On 18/12/2014 at 22:07, Crawf52 said:

You must know something nobody else does. Who is Liam Fleming?

His son

  On 18/12/2014 at 22:07, Crawf52 said:

You must know something nobody else does. Who is Liam Fleming?

Winner of the coaches award for the Newtown Swans under 11's in 2014. Booming left foot that usually hits its target.

  On 19/12/2014 at 00:56, hardtack said:

Winner of the coaches award for the Newtown Swans under 11's in 2014. Booming left foot that usually hits its target.

You always have the good NSW mail.

How is the family btw?

  On 18/12/2014 at 05:58, rjay said:

Agree and I don't want to get bogged down in this, ASADA have made mistakes along the way.

My point is many see WADA coming in over the top, I would not be a sure as some.

My take is that ASADA have been shot at from the Ess camp and supporting media but in fact have very little in the way of being able to defend themselves publicly. We don't know what ASADA have done. We know parts but not the full extent. Justive Middleton's defence of the ASADA CEO I think was telling in that regard.

Its also a narrative that Ess want us to believe because that is their case. ASADA are bungling fools. They can't allow the focus to be on their actions because they were deplorable, unsafe, unscrupulous and most likely highly illegal.

It's a dirty game.

And I think you will also find the WADA response will be vastly different from the Cromulla response. It will be much stronger because there is more at stake.

  On 19/12/2014 at 01:22, jazza said:

You always have the good NSW mail.

How is the family btw?

All is well... but my son and I look forward most to Easter and our annual sojourn (well, 2015 will be the 2nd year on the trot) to Melbourne to celebrate his birthday and watch the Dees opening game at the "G". The only thing he's hanging out for more than that, is the start of his next season at the Newtown Swans.

  On 19/12/2014 at 01:24, jnrmac said:

My take is that ASADA have been shot at from the Ess camp and supporting media but in fact have very little in the way of being able to defend themselves publicly. We don't know what ASADA have done. We know parts but not the full extent. Justive Middleton's defence of the ASADA CEO I think was telling in that regard.

Its also a narrative that Ess want us to believe because that is their case. ASADA are bungling fools. They can't allow the focus to be on their actions because they were deplorable, unsafe, unscrupulous and most likely highly illegal.

It's a dirty game.

And I think you will also find the WADA response will be vastly different from the Cromulla response. It will be much stronger because there is more at stake.

I hope you are right 'jnrmac', they can't afford to roll over like they did with Cronulla.

  On 19/12/2014 at 00:25, deefrag said:

What should we make of this . . .

Peter Jess was a manager of two of the Essendon players during the time when the supplements regime was running.

Mr Jess told 7.30 he knew from his dealings with the club that players were being given a range of substances from late 2011.

"I spoke to a doctor that was close to the club, he said they were trialling a new range of peptides and I was concerned," he said.

Mr Jess said he raised concerns about performance-enhancing drugs (PED) including testosterone and peptides with the AFL and the Players' Association.

"In 2011, 2012 and 2013 I said I was concerned about the use of PEDs in our sport," Mr Jess said.

"And the response was that if I didn't have proof, then they weren't prepared to investigate it.

"Now, my role is not as a drug investigator. My role is if I hear things, then I am compelled to tell the peak body that I have some concerns."

Mr Jess says senior AFL executive Adrian Anderson referred him to the AFL's integrity manager but he never heard back.

Sounding like a spot of ass covering to me!

As I've said a number of times, it would beggar belief that the player managers and the AFLPA didn't know what was going on at Essendon. We know the AFL did.

They are all covering their backsides. Personally I hope the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.

  On 19/12/2014 at 02:29, rjay said:

As I've said a number of times, it would beggar belief that the player managers and the AFLPA didn't know what was going on at Essendon. We know the AFL did.

They are all covering their backsides. Personally I hope the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.

Yep - and if Jess was so concerned why, in the best interests of the players he supposedly represents, didn't he advise his charges not to agree to be involved in the supplement program?

He could have also let the AFLPA know of his concerns or workcover for that matter (who would have been appropriate as as i have banged on about the real issue is player welfare not use of PEDs - certainly this is the issue a manager who is concerned about his player should be most concerned with)

  On 19/12/2014 at 03:29, binman said:

Yep - and if Jess was so concerned why, in the best interests of the players he supposedly represents, didn't he advise his charges not to agree to be involved in the supplement program?

He could have also let the AFLPA know of his concerns or workcover for that matter (who would have been appropriate as as i have banged on about the real issue is player welfare not use of PEDs - certainly this is the issue a manager who is concerned about his player should be most concerned with)

He supposedly did contact the AFLPA according to him....so ...aaaah...where was the AFLPA during all of this....asleep at the wheel also ??

