Umpires

[AzzKikA 2,371]

We all complain about them, no matter the team. But umpires are an important part of the game, i just wish they stopped acting like an important part of the game.

When I umpired for the VAFA years ago, the first rule that was taught was to be forgettable. That means follow the rules to the letter but go about it in a way to not attract attention to yourself. Now it's like a prancing display of dickheadism. Really irks me they way the show pony around like bloody peacocks acting important but doing a halfassed job.

But the worst thing is the fact that they are not held accountable for their sometimes eyebrow raising decisions. Why are they allowed to go about their JOBS and continually screw it up? When players screw up they get dropped. If you or I screw up at work there would be consequences. What are their consequences?

I think that there should be a a system for them where they "earn" demerit points and when they have accumulated a certain amount then they get suspended.

I'm sure i will be shot down but i had to say something.

Thoughts?

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

We all complain about them, no matter the team. But umpires are an important part of the game, i just wish they stopped acting like an important part of the game.

When I umpired for the VAFA years ago, the first rule that was taught was to be forgettable. That means follow the rules to the letter but go about it in a way to not attract attention to yourself. Now it's like a prancing display of dickheadism. Really irks me they way the show pony around like bloody peacocks acting important but doing a halfassed job.

But the worst thing is the fact that they are not held accountable for their sometimes eyebrow raising decisions. Why are they allowed to go about their JOBS and continually screw it up? When players screw up they get dropped. If you or I screw up at work there would be consequences. What are their consequences?

I think that there should be a a system for them where they "earn" demerit points and when they have accumulated a certain amount then they get suspended.

I'm sure i will be shot down but i had to say something.

Thoughts?

I'm really struggling with the visual imagery you've presented.

As to the issue itself, don't forget the umpires are part timers. Personally, I think the umpires are not helped by the rules themselves and the expectation that the AFL seems to have (wrongly in my view) that one of the umpires jobs is to ensure the game is played in an entertaining way.

[jnrmac 20,189]

Mods. please chg the title of this thread to MAGGOTS.

[nutbean 8,838]

We all complain about them, no matter the team. But umpires are an important part of the game, i just wish they stopped acting like an important part of the game.

When I umpired for the VAFA years ago, the first rule that was taught was to be forgettable. That means follow the rules to the letter but go about it in a way to not attract attention to yourself. Now it's like a prancing display of dickheadism. Really irks me they way the show pony around like bloody peacocks acting important but doing a halfassed job.

But the worst thing is the fact that they are not held accountable for their sometimes eyebrow raising decisions. Why are they allowed to go about their JOBS and continually screw it up? When players screw up they get dropped. If you or I screw up at work there would be consequences. What are their consequences?

I think that there should be a a system for them where they "earn" demerit points and when they have accumulated a certain amount then they get suspended.

I'm sure i will be shot down but i had to say something.

Thoughts?

Two things

- if you imposed that sort of system on umpires you wouldn't have on left with no umpires coming through the system - would make the job far too unappealing.

- I have some far too many appalling decisions this season - I again will re-iterate I don't think I have seen umpiring actually cost a team the game. I have seen far too many games when umpires have cost me my enjoyment of the game.

[Nasher 33,617]

Mods. please chg the title of this thread to MAGGOTS.

I assume you are only joking, nonetheless I strongly disagree that it's ever appropriate to call umpires that. Especially when at most levels, they're doing it in their own time.

[DemonWheels 1,091]

I tend to agree. I think the umpiring this year has really started to turn me off footy. Melbourne has definitely been on the good end and the bad end of it at times so I think it all balances up eventually - but it shouldn't have to come to that - it should be accurate. The changing of the guard in terms of the Umpire's Coach in 2014 has essentially changed the game for me - what happened to 'holding/dropping the ball'?

Given how much we pay the players and how much cash the AFL generates surely we can afford to pay the officiators of our game full time wages?

[Moonshadow 17,677]

Jeez, Razor Ray is useless. Just stopped a certain hawk goal cause he thought he heard the siren (incorrectly). Nice confusion Ray.

[monoccular 17,575]

Regardless of the ¾ time error, I reckon the maggots tonight have overall been by far the best I have seen for years.

Few if any tigy touchwoods, especially when players put their heads down into a tackle. And a few well rewarded tackles.

