on today's performance you'd axe the whole lot of them save for about a handful.

however, moving on more than 10 players in one off-season is simply impossible.

No its not. We got rid of 9 last year (not including rookies) and 11 the year before.

It can be done. Easily actually. All depends on the pain you want to create and the culture you want to change.

grimes wont be captain next year.

when was the last time a team delisted/traded their captain?

Don't quote me on this but I'm fairly sure Lance Whitnall was captain the year he got delisted.

I personally don't think Grimes will be delisted or traded out but I definitely agree he won't remain in the captaincy. Nate Jones is still the only one worthy.

West Coast took Cale Morton. Enough said.

I think they took him as some sort of tax write off.

Demon Andrew we fairly recently delisted 14 at end of '12

edit ( I forgot )

and effectively 12 at the end of last season

Have seen nothing to suspect a similar "cull" come this seasons end

we need wholesale change to implement the real changes required at this place

Edited July 13, 201411 yr by beelzebub

I doubt there will be too many players involved in trades. More likely, I suspect Roos and co will adopt the same approach as last year and use one or two of our higher picks for some more established players - especially if Frawley leaves.

Players on the chopping block will be those who have been around a while and can't break into the side. There are plenty of them around including Tapscott, Blease and Strauss for starters. Dan Nicholson is another. And as guys like Salem and Barry come on and Trengove comes back, pressure will come on guys like Bail, Terlich, McKenzie and Matt Jones. Even Grimes.

I suspect Watts, as one of only 3 or 4 genuinely good kicks in the team, will be safe for now. We aren't suffering for endeavour, we lack skills once we get the ball and fail to hurt the opposition. The greatest improvement will come as we cycle out blokes who can't kick or make decisions for those who can. As I said, we have plenty of them to choose from.

I doubt there will be too many players involved in trades. More likely, I suspect Roos and co will adopt the same approach as last year and use one or two of our higher picks for some more established players - especially if Frawley leaves.

Players on the chopping block will be those who have been around a while and can't break into the side. There are plenty of them around including Tapscott, Blease and Strauss for starters. Dan Nicholson is another. And as guys like Salem and Barry come on and Trengove comes back, pressure will come on guys like Bail, Terlich, McKenzie and Matt Jones. Even Grimes.

I suspect Watts, as one of only 3 or 4 genuinely good kicks in the team, will be safe for now. We aren't suffering for endeavour, we lack skills once we get the ball and fail to hurt the opposition. The greatest improvement will come as we cycle out blokes who can't kick or make decisions for those who can. As I said, we have plenty of them to choose from.

Pretty much reflect my feelings RD

Said this before and got crucified, My daughter loves/likes/adores/dreamsabout/thinks hes cute and will even stand up and fight for JW.

But in the cold grey melbourne weather,when common sense prevails,she looks at me and says,not a wing attack or wing defense.

I strongly believe PR will sort the list out and trade for the better, {he is good at it} hang on to your hats, the ride begins at trade time and will continue until he gets what he wants.

ATM he is just laying down the law for next year, so some players are getting tired after their first PR season, and some players are not up to the PR season, don't worry, he WILL sort it out.

Also, i was lambasted for saying JH hasn't played as yet and PR would trade him in a heartbeat if a win was there for the club. I still believe if he had too he would.

agreed jazza... with your daughter & You.

Roosy isn't here to make the finals, or coach us in Finals; his tenure is to sort us out. To get this club ship shape. From there, IMO the next coach will take the reigns, & proceed. With Roosy in the back seat overseeing the footy side, to maintain it stays sailing & straight.

Pretty much reflect my feelings RD

Except we might have some players that might garner a little interest. Might sweeten a pie or two.

We need to be a tad brutal here, for the good of the club

Except we might have some players that might garner a little interest. Might sweeten a pie or two.

We need to be a tad brutal here, for the good of the club

Brutal is a good word to use. For all our bluster as supporters we can be terribly soft when it comes to the crunch on players, like Blease and Tapscott, in the overall hope they come good. It's understandable but we can't hold on to that hope any longer. We cut them and move on as quickly as we can.

Brutal is a good word to use. For all our bluster as supporters we can be terribly soft when it comes to the crunch on players, like Blease and Tapscott, in the overall hope they come good. It's understandable but we can't hold on to that hope any longer. We cut them and move on as quickly as we can.

100% agree. This to me is part of setting the bar higher... you do it forcibly. Try and be nice, and we have, over and over and it just comes back to bite you with very large and sharp teeth.

I doubt there will be too many players involved in trades. More likely, I suspect Roos and co will adopt the same approach as last year and use one or two of our higher picks for some more established players - especially if Frawley leaves.

Players on the chopping block will be those who have been around a while and can't break into the side. There are plenty of them around including Tapscott, Blease and Strauss for starters. Dan Nicholson is another. And as guys like Salem and Barry come on and Trengove comes back, pressure will come on guys like Bail, Terlich, McKenzie and Matt Jones. Even Grimes.

