It is 69% this year. Its no myth.

If your suggesting it is above 85% over his career you are dreaming.

Keep going yourself.

Oh dear Saty...

?.....you are kidding right?.....assume you mean the West Coast were the defence was under siege.....MFC 'supporters' never cease to amaze me...

Or the game when Devon Smith got BOG and I'm pretty sure I saw Jetta lined up on him at the opening bounce.

Jetta's been a revelation this year but his past fortnight has been terrible.

I would qualify that.

Give me a ball and tell me to kick without anyone coming at me to a player 20 metres away and 20 metres clear and i can kick.

Have someone rushing me or have to pinpoint a pass - Im Simon Godfrey.

Our stats on disposal, especially our defenders, are made to look better because we chip to a loose so often in the back 50.

Then you cant really kick Nut !! AFL players seem to fall into two main groups...Those that CAN during a game, and those that butcher.. Occasionally a good kick will shank but thats an aberration not the norm. Seldom ( but no impossible ) does an average ( to krap ) kick flook a pearler

It only matters what you can do on game day.

Back in the dark ages it was easy enough to see who could really kick. If you could spiral a Torp or slam a stab pass onto ( into ) someones chest ...YOU COULD KICK. Punting was invariably used when all else fails. A drop punt became the get out of jail for those that couldnt time a drop kick

Yes I know its all moved on , and in the main for the better, but those kicking skills , or lack thereof were easy to gauge, and sometimes correct. You would be dropped for dribbling a ball !!

I still reckon a Torp is a valuable kick as anyone who can, can get 10-15 m more out of it. That and its a thing of beauty to watch

Anyhow back to the topic whatever it was lol

Then you cant really kick Nut !! AFL players seem to fall into two main groups...Those that CAN during a game, and those that butcher.. Occasionally a good kick will shank but thats an aberration not the norm. Seldom ( but no impossible ) does an average ( to krap ) kick flook a pearler

It only matters what you can do on game day.

Back in the dark ages it was easy enough to see who could really kick. If you could spiral a Torp or slam a stab pass onto ( into ) someones chest ...YOU COULD KICK. Punting was invariably used when all else fails. A drop punt became the get out of jail for those that couldnt time a drop kick

Yes I know its all moved on , and in the main for the better, but those kicking skills , or lack thereof were easy to gauge, and sometimes correct. You would be dropped for dribbling a ball !!

I still reckon a Torp is a valuable kick as anyone who can, can get 10-15 m more out of it. That and its a thing of beauty to watch

Anyhow back to the topic whatever it was lol

and don't forget the daisycutter bub, truly a thing of beauty

I still reckon a Torp is a valuable kick as anyone who can, can get 10-15 m more out of it. That and its a thing of beauty to watch

The disappearance of the torp has been a real loss for the game.

It was a thing of beauty, and could change a game at the right time.

Gaddy Lyon was a great exponent; will never forget the one he dobbed from inside the centre square at Waverley against Carlton in the '88 Preliminary Final. Massive.

On kicking more generally, Todd Viney is the best proof that someone can improve their kicking - he was pretty ordinary for most of his career but became near elite in the latter stages.

The disappearance of the torp has been a real loss for the game.

It was a thing of beauty, and could change a game at the right time.

Gaddy Lyon was a great exponent; will never forget the one he dobbed from inside the centre square at Waverley against Carlton in the '88 Preliminary Final. Massive.

On kicking more generally, Todd Viney is the best proof that someone can improve their kicking - he was pretty ordinary for most of his career but became near elite in the latter stages.

I think you are looking at Toddy way too fondly - he was pretty ordinary most of his career but improved in the latter stages ( elite is a wee bit of a stretch - I actually had that conversation with him - he worked hard at it - do I sound like Saty now ?)

I think you are looking at Toddy way too fondly - he was pretty ordinary most of his career but improved in the latter stages ( elite is a wee bit of a stretch - I actually had that conversation with him - he worked hard at it - do I sound like Saty now ?)

Elite probably is a stretch (that's why i qualified it with 'near').. I'd settle for improved significantly though

According to AFL......Nth disposal ranking is 2nd in the comp at 74% For this year

Melbourne equal 3rd at 73.8%

Just saying

It's a rubbish statistic, but I think that was your point.

It's a rubbish statistic, but I think that was your point.

I would like to know the disposal efficiency into the forward 50. Would have to be the worst in the comp. The percentage is inflated by the merry go round of chip kicks across half back.

I've got a lot of time for Terlich, more so than either Bail or Riley, so I'm pretty happy with that news.

However, Roos has handed out new contracts to Spencer, M.Jones, Jetta, McDonald, Terlich, Riley & Bail so far this year, most of them 2 years. You can't complain about the state of the list and then go around handing out multi year deals to a bunch of C and D grade players, most of whom have been in the system for four years or longer. Particularly given that Jamar, McKenzie and Evans will still be stinking it up next year.

I hope we don't miss out on taking players in the pre season draft because we've moved too quickly resigning this calibre of player.

You can't delist everyone. As much as we would like to.

He's obviously also got his favourites. Bail's played 20 games, Terlich 15, Riley 8.

Strauss, Blease, Nicholson, Tapscott and Clisby have played 6 between them.

We lose those 5, plus Clark, Byrnes and Frawley, and that's 8 spots. Then there could be a trade or two. For a list that is better than it's playing (I'll stand by that, despite the last two months), that's a decent turnover.

According to AFL......Nth disposal ranking is 2nd in the comp at 74% For this year

Melbourne equal 3rd at 73.8%

Just saying

It's been covered - rubbish statistic that isn't worth the paper it's written on.