  On 19/12/2014 at 03:40, beelzebub said:

He supposedly did contact the AFLPA according to him....so ...aaaah...where was the AFLPA during all of this....asleep at the wheel also ??

didn't gerard healy also raise concerns with the afl?

i think essendon had a few people questioning their "program" but they still pressed ahead

no doubt they then went about ensuring no smoking guns were left lying around.....or did they?

it really was "whatever it takes". they deserve to pay, but the afl's governance was soft at best

  On 19/12/2014 at 03:47, daisycutter said:

didn't gerard healy also raise concerns with the afl?

i think essendon had a few people questioning their "program" but they still pressed ahead

no doubt they then went about ensuring no smoking guns were left lying around.....or did they?

it really was "whatever it takes". they deserve to pay, but the afl's governance was soft at best

the last thing the AFL wanted is what they currently have.. a truckload of poo on their carpet !! Andy knew what might happen but he wasnt too bright in how he went about things in this regard

  On 19/12/2014 at 03:47, daisycutter said:

didn't gerard healy also raise concerns with the afl?

i think essendon had a few people questioning their "program" but they still pressed ahead

no doubt they then went about ensuring no smoking guns were left lying around.....or did they?

it really was "whatever it takes". they deserve to pay, but the afl's governance was soft at best

Yes Gerard did. Went to the AFL telling them of the rumoured peptide use and the soft tissue injuries. He's a physio so would have heard the scuttlebut and put 2 and 2 together.

Why IMO is why Demetriou when approached by the ACC said " Is it Essendon?" They had mail well before and is why he would have rung Evans saying the shiite is about to come down...

Ess tried to tie it to an ASADA leak but its just not true.

  On 19/12/2014 at 04:42, jnrmac said:

Yes Gerard did. Went to the AFL telling them of the rumoured peptide use and the soft tissue injuries. He's a physio so would have heard the scuttlebut and put 2 and 2 together.

Why IMO is why Demetriou when approached by the ACC said " Is it Essendon?" They had mail well before and is why he would have rung Evans saying the shiite is about to come down...

Ess tried to tie it to an ASADA leak but its just not true.

don't forget here, jnr, essendon is the victim of gross mismanagement and governance of everybody but themselves

if everyone else had exercised their responsibilities we wouldn't be where we are now

now they are just being scape-goated to whitewash the real guilty

yeah, right

ASADA to continue presenting evidence when they meet next

I'd say theres a fair bit of evidence!

  On 19/12/2014 at 06:19, biggestred said:

ASADA to continue presenting evidence when they meet next

I'd say theres a fair bit of evidence!

  On 19/12/2014 at 06:19, biggestred said:

ASADA to continue presenting evidence when they meet next

I'd say theres a fair bit of evidence!

...but that can't be right. Rohan & Robbo said....

  On 19/12/2014 at 06:37, rjay said:

...but that can't be right. Rohan & Robbo said....

Maybe they're presenting the same non-evidence 34 times.

  On 18/12/2014 at 10:36, Crawf52 said:

That's my boy OD. I'm getting to you. I knew you'd come round to my optimistic view of the world. It's going to be great my friend!

Mind you the one we win in 2020 will be the third leg of a trifecta!

Nathan Jones will kick the last goal of the game and Hawthorn will be vanquished by one glorious point. You and I may well be dead due to massive heart attacks but what a way to go. Would there be anything left to hang around for? Can't think of anything.

Now I'm going to have to change my do not resuscitate notice to dismiss pulling the plug until after the GF.

  On 18/12/2014 at 21:50, Lucifer said:

They are both on vacation!

Journos take vacation strategically. There is no way known that they would be absent from a major breaking story unless they did it by choice. That is my point

  On 19/12/2014 at 03:47, daisycutter said:

didn't gerard healy also raise concerns with the afl?

i think essendon had a few people questioning their "program" but they still pressed ahead

no doubt they then went about ensuring no smoking guns were left lying around.....or did they?

it really was "whatever it takes". they deserve to pay, but the afl's governance was soft at best

r

Ehh...it is called cheating, and that is why they will go!

  On 19/12/2014 at 09:26, Dees2014 said:

r

Ehh...it is called cheating, and that is why they will go!

Wouldn't be surprised if the AFL finds those players no longer active in the AFL or EFC more guilty than the rest, so they can end up with harsh penalties for them, lesser ones for marginal players and next to nothing for those players who are important to Essendon in 2015. Maybe one scapegoat amongst the latter to make things look respectable.

I expect they could do that even if the evidence is very similar in each case - we know It's not beyond the talent of the tribunal to hand out different or no penalties for the same offence, though I know the basic evidence appears to be at the club level, not th individual player level. They'd try to fine tune it to keep ASADA/WADA from appealing - ASADA at least would be happy to get some scalps after the PR campaign that has been run against them.

That way the AFL appears to be doing something noble about drugs, but doesn't affect the competition/TV too much or upset those legions of EFC supporters.

Amazing how when the heat is turned up there are no leaks at all!

We aren't even getting a summary report.

I wonder what we'll get at the end? Just the verdict and penalty?

For what it's worth I think just that they were to be found guilty, unequivocally, would be definitively important for everything to do with the game and it's future

  On 20/12/2014 at 23:35, sue said:

Wouldn't be surprised if the AFL finds those players no longer active in the AFL or EFC more guilty than the rest, so they can end up with harsh penalties for them, lesser ones for marginal players and next to nothing for those players who are important to Essendon in 2015. Maybe one scapegoat amongst the latter to make things look respectable.

I would have thought that if they are all found guilty of the same offence, then they would all receive the same penalty... anything else and I would think that WADA would have something to say about it.

I said in an earlier post that the Bombers were bringing in experienced players from other clubs, clearly to minimise the effect of having about 10 or so senior players suspended.

In the article on Winderlich changing his mind on retirement and committing to one more year, it mentioned of course that he was not one of the 34.

By dragging this out and seeing many of the 34 leave or retire and new players brought in to replace them, the Bombers have minimised the effect of suspensions.