I suspect Watts, as one of only 3 or 4 genuinely good kicks in the team, will be safe for now. We aren't suffering for endeavour, we lack skills once we get the ball and fail to hurt the opposition. The greatest improvement will come as we cycle out blokes who can't kick or make decisions for those who can. As I said, we have plenty of them to choose from.

The question you should then ask is what would you take for Watts? Would you take a pick from 10-20? Would anyone offer that?

I would take it at this point.

FYI if anyone is interested in contract status there is a constantly updated list at http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/player-contracts-thread.767361/

Current status:

Contracted to End of 2014

Rohan Bail
Sam Blease
Shannon Byrnes
James Frawley
Alexis Georgiou (Assumed, as a 2013 rookie)
James Harmes (Assumed, as a 2013 rookie)
Neville Jetta (Assumed, as a 2013 rookie)
Max King (Assumed, as a 2013 rookie)
James Strauss
Luke Tapscott
Dean Terlich (Assumed, as a 2012 draftee)

Contracted to End of 2015

Daniel Cross
Michael Evans
Jack Fitzpatrick
Colin Garland
Max Gawn
Jeremy Howe
Jayden Hunt (Assumed, as a 2013 draftee)
Mark Jamar
Nathan Jones
Jay Kennedy-Harris (Assumed, as a 2013 draftee)
Jordie McKenzie
Cameron Pedersen
Christian Salem (Assumed, as a 2013 draftee)
Jimmy Toumpas
Jack Trengove
Jack Viney

Contracted to End of 2016

Dom Barry
Chris Dawes
Jack Grimes
Matt Jones
Dean Kent
Tom McDonald
Jake Spencer
Bernie Vince (Performance Optioned to 2017)
Jack Watts

Contracted to End of 2017

Lynden Dunn
Jesse Hogan

TBC

Mitch Clisby (upgraded rookie)
Viv Michie
Daniel Nicholson
Aidan Riley
Dom Tyson
Maia Westrupp (International Scholarship)

Suggest Evans, Fitz, McKenzie are very, very lucky.

Garland missed the the whole pre-season after Christmas. Him being in bad form isn't shocking.

there it is again! My favourite! The old interrupted pre-season get out of jail free card. Where missing some training is an excuse to be rubbish 7 months later. Why don't we just put every player that gets injured in the PS on ice, long-term injury list so they can be cherry ripe for the following preseason, where, hopefully they will not get interrupted again. As we know these are delicate little flowers and just because they are declared fit and selected to play doesn't mean we should expect them to be any good on the field. FMD.

there it is again! My favourite! The old interrupted pre-season get out of jail free card. Where missing some training is an excuse to be rubbish 7 months later. Why don't we just put every player that gets injured in the PS on ice, long-term injury list so they can be cherry ripe for the following preseason, where, hopefully they will not get interrupted again. As we know these are delicate little flowers and just because they are declared fit and selected to play doesn't mean we should expect them to be any good on the field. FMD.

Garland is playing poor football but I think there is no chance he will be traded/delisted. Certainly a long way off his best and its not fitness that appears to be the problem.

Well this thread is the classic emotional filled reaction I expect from Demonland.

We aren't very good right now and Geelong are very good right now. Doesn't mean you sack everyone.

The question you should then ask is what would you take for Watts? Would you take a pick from 10-20? Would anyone offer that?

I would take it at this point.

I'm not sure I would, because as one of the few players in the team with a critical skill there is a fair chance we would be going backwards if we trade him for a pick. While he may not be worth a top ten pick to another side, I think he possibly is to us, certainly in the near term.

I'd rather use the three top 20 picks we'll probably have and get rid of as much of the multiple pieces of dead wood on the list as we can. I think we'll have enough room to move without trading a Watts or Howe and will get more bang for our buck that way.

there it is again! My favourite! The old interrupted pre-season get out of jail free card. Where missing some training is an excuse to be rubbish 7 months later. Why don't we just put every player that gets injured in the PS on ice, long-term injury list so they can be cherry ripe for the following preseason, where, hopefully they will not get interrupted again. As we know these are delicate little flowers and just because they are declared fit and selected to play doesn't mean we should expect them to be any good on the field. FMD.

You build your foundation through pre season. Its what sets up your year through the fitness and strength base you build through that.

Miss a fair chunk of that and it will catch up to you, just ask Dom Tyson, Jack Viney and Christian Salem.