[chookrat 4,268]

I assume you are only joking, nonetheless I strongly disagree that it's ever appropriate to call umpires that. Especially when at most levels, they're doing it in their own time.

WHITE MAGGOTS!!

[rjay 25,093]

Regardless of the ¾ time error, I reckon the maggots tonight have overall been by far the best I have seen for years.

Few if any tigy touchwoods, especially when players put their heads down into a tackle. And a few well rewarded tackles.

...and they didn't let the game develop into mauls, blew the whistle and got on with it.

Be interesting to see if this continues for the weekend and beyond. My guess is it won't.

[bjDee 1,249]

Full of sympathy for umpires as a former suburban grand final boundary umpire, but still can't help laughing when my bomber mate calls them "glorified gloworms".

[RalphiusMaximus 6,088]

I agree 100% with the OP. I think it can be summed up with a singe word, UNPROFESSIONAL. As I've said before, there is no real oversight or governance in place to ensure that they are doing the job to the highest possible standard, there's no penalty if they stuff up and because of the point raised above by Nutbean, the AFL is terrified to even try to impose some sort of order on them. Heaven forbid that the poor precious flowers are actually exposed to justified criticism and dropped to a lower league if their performance isn't up to scratch.

[titan_uranus 25,045]

Jeez, Razor Ray is useless. Just stopped a certain hawk goal cause he thought he heard the siren (incorrectly). Nice confusion Ray.

He did everything right in that situation.

After some recent disasters with umpires not hearing the siren over raucous crowds and letting the game go too long, they have been trained (correctly) to end the quarter based on when they hear the noise in their earpiece. Takes the crowd out of it and ensures that the siren is heard by everyone at the same time.

In this instance the fault is with whoever caused either the earpiece sound to go early, or the siren to go late (so probably the timekeepers). Either way, Ray did exactly what he should have done.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,305]

I tend to agree. I think the umpiring this year has really started to turn me off footy. Melbourne has definitely been on the good end and the bad end of it at times so I think it all balances up eventually - but it shouldn't have to come to that - it should be accurate. The changing of the guard in terms of the Umpire's Coach in 2014 has essentially changed the game for me - what happened to 'holding/dropping the ball'?

Given how much we pay the players and how much cash the AFL generates surely we can afford to pay the officiators of our game full time wages?

The umpiring over the last decade has continued to steadily deteriorate every single year. Bad decisions will always be made, it's the deliberate attempt to manipulate the aesthetics of the game through changing "interpretations" and inconsistent application of the rules that is what infuriates me. Half the time it is the reason I turn off a game, you know there's something wrong when your cracking it at umpiring decisions in neutral games. The holding the ball rule is completely broken and the umpires have no feel at all for the game, I would be surprised if any of them have ever played the game at any level.

[Bergly Sanders 45]

Nobody counts the good calls, do they? "Where the umpire set the mark, that was spot on." "The umpire made a really good decision when they didn't call high on that, because that guy was obviously staging." How many times do they get this stuff right in a match, only to be said to LOSE MY TEAM THE GAME when they make one controversial call?

Just think about it. The umpire's paralax is different to the TV cameras, both of which are different to that of individual members of the crowd. If they miss someone dragging it in, because it's on the other side of the body, but the audience can see it, it's a bad call. If they call it because they can see it and the crowd can't, it's THE WORST CALL EVER THEY'RE OUT TO GET MY TEAM.

Not saying they don't make mistakes, of course they do. As others have said here, it doesn't help that they're told what to focus on, and given new interpretations of new rules to implement on a weekly basis. Those complaining of chainging the aestethic of the game through interpretation: aesthetic changes are codified into rules anyhow (e.g.: not having 30 players on each team leads to a much more fluid game).

Anyway, if you found data (somehow) of correct vs incorrect calls (as reviewed by the umpires post match---which they do, of course), my guess is that the former would far outweight the latter...

Edited July 12, 2014 by Bergly Sanders

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Both of these resulted in goals to Hawkins.

This is what annoys me about umpiring, the inconsistency when the same thing would happen later in the game and a free kick would be paid.

[rjay 25,093]

Both of these resulted in goals to Hawkins.

This is what annoys me about umpiring, the inconsistency when the same thing would happen later in the game and a free kick would be paid.

Really good pick up 'Clint' and it really annoys the hell out of me no matter what game I'm watching. It's not about rules anymore it's about which way the coin comes down, heads or tails.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Really good pick up 'Clint' and it really annoys the hell out of me no matter what game I'm watching. It's not about rules anymore it's about which way the coin comes down, heads or tails.

