Sorry Rpfc I love your contributions round here but I strongly disagree. Our back line functioned so well without Frawley that we came second last and lost 18 games including a 10 goal loss to GWS. Frawley was key I all of our wins and performed exceptionally well when he went back against North and Petrie in round 23. MFC needs a stable high quality player more than a speculative one right now. Hawthorn hasn't stuffed up a trade in years. If they need Frawley with Lake, Gibson, Spangher, Stratton and Schoenmakers we definately need him with Dunn, Garland and McDonald.

You can't just isolate the defence when comparing the two sides, Hawthorn are well drilled and play as a unit across the ground with Hodgey playing a floating role in front of the defence, Burgoyne running off half back and Gunstan/Hale dropping back as lose men when the need arises.

If you want to talk one on one Garland Dunn and Mcdonald are all better players than Spangher and Schoenmakers, who would look horrific in our defence. Those three would fit easily into the Hawthorn backline and play their role surrounded by the other better players.

In regard to Hawthorn needing Frawley, they have planned ahead as good clubs do on a continual basis. The Hawks have taken Frawley when the opportunity arose where they would not have to give anything up. Frawley is the long term replacement for Lake.

You can't just isolate the defence when comparing the two sides, Hawthorn are well drilled and play as a unit across the ground with Hodgey playing a floating role in front of the defence, Burgoyne running off half back and Gunstan/Hale dropping back as lose men when the need arises.

If you want to talk one on one Garland Dunn and Mcdonald are all better players than Spangher and Schoenmakers, who would look horrific in our defence. Those three would fit easily into the Hawthorn backline and play their role surrounded by the other better players.

In regard to Hawthorn needing Frawley, they have planned ahead as good clubs do on a continual basis. The Hawks have taken Frawley when the opportunity arose where they would not have to give anything up. Frawley is the long term replacement for Lake.

I would think Frawley is the immediate upgrade on Lake.

He will be a fantastic player for Hawthorn.

I would think Frawley is the immediate upgrade on Lake.

He will be a fantastic player for Hawthorn.

He will, I am sure.

But we didn't lose because of our backline, otherwise we would have put Frawley back there.

We have a third rate midfield and you know it - it is the singular reason why we lose games.

Our backline will be fine without Frawley, our team will not be fine until we have a midfield.

Rpfc and Pennant you both have short memories. We have a dearth of quality KPPs. It is one of the key reasons we lost to the Saints and GWS early in the season. Our midfield improved this season, it's not great but it improved the reason we continued to lose was a lack of tall forwards and this is why Frawley was pushed forward. It had nothing to do with having an allegedly strong back line. Had Clark and Hogan been fit as we expected pre-season Frawley would have been full back and Garland and Dunn would have played slightly different roles.

Hawthorn just won a flag on the back of its depth currently it's KPPs line up like this:

Rough head, Hale, Gunston, Schoenmakers, Lake, Gibson, Frawley, Spangher, with rucks like Segler and Macevoy capable of playing KP during a chopout and Grimley and Lowdon in the wings.

Our KPP have injury concerns and a lack of quality. One long term injury can see our already weakened Forward and Backline turning to guys like Pedo and Fitzy playing key roles. Frawley is light years ahead of them:

Dawes (susp rnd 1), Hogan (missed a year of footy, yet to play a game), Pedo (improved but not capable of carrying a key post), Fitzy, McDonald (suspect kick), Dunn (not big enough for most FF), Garland (better playing small), Jamar, Gawn, Spencer, King

A long term injury to TMac and we don't win a game, we desperately need Frawley!

Also Pennant Spagher played a hell of a lot better than Garland this year and is far more handy up forward than Garland. Dunn is not as big as either Schoenmakers and Spangher are both bigger than Dunn and are far better for providing a contest which is their role. I'm not saying they'd look at MFC as what we need is a FB and a FF like Frawley and Clark not a role player. But I think you grossly underestimate them and overrate our back line. TMac and Dunn had great years but beyond them we are very thin.

Rpfc and Pennant you both have short memories. We have a dearth of quality KPPs. It is one of the key reasons we lost to the Saints and GWS early in the season. Our midfield improved this season, it's not great but it improved the reason we continued to lose was a lack of tall forwards and this is why Frawley was pushed forward. It had nothing to do with having an allegedly strong back line. Had Clark and Hogan been fit as we expected pre-season Frawley would have been full back and Garland and Dunn would have played slightly different roles.

Hawthorn just won a flag on the back of its depth currently it's KPPs line up like this:

Rough head, Hale, Gunston, Schoenmakers, Lake, Gibson, Frawley, Spangher, with rucks like Segler and Macevoy capable of playing KP during a chopout and Grimley and Lowdon in the wings.

