

WADA will need to devote greater rigour to obtaining evidence than shown by the combined ASADA/AFL process.

Do they have powers to force Danks, dr Reid, Hird, Watson, Demetriou, the pharmacists chemists etc to appear? Do they have powers to examine police and government claims of criminal activity? Can they impose international standards including intent in the Australian internal sports jurisdiction?

Until and unless they do the game we follow is sullied. We must remind every follower and every commentator of this and that Essendon have provided an example that can be claimed by every club at every level and can provide an example to society at large.

It is no wonder we have av Ice problem in the country. Drug use occasioned by no records but plenty of players with intent can draw great comfort from the Essendon model of success. I am beginning to appreciate the original claims of the blackest day in Australian sport commentary. This situation has the potential to undermine the reputation of sport within the society.

[monoccular 17,573]

^^

"This situation has the potential to undermine the reputation of sport within the society. "

You say potential. It certainly has already done so. Has been allowed to do so by AFL in particular.

[The Reverend 1,736]

The point is like anything else. If enough people write to WADA (as I have) emphasizing the death of fair play (let alone justice) in an Australian sport that has a full stadium of near a hundred thousand people

every Grand Final, surely we're worth something.

Done.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

Can someone remind me...by what date does WADA have to lodge an appeal, should it wish to do so?