Post Match Discussion - Round 14

[Cards13 9,117]

Skills skills skills or our complete lack of and North ran way harder both ways than we did end of story.

[Coq au vin 755]

Don't agree on Watts today. He was handpassed it quite a few times and the ran backwards or sideways indecisively then turned it over, grimes and macdonald are the turnover kings though. Dunn and jamar worked hard. Frawley could have done a lot better.

[rjay 24,815]

Disagree on Garland - I thought he was pretty soft today. A couple of times he needed to get back into a pack and just stopped and watched the ball go over his head. Looked lost a few times and slow at others. Really nothing out of today's game was a positive IMO. We know it's there, hopefully it comes back.

Yep, I noticed the same 'titan'. He needed to back back hard and make a contest but instead left his teammate one out.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Skills skills skills or our complete lack of and North ran way harder both ways than we did end of story.

North as a team unit have been together for a while now and they have experienced hard bodies on most lines; we are a group cobbled together by Roos and lack the cohesion of a good top 8 side.

We should be in the same position as they are but a series of drafting blunders and some poor coaching has resulted in us starting from scratch, we were the ones who were supposed to have the great bunch of kids who would have been on their 5 the year or more of development. We have to live with that and today will make us acutely aware that we have a way to go; there's not a lot at Casey and the players that need to go back won't get much help when they do.

It's not wrist slashing time it's just another lesson that hopefully the players will learn and it will tell Roos a lot about the group he has at the moment. It will let him know who goes missing when the heats on and I dare say they won't be on the list at years end.

[Demon Stalwart 255]

Was at the game tonight it was very simple , North skills both Foot and by hand were far better than Melbourne. Our decision making let us down .

and we certainly failed across the CHF line were we need to find some one to hit up as target , that's were the ball was turned over consistently and the rebound occurred.

How good was North ? Well I reckon were they are on the ladder is where they should be .

They also made some dreadful decisions just not as many as us .

In fact at one stage it was a comedy of errors by both sides .

How good is Melbourne , based on tonight's game Id say we are were we belong .

That doesn't mean we cant get better we have already come a long way from were we where .

However we need more consistent players then we have , recruitment is what is needed .

But in all honesty I still saw some football from the DEES that I haven't seen in a long time .

Disappointed YES !

Shattered NO !

We will win a few more games but lose a lot more too .

I cant wait for next year, this year is definitely a building year

Keep the faith guys and go Roos' !!

Oh by the way did I say the Umpiring sucked as Usual !!!

[Earl Hood 6,082]

Don't agree on Watts today. He was handpassed it quite a few times and the ran backwards or sideways indecisively then turned it over, grimes and macdonald are the turnover kings though. Dunn and jamar worked hard. Frawley could have done a lot better.

What I saw of Watts today he is no way perfect, especially in defence but in offence he is a revelation on what I saw. In a great side he would be the icing. Today he did some great manoeuvres to get the ball to a forward. At least Jack is on the up.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Earl Hood

[InVINCEable 358]

Disappointed YES !

Shattered NO !

I'm shattered.

[DeeSpencer 25,383]

Yep, I noticed the same 'titan'. He needed to back back hard and make a contest but instead left his teammate one out.

At the same time we spoiled ourselves at times today as well with 3 up none down. Garland playing on Lindsay Thomas may have been designated as a small whilst Howe, McDonald, Dunn are the talls.

I think Garland is struggling with fitness, struggling with confidence a bit and mainly just adapting to Roos' more disciplined way of playing.

Last year he was amazing just attacking everything on the ground or in the air. He probably lacks the fitness to do that but also I'm sure there's a switch this year from desperate stopping the flood gates style defending to disciplined team defending.

Terlich's struggled having to reign in his game (too much I think). Jones is adjusting. Garland is probably the same.

[Yossarian 1,820]

Would love to see Nathan Jones take a jumping overhead mark. Contested marking is the only element of his game preventing him from becoming a true A-grader at this stage.

[DeeSpencer 25,383]

Most of our worst performances this year have come against teams with a man back.