Our KPP have injury concerns and a lack of quality. One long term injury can see our already weakened Forward and Backline turning to guys like Pedo and Fitzy playing key roles. Frawley is light years ahead of them:

Dawes (susp rnd 1), Hogan (missed a year of footy, yet to play a game), Pedo (improved but not capable of carrying a key post), Fitzy, McDonald (suspect kick), Dunn (not big enough for most FF), Garland (better playing small), Jamar, Gawn, Spencer, King

A long term injury to TMac and we don't win a game, we desperately need Frawley!

Bollocks

We need players with a far better mindset than Frawley.

"I will wait to see the improvement & direction of the club..."

And how much did Chip contribute to that improvement??

Chip may well play well in a top side, but he was never going to lead the team back up the ladder.

We can do better.

Anyway we have no choice. He plays for the sewerage farmers now.

Bollocks

We need players with a far better mindset than Frawley.

"I will wait to see the improvement & direction of the club..."

And how much did Chip contribute to that improvement??

Chip may well play well in a top side, but he was never going to lead the team back up the ladder.

We can do better.

Anyway we have no choice. He plays for the sewerage farmers now.

Lol, yeah and with a terrible attitude he led the team for marks, came 2nd in our goal kicking despite playing full back in at least 5 games, played 21 games and had the support of Paul Roos and came top 10 in the best and fairest. He made some mistakes but given he played an unfamiliar role for most of the season he was one of our better players. If he did have a negative attitude this year then I fear what he can do at Hawthorn even more!

I understand trying to see the silver lining in losing our players but this is a poor result for the club and an indictment on free agency.

Everyone over rates this list. I read so where a poster stating we would be nudging top 8. It's all doom and gloom by rd23 and then the rose colored spectacles get dusted off for trade week. By pre season the Dees are ready to smash the Hawks. Lol

Lol, yeah and with a terrible attitude he led the team for marks, came 2nd in our goal kicking despite playing full back in at least 5 games, played 21 games and had the support of Paul Roos and came top 10 in the best and fairest. He made some mistakes but given he played an unfamiliar role for most of the season he was one of our better players. If he did have a negative attitude this year then I fear what he can do at Hawthorn even more!

I understand trying to see the silver lining in losing our players but this is a poor result for the club and an indictment on free agency.

Not if we trade well...Frawley is an average player in terms of the AFL's best.

I do not rate him nearly as high as you...Never have.

No worries WYL. We'll both see how he goes at the Hawks.

I hope we trade well, but I'm not happy with the FA system, and without it I think our club would've retained key players and would be better off.

We are currently 2nd last and lost two of the most valuable players on our list when we were already struggling for KPPs. I'm usually very optimistic but it seems to me the odds are stacked against us.

No worries WYL. We'll both see how he goes at the Hawks.

I hope we trade well, but I'm not happy with the FA system, and without it I think our club would've retained key players and would be better off.

We are currently 2nd last and lost two of the most valuable players on our list when we were already struggling for KPPs. I'm usually very optimistic but it seems to me the odds are stacked against us.

Getting pick 3 for a player who couldn't wait to get the jumper off is of far more value to us Deejam....When has Frawley played like a legend since 2010?

The only reason FA has been bad for us so far is that we have drafted so badly pre Roos and PJ arriving.

Now i agree FA is Rape and Pillage, but we have to be aggressive...make it work for us.

Clark is a bitter pill...he has done the dirty on us, not the system..

We do need another key forward to work with Dawes and Hogan

But don't lose sleep over Frawley...We can do better.

Bollocks

We need players with a far better mindset than Frawley.

"I will wait to see the improvement & direction of the club..."

And how much did Chip contribute to that improvement??

Chip may well play well in a top side, but he was never going to lead the team back up the ladder.

We can do better.

Anyway we have no choice. He plays for the sewerage farmers now.

Technically its not sewerage its sewage.Sewerage refers to the infrastructure that conveys sewage

Technically its not sewerage its sewage.Sewerage refers to the infrastructure that conveys sewage

Good pick up Toorak. I have tried to educate WYL about the benefits of the Werribee Sewage Farm for all of Melbourne but he insists on using it as a derogatory term!

Technically its not sewerage its sewage.Sewerage refers to the infrastructure that conveys sewage

HaHaHa! I was unaware of such differences...I am sure the odor permeating from both is of a similar strength..

Good pick up Toorak. I have tried to educate WYL about the benefits of the Werribee Sewage Farm for all of Melbourne but he insists on using it as a derogatory term!

When you complete your ascension up the ranks of peerage Earl,you may consider adding "turds rampant" to your coat of arms.