I thought that in the first four or so rounds the umpires seemed to be letting more go and were only paying the really obvious decisions.

This is good becuase by doing this they are far more likely to be consistent. If they are paying every little soft decision then as soon as they miss one of these (which will happen becuase of the nature of the game) then all of the sudden they are inconsistent.

Umpires will never be 100% consistent but I believe that by only paying the obvious ones they will be far more consistent.

[rjay 25,093]

I thought that in the first four or so rounds the umpires seemed to be letting more go and were only paying the really obvious decisions.

This is good becuase by doing this they are far more likely to be consistent. If they are paying every little soft decision then as soon as they miss one of these (which will happen becuase of the nature of the game) then all of the sudden they are inconsistent.

Umpires will never be 100% consistent but I believe that by only paying the obvious ones they will be far more consistent.

The trouble with this approach is twofold. One for a start it is not their job to ignore the rules of the game, they need to enforce them. If the rules are not working change them. Two is that they are always going to pull one decision out of the box and an inappropriate time of the game and of course the umpires bosses can always say its the correct decision as it's in the rules, those same rules they ignored for the rest of the game.

I believe the game needs to be umpired to the rules. It is becoming a dumb game to watch now.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

The trouble with this approach is twofold. One for a start it is not their job to ignore the rules of the game, they need to enforce them. If the rules are not working change them. Two is that they are always going to pull one decision out of the box and an inappropriate time of the game and of course the umpires bosses can always say its the correct decision as it's in the rules, those same rules they ignored for the rest of the game.

I believe the game needs to be umpired to the rules. It is becoming a dumb game to watch now.

Yes, but if every little decision is paid then think of how many of those little decisions will not be paid becuase an umpire is blind-sided or it happens very quickly.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

I think holding the ball only applies to N.Jones. Twice gang tacked even before taking possession of the ball and didn't make a genuine attempt to get rid of it...fine pay that but do it every time you morons, ludicrous.

Consistency is the key and if i was to define the word consistent it would be a adjective: acting or done in the same way over time, especially so as to be fair or accurate.

Certainly does not sound like the state of our umpiring department ATM.

[CityDee 738]

Difficult job and I agree that we need to take it easy or it would be hard to bring the umps through from junior raks etc because of lack of numbers.I do however think the dees get a bad deal with the umps re-non calls and bad decisions against us, the umps are against us or do not respect us imo, annoys the hell out of me. almost as much as watching us play like we did against the cats.

[chookrat 4,268]

I have sympathy for the white maggots who have a harder job now that they are being asked not only to adjudicate the rules but also manipulate them to influence the style of play in a given game. We tend to get caught 'holding the ball' probably more than other teams because we are seen as trying to slow the tempo. This is also why the incorrect disposal rule is confusing. The game used to reward the tackler if the player dropped the ball in a tackle but now if it spills out in the tackle the umpires let it go because the ball is in play.

The maggots are doing an admirable job under the circumstances.

[Beats 190]

The umpires hold internal reviews after every round, they get dropped based on form, just as players do. There's normally some form of discussion during the week on SEN with Wayne Campbell about the umpiring reviews.

If you want to make the umpiring reviews transparent they need to be paid (danger money) full time wages. Because seriously, who's going to want to be an umpire for $50,000 p.a. (approx 30 hour week incl weekends) when you get your name dragged through the mud on the front and back pages of every paper, have no supporters and a million haters (big difference to the players who at least have the support of their fans). All it does is make it easier for the drugged up bogan to identify you and have a serious dig at you while you're walking down the street.

Keep the rules consistent and easy to umpire and the majority of umpiring errors will be removed from the game.

[rjay 25,093]

Yes, but if every little decision is paid then think of how many of those little decisions will not be paid becuase an umpire is blind-sided or it happens very quickly.

...but it doesn't mean we just let them go, if it's a problem then change the rules.

Football has always been a difficult game to umpire with interpretation being a big part of it. What I don't like is that the interpretation changes from Q to Q, game to game, week to week and often umpire to umpire.

The thing that I really dislike though is the way the interpretations are being used in a misguided attempt to provide continuous football. It's this that philosophy that plays a big part in the current rugby maul that has come into the game. Pay the decision quickly and move on.