I think Watts and Vince were two who realised you have to stream forward and drag the lose man away and find your targets out of the back 50 but then you have to actually work the play through the middle.

Basic circle work and no run from the backline wont beat a team with a loose man back. Especially when you are getting out run in the midfield and out muscled forward.

Any smart coach will have seen us struggle badly against teams dropping a man back in games against Sydney, St Kilda, Coll and North. We better be prepared for it.

More run from the back half and more skills holding the ball up and spreading it around and across the middle please.

In some ways I'm glad we lost today in a different manner to how we did against Coll and Sydney. Our efforts were better and harder at it in those games but at some stage you only learn so much from that footy. I don't want to be the Bulldogs in 2 years still just playing contested footy and that's it.

[Red and Bluebeard 2,083]

What I saw of Watts today he is no way perfect, especially in defence but in offence he is a revelation on what I saw. In a great side he would be the icing. Today he did some great manoeuvres to get the ball to a forward. At least Jack is on the up.

Especially when he nearly took the mark of the year (3rd quarter was it?)

[bing181 9,193]

Need a couple of players with great disposal and a bit of run coming off half-back. Which is exactly what we don't have with McDonald, Grimes, Howe, and to a lesser extent Garland, today they were all turnover kings. Pity perhaps that Toumpas isn't ready to slot in there, or that Watts behind the ball hasn't been pursued. I'm just not sure where the player(s) that we need there are going to come from, it's not as if Terlich or Clisby or even, cough cough, Blease are the answers either.

[Adam The God 30,063]

We overused the ball today. Some of it was induced by very good North pressure, but a lot of it was poor decision making under pressure. It's frustrating in the present, but hopefully we'll learn from games like this. With Roos as our coach, I'm confident we'll take lessons from today's game. I'd argue the North pressure was just as intense, if not more so than Collingwood's.

If some of the other top 8 sides bring that sort of intensity, I hate to think what sort of carnage they'll subject us to. We just couldn't deal with it. Hopefully, that changes.

What's more, there were patches in the game where we really let ourselves down with our levels of intensity. There were acceptable moments in the first two quarters and then again just after half time, but other than that, our work rate and intensity was below ordinary.

Vince was superb and along with Jones and Jamar, they really led the way in the first half. While when the going got tough in the third, it was those three that were still trying to impose themselves on the contest. Unfortunately, they had little support. Cross tried hard, but made some silly errors. Viney made consistently horrible decisions and turned the ball over. He looked a little lazy, never thought I'd say that about him. Didn't feel he wanted to pick up an opponent, but instead stood in no man's land a couple of times, hoping to intercept, but got caught out, big time. Bail struggled to have any impact - he finished with 3 tackles (two of those coming in the last) and 9 disposals. I don't think disposals are indicators for Bail, but I felt he was out positioned for most of the game. And he wasn't alone there. Garland and Grimes really, really struggled. I love Garland and I hope he can recapture some of his 2013 form, but over the last three weeks in particular, he's made crucial turn overs by foot which have cost us goals. After a decent display last week, Grimes returned to his old self. He's just a horrible, horrible decision maker.

Nevertheless, every time Watts got the ball, he made something happen. He really is a great decision maker. It really stood out, amongst all our poor decision making today. He also has the skills to execute. I still want more physicality though - that old chestnut. Dunn was decent in defence and with limited service, Frawley presented reasonably well in attack, although really struggled to get into the contest after half time. On Frawley, it was an interesting move from Roos at the start of the last. I'm not sure it says anything in particular, the game was already lost, but I wonder if it's telling (maybe he's on the brink of re-signing?) that Frawley was shifted back for the last? And despite being held at every opportunity, Dawes was good, although when the game was on the line, I felt he failed to really impact physically, in a meaningful way. The first time he laid his now signature crunching tackle, it resulted in a goal. He finished with four tackles for the game, but most of them came once the game was dusted. It says something for his spirit, work rate and dedication to the team, but a pity he couldn't bring 'it' earlier.