The best part of BBO goes to Werribee.

Well Gill doesn't think FA is benefitting top clubs exclusively. And he has a point,,,

"I think it's also worth noting that Beams [brisbane Lions], Griffen [Greater Western Sydney], Christensen [brisbane] and Ryder [Port Adelaide] all went to clubs that were seen one-to-two years ago as totally unfashionable and not destination clubs. This is a significant point."

Thats the view from HQ. We better work fast at making ourselves a desirable club if we really want to attract players.......

The biggest worry for me with free agency, is the potential for struggling clubs to be farmed out of contention... Successful clubs will rotate between the struggling clubs picking off their developed players every year, leaving struggling clubs stuck in a compensation/development loop... Being awarded pick 3 as compensation for Frawley looks great on paper and under the old system is great, but with free agency here it's really just another set back and a delay in progress... The value of draft picks has diminished because of free agency, which will allow strong clubs to rebuild without closing their premiership window...

There's the suggestion that we could always trade the compensation picks to break the loop... but... The reality is... why would anyone trade for draft picks/young players, when they can just poach them in a few years for nothing anyway? We had zero inquiries about our picks, because the farming has already begun...

If compensation regarding free agency doesn't change, then struggling clubs will never have a real chance at success again...

My suggestion is.. If a free agent is poached and is considered within the compensation bands, then the poaching club should be required to pay a fee... Which would be given to the other clubs salary cap..

Band 1... $300,000 extra cap, plus middle first round pick

Band 2... $150,000 extra cap, plus end of first round pick

Band 3... $80,000 extra cap, plus end of second round pick

Band 4... $20,000 extra cap, plus end of third round pick

The club losing the free agent, should be entitled to activate or save or trade this extra space...

Edited October 17, 201410 yr by AODees

Well Gill doesn't think FA is benefitting top clubs exclusively. And he has a point,,,

"I think it's also worth noting that Beams [brisbane Lions], Griffen [Greater Western Sydney], Christensen [brisbane] and Ryder [Port Adelaide] all went to clubs that were seen one-to-two years ago as totally unfashionable and not destination clubs. This is a significant point."

Thats the view from HQ. We better work fast at making ourselves a desirable club if we really want to attract players.......

They were all trades, not FA's?

Well Gill doesn't think FA is benefitting top clubs exclusively. And he has a point,,,

"I think it's also worth noting that Beams [brisbane Lions], Griffen [Greater Western Sydney], Christensen [brisbane] and Ryder [Port Adelaide] all went to clubs that were seen one-to-two years ago as totally unfashionable and not destination clubs. This is a significant point."

Thats the view from HQ. We better work fast at making ourselves a desirable club if we really want to attract players.......

He missed the point that the receiving club gets the FA for free: Sydney gave up zip for Buddy. Same for Carlton/Thomas, Hawthorn/Frawley. No draft picks no players given up! This is the problem with AFL FA. Gill just chose to conveniently overlook this fundamental flaw!

They were all trades, not FA's?

...and in all cases the players were running away from something and wanted to leave the state.

They were all trades, not FA's?

Exactly. Gill's pulling the wool over our eyes. Like the rampant commercialisation that has swept through the game in recent years, free agency is murderous to the clubs which were down the ladder when it came in.

Just seems so unfair - the receiving club gets a proven, quality player and the brutalised club gets a draft pick, who, if he's any good, may well run off to a top club as soon as he's able.

Edited October 17, 201410 yr by Jara

They were all trades, not FA's?

Yes you're right. My bad. It was part of an article re Free AGency creating an environment where players thought they can now rip up contracts.

McLachlan said that only five of the 50 eligible free agents from the outset of the 2014 season had moved clubs

Ergo:No problem. We have the same issue though. Need to become a destination fast. And we do that by winning.

The fact that Gill would make such a fundamental flaw proves how much the AFL are in denial about the changing landscape.
He doesn't even know the difference between free agency and trading!
How can you expect them to regulate, let alone rectify, a system that they themselves don't properly understand.
Bloody amateur hour over at AFL HQ.

The fact that Gill would make such a fundamental flaw proves how much the AFL are in denial about the changing landscape.

He doesn't even know the difference between free agency and trading!

How can you expect them to regulate, let alone rectify, a system that they themselves don't properly understand.

Bloody amateur hour over at AFL HQ.

The AFL know what is going on. Gill is just feeding the masses what he wants them to know.

Have the chief writers of the code corrected his flawed comment...yet?

Bottom clubs will be raided. Some will not survive.

9 games a week is far too many.

This is exactly why the last 8 years have been such a disaster and why ALL our list is tradeable (but no one was interested)

Losing those last 10 games this year killed any respect from rival clubs.