So basically every player involved in that loss to GWS Keillor be on the list next year? So Roos slams their skills then rewards the same clanger merchants with new deals. I don't understand why we have jumped the gun and signed the likes of Matt jones, Riley, bail and Terlich . No other club would be remotely interested in any of these blokes. If we don't add 7 to 9 players to our 22 next year we will be exactly the same as this year

Just because they're signed doesn't mean they'll be best 22. Anyone not resigned at this point is going to be replaced by better players.

But all the names being mentioned as being delisted haven't been involved in this season. So the ones responsible for the crap we have dished up in the last two months will still be at the club. Terrific. God only hopes they are being retained as depth. If this ship isn't turned around over the next year the MFC is beyond repair. I still come back to the fact that Roos has said that if you can't kick or mark you won't be on the list, yet here we are rewarding those exact types with new contracts before we have even looked at what is on the market. To me that is staggering

But all the names being mentioned as being delisted haven't been involved in this season. So the ones responsible for the crap we have dished up in the last two months will still be at the club. Terrific. God only hopes they are being retained as depth. If this ship isn't turned around over the next year the MFC is beyond repair. I still come back to the fact that Roos has said that if you can't kick or mark you won't be on the list, yet here we are rewarding those exact types with new contracts before we have even looked at what is on the market. To me that is staggering

You're talking like they'd have made us better.

They rank below the players turning in the performances we're unhappy with. Below.

The idea is to move them on, replace them with better players, and the replacements then push the likes of Bail, Terlich and Riley into the position Strauss, Blease and Taspcott have had this year. Then they'll get moved on.

After 60 years of playing and watching the game bb you are correct.

My observation is that 90% of players who are ordinary licks at 18 are still ordinary at 30.

The odd one that improves are the exception and I can honestly say I have never seen a poor kicker become great.

Have never seen a poor kick become great! Russell Robertson, Lindsay Thomas, the list goes on.

As I said, I hope that is the case Titan..coz we ain't going anywhere with those three in our 22. I don't know what you were confused about in my post, coz I never said the Strauss' or Bleases were going to make us better. I said that they haven't played this year so the players who have are more responsible for the disgraceful performances. Therefore when Roos laments the shocking skills and says you can't be on an afl list who is he referring to exactly? Exactly who from the 22 who faced gws are facing the axe?

As I said, I hope that is the case Titan..coz we ain't going anywhere with those three in our 22. I don't know what you were confused about in my post, coz I never said the Strauss' or Bleases were going to make us better. I said that they haven't played this year so the players who have are more responsible for the disgraceful performances. Therefore when Roos laments the shocking skills and says you can't be on an afl list who is he referring to exactly? Exactly who from the 22 who faced gws are facing the axe?

Yes but as I said we can't delist everyone.

We're delisting the worst players on our list. Unfortunately they didn't all play against GWS. But the idea is that we can bring in better players who will take their spots, moving players like Bail, Terlich and RIley to Casey.

We aren't going to delist all our players who have poor skills. Some we will work on, some we will aim to move down the pecking order through 2015, and some we will delist this year.

Our disposal efficiency is only good because we play kick to kick 15m apart in the backline half the game.

Our disposal efficiency is only good because we play kick to kick 15m apart in the backline half the game.

until we fluff it !!!

Yes but as I said we can't delist everyone.

We're delisting the worst players on our list. Unfortunately they didn't all play against GWS. But the idea is that we can bring in better players who will take their spots, moving players like Bail, Terlich and RIley to Casey.

We aren't going to delist all our players who have poor skills. Some we will work on, some we will aim to move down the pecking order through 2015, and some we will delist this year.

I think the point that most are missing is the likes of Bail this year has improved and he would be in our top 10 performers this year. That shows the strength ( weakness) of our list. To me Bail is a keeper but for us to be successful you want either dramatic improvement from him ( IMO not likely) or you want him to be the 20th best player on our list. My issue with Bail is not that he is not handy footballer - my issue is that the club should have a whole lot better than him and we don't

So basically every player involved in that loss to GWS Keillor be on the list next year? So Roos slams their skills then rewards the same clanger merchants with new deals. I don't understand why we have jumped the gun and signed the likes of Matt jones, Riley, bail and Terlich . No other club would be remotely interested in any of these blokes. If we don't add 7 to 9 players to our 22 next year we will be exactly the same as this year

We need to delist 15 IMO. Someone correct me but the last two years we delisted 10 and 12 I think.

Its not impossible to delist or trade 15 but there is no doubt a law of diminishing returns.

Agree jnrmac I would be looking at delisting 15. The 'we can't delist everyone' argument is what worries me. Our list needs to turnover 60-70% not a handful

FFS. Watch a game.

Jesus...Calm down......Was just relaying a stat that was on the AFL web site

Didn't say I agreed or didn't......

We need to delist 15 IMO. Someone correct me but the last two years we delisted 10 and 12 I think.

Its not impossible to delist or trade 15 but there is no doubt a law of diminishing returns.

I think we need to delist more than 15 over the next two to three years, but that is the timeframe where the returns should be quality.

If you draft and recruit well...

And jnrmac - 23 Primary List spots in the last two years and 6 Rookie List spots. Of the new players: 4 have already left, 10 are kids, 6 of the mature age players are best 22, and the other 8 are depth players (Clisby represents twice so it is 28 unique individuals).

12 of the 28 won't amount to much. Cross will be gone in a year. Hunt, Harmes, King, and Barry have not shown much at any level of footy.

So 17 of the 28 might not be here in 14 months time...

Quality of changes, not quantity...

On kicking more generally, Todd Viney is the best proof that someone can improve their kicking - he was pretty ordinary for most of his career but became near elite in the latter stages.

No Todd was never near elite, he did improve though. Robbo was the one who really improved his kicking from an ordinary start.