On the whole, we were severely out-played today. The way North set up their forwardline and their movement right across the ground was excellent. It left space for their team mates to run into or kick into and isolated our defenders. Our coaching team, clearly tried to readjust our defensive set up after quarter time and it worked for a little while early on in that quarter. However, North did all the things that I hope in time (soon), we begin to do. They laid clever bumps and blocks (how often do you see an MFC player block for his team mate?); they ran out of the space to allow others to run into it, thus pulling our defenders away from the contest; and finally, they consistently made better decisions with ball in hand. Yes, their work rate was far higher than ours and their intensity was ferocious, but in the end, it came down to decision making and the ability to execute skills under duress.

I think I must be crazy, because for some reason, I think we'll beat the Dogs next week. I think it might be their injuries, but I also hold out hope that we'll want to atone vigorously for today's horrible showing.

Edited June 22, 2014 by AdamFarr

[Wizza 170]

Atrocious skills tonight. It's sad but Grimes will never be the player we hoped he would. Never feel comfortable when he has the ball.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

What's happened to JKH and how is Toumpas traveling? Just a random question, don't know what thread to ask this in.

[SaberFang 7,151]

It might actually be better to rest some of our youngest, like Salem and JKH, than play them at Casey. The constant and miserable losses down there can't be good for team morale, either.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Lamashtu

[Adam The God 30,063]

40 points flattered us immensely. North were crap today. We were deplorable. Missing targets all game, many from 10-15 metres away. Handballing to players who are immediately under pressure. Laziness through the middle. Hesitation in the forward half. Just a dreadful performance.

Bernie, Jones and Cross can be very happy with their output.

My fear is that there are a couple who have managed to become sacred names, and they are plainly not up to this level.

Go on, P. Do tell.

Lazy effort today. Stop start. No running up the field. Kicking to position was atrocious with players continually sitting under the ball waiting to get smashed by some nobody Roos player.

Howe had his worst game for a long time. Either went up as a third man and took out two of his team mates or hit it to a Roos player.

Dean Kent hardly sighted. Viney did nothing. Salem looked tired. Pedo didn't seem to do anything and was surprised how many stats he had.

Bail was very ordinary. Jetta has his colours lowered. Jamare was smashed. Tyson was ineffective.

NJones tried hard but has to stop calling for the ball when he is in a bad position. Too many times today he ran behind a player looking for a cheap h/ball and he got pounced on.

Bernie was stellar.

Our kick ins were unbelievably repetitive. We would huddle. The Roos would zone. Dunn would chip to himself, run to the right side and shoot a low bullet to a 2 on 1.

Really disappointing day. They are a cra p football club with cra p supporters.

Agree with everything but the assertion that Jamar was smashed. He towelled up Goldstein, who usually kills us.

[Adam The God 30,063]

Especially when he nearly took the mark of the year (3rd quarter was it?)

Reminded me of the G Ablett Snr 'mark'. Watts' was more of a mark than his.

[DeeZee 7,361]

North -Clinical

Melbourne - Wasteful

We kept kicking ot to Scott Thompson all the time, played right into their hands.

[Pipefitter 2,149]

10 goals from turnovers. Thought we really went away from the game plan yesterday which would have angered Roosy the most. We were definitely not a hard team to play against yesterday.

[Demonland 71,129]

NO ILLUSIONS by The Oracle

The euphoria of last week's dramatic final minute victory over Essendon was quickly well and truly consigned into past history not long after the Melbourne team ran onto the MCG for its game against North Melbourne.

The reason for this was that the Demons' pedestrian style of football, limited skills and an insatiable capacity to constantly turn the ball over into an opponent's lap was never going to be enough to win them a game against quality opposition. Indeed it was only their accuracy in the first half that fully prevented the game from turning into a 2013 style blowout of epic proportions and instead they were left with a reality check and a 41-point defeat.

The Kangaroos applied the early heat but thanks to the extraordinary efforts of Bernie Vince who maintained great composure throughout the game, the Demons were still in the contest at the first break and clawed their way back in the second term after they fell four goals in arrears through some sloppy football. Early in the third, they threatened again when Chris Dawes goaled to leave them only seven points down despite being far inferior in almost every aspect of play.