FYI if anyone is interested in contract status there is a constantly updated list at http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/player-contracts-thread.767361/

Current status:

Contracted to End of 2014

Rohan Bail

Sam Blease

Shannon Byrnes

James Frawley

Alexis Georgiou (Assumed, as a 2013 rookie)

James Harmes (Assumed, as a 2013 rookie)

Neville Jetta (Assumed, as a 2013 rookie)

Max King (Assumed, as a 2013 rookie)

James Strauss

Luke Tapscott

Dean Terlich (Assumed, as a 2012 draftee)

Contracted to End of 2015

Daniel Cross

Michael Evans

Jack Fitzpatrick

Colin Garland

Max Gawn

Jeremy Howe

Jayden Hunt (Assumed, as a 2013 draftee)

Mark Jamar

Nathan Jones

Jay Kennedy-Harris (Assumed, as a 2013 draftee)

Jordie McKenzie

Cameron Pedersen

Christian Salem (Assumed, as a 2013 draftee)

Jimmy Toumpas

Jack Trengove

Jack Viney

Contracted to End of 2016

Dom Barry

Chris Dawes

Jack Grimes

Matt Jones

Dean Kent

Tom McDonald

Jake Spencer

Bernie Vince (Performance Optioned to 2017)

Jack Watts

Contracted to End of 2017

Lynden Dunn

Jesse Hogan

TBC

Mitch Clisby (upgraded rookie)

Viv Michie

Daniel Nicholson

Aidan Riley

Dom Tyson

Maia Westrupp (International Scholarship)

Maia Westrupp sounds like a Euro supermodel.

Thinking Leuenberger may be available. Martin is in crash hot form, and if they watched him at us they will know he will only be this good if given 1st ruck responsibilities. Then they've got West in reserve.

Wonder whether we may make a play.

Brutal is a good word to use. For all our bluster as supporters we can be terribly soft when it comes to the crunch on players, like Blease and Tapscott, in the overall hope they come good. It's understandable but we can't hold on to that hope any longer. We cut them and move on as quickly as we can.

They should both play out the season in the ones. At best, they save themselves or another side sees value in them as a project. At worst, we are certain they're not good enough and can move on.

Thinking Leuenberger may be available. Martin is in crash hot form, and if they watched him at us they will know he will only be this good if given 1st ruck responsibilities. Then they've got West in reserve.

Wonder whether we may make a play.

And they could possibly snare Peter Wright with one of their picks as well. Leuenberger would be worth a look, although his injury history doesn't fill me with confidence.

By my reckoning there are 15 on our list that are candidates for delisting or trading (depending on contract status).

The stats for turnovers are clear. Get rid of all those that continually turn the ball over. They kill confidence. If you look at our stats for the year its turnovers where we are scored most heavily against. Fix that up and we very competitive. A lot of our backline are guilty of this but Grimes, Terlich have to be under serious pressure. Roos got rid of Terlich once. He'll do it again I suspect. Grimes is a such a hard one because he is such a trier and clearly an upstanding bloke but his flaws are very deep.

I have some sympathy because our midfielders don't run and spread enough, That does make it harder for the backline. But guys like Nicho, Terlich and Grimes are consistently bad. I'd actually have McDonald in there as well but he has a lot of other strong credentials and has just been re-signed so is not going anywhere.

Next we have to look at players that can't or won't run. Plenty of those.

Watts lost me last year. He is soft in the xtreme. Skills are excellent but you can't have a player like that who won't run, tackle and cant win a one on one without destroying team ethics.

Frawley has clearly gone. The footy world knows it. He is playing like it. He is worth more to us gone than with us. Tell us now Chip so we can plan.

McKenzie is a one trick pony whose one trick is no longer good. Spencer has been re-signed and I love his attack on the footy but his lack of skills detract seriously from any benefit his mongrel provides.

Evans, Tappy, Strauss, Blease, MJones, FItzy and Clisby have to be gone and along with Byrnes and Clark.

We need mids with skills who can run and defenders who can kick and make decisions under pressure. This all needs fixing before we consider a fwd line. I can't believe how f&^%&^d we are.

These thirteen are certainly in the gun. I concur. There's no way they'll trade Watts. His disposal is too damaging. Once we get up and running, he'll be a dangerous weapon. He's shown improvement this year, as has Matt Jones. The rest have either not played or struggled. Jones might get a stay of execution, but I don't think the other twelve will.

Whilst we've got solid citizens and not raw talent running through the midfield - M Jones, McKenzie, Rielly, Cross, Bail etc - we're always going to struggle.

I think M Jones, McKenzie, Evans, Blease, Bail & Nico all have to be moved on as whilst all honest don't have what it takes for an AFL midfield.

all those and probably Terlich and Tapscott

Garland is playing poor football but I think there is no chance he will be traded/delisted. Certainly a long way off his best and its not fitness that appears to be the problem.

Really????

He kept Bartel to 15 touches and 1 goal 1. He only had 8 touches himself and is still working back from a fair ot of time off but I would have thought that was a win for him on the day. I recon out defence stood up well yesterday. It was the same old story of the midfield getting spanked starving our forwards of quality ball and our defence on a hiding to nothing.

I dont think anyone in our defence will volunatrily be let go. They have done a good job all year as well as being plucked clean to fill vacancies in the forward line. The vast majority will go from the midfield. The backroom will be trawling the comp looking for developed class to fill mifdfield gaps as a priority. Delisted will be Blease, Strauss, Nicho and Tappy. There will be a whole bunch on the trade table as well but that could be anyone.