It was at this stage that North upped the ante, applied the blow torch and booted six goals in ten minutes, most of them on the back of fumbly turnovers caused by poor disposal and stupid decision making. To its credit, Melbourne managed to regroup thanks to some positional changes at the end but the mistakes continued and prevented it from making any semblance of a come back.

The truth is that there is still a lack of players with the quality and flair of Vince who produced a stunning 41-possession game and the attack simply does not have the potency or depth of the better sides in the competition. There were times when one wondered where the next goal would come from. The ball was constantly bombed into an attack where the team was outnumbered and if the ball hit the ground there were no crumbing forwards to finish off the goals as we saw from the Kangaroos who had twelve goal kickers on the day to Melbourne's six.

This imbalance of forward strength was a major difference and a problem that will continue to dog the club for the remainder of the season with games against some of the competition's big hitters including Port Adelaide, Hawthorn, Fremantle, Geelong and a return game against North Melbourne to come. Despite the club's big steps forward the result of this game should leave us with no illusions that there is a long way to go.

Melbourne 3.0.18 6.0.36 8.4.52 10.6.66

North Melbourne 4.5.29 7.8.50 14.12.96 15.17.107

Goals

Melbourne Dawes Vince 3 Bail Frawley Pedersen Reilly

North Melbourne Greenwood Mullett Thomas 2 Atley Black Brown Cunnington Harvey Nahas Petrie Swallow Ziebell

Best

Melbourne Vince N Jones Cross Dunn M Jones Pedersen

North Melbourne Greenwood Dal Santo Thompson Petrie Harvey Ziebell Cunnington

Changes

Melbourne Nil

North Melbourne Nil

Injuries

Melbourne Watts (back)

North Melbourne Nahas (shoulder) Swallow (knee)

Reports

Melbourne Nil

North Melbourne Nil

Umpires Rosebury Bannister Fleer

Crowd 26,615 at the MCG

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,298]

Also, the kick-ins. The huddle may have worked last week, but it doesn't work when you do the same thing every time - Dunn plays on to himself, runs 5 metres, then kicks a beautiful long kick 50 metres down the line in the Jamar vicinity, where North Melbourne know it is going so they can either intercept the ball or stop our forward movement. As it always does at this club, it got too predictable too quickly.

FFS - Watts was one of our best today. He needs to make tackles stick, sure, but so do pretty much 21 other Melbourne players. Meanwhile at least Watts ran hard, presented, and hit a target when he kicked.

So Watts got a few kicks.....what impressed you the most? The way he took the game on and carved up the opposition? Or was it his hardness and and attack on the footy? Maybe I expect to much from a player who stands at 196cm, checks in at about 90kg's and has a abundance of natural talent. I personally think he could be better than he is currently showing us, and if we sit back as supporters and are content with that I can only hope that the coaches aren't.

[Demon trucker 1,800]

Too many stupid posters on this site, rob f u are one, u swing from one view to we are a power house, to total hopeless team. Really we;only were blown away for one qtr.

[Satyriconhome 10,675]

Too many stupid posters on this site, rob f u are one, u swing from one view to we are a power house, to total hopeless team. Really we;only were blown away for one qtr.

You are on Demonland, what do you expect?

I for one expected some time we would have a bump, we are not enough of a team yet to produce week in week out, this week was it, last week against Essendon was close, but this week we just couldn't lift when it was required

[Satyriconhome 10,675]

So Watts got a few kicks.....what impressed you the most? The way he took the game on and carved up the opposition? Or was it his hardness and and attack on the footy? Maybe I expect to much from a player who stands at 196cm, checks in at about 90kg's and has a abundance of natural talent. I personally think he could be better than he is currently showing us, and if we sit back as supporters and are content with that I can only hope that the coaches aren't.

Roos in his post match presser said along with Vince, Watts was one of our better players, good enough for you?