The free kick against Frawley is outrageous.

I simply cannot fathom how it's a free kick. He's allowed to stand and try and body out to take a chest mark.

Protecting the space to take a mark is a required skill!

This may be the case, but in a game in which we were the better side, things like that arguably cost us the win. Moreover, it came on the back of one of Grimes' best games as the loose defender. Why run this experiment now? Do it against Hawthorn or Geelong where it won't cost us a win.

Also could be that Roos thought Grimes was far and away the best match up for Griffen who has been running back into form. If Griffen really got away then it would have been match over much earlier.

I'm just throwing things up 'titan', not agreeing or disagreeing but I didn't have the emotional investment of being devastated with the loss. I could see steps forward and liked what I saw. I'm happy for Roos to do what Roos does for now.

Also could be that Roos thought Grimes was far and away the best match up for Griffen who has been running back into form. If Griffen really got away then it would have been match over much earlier.

I'm just throwing things up 'titan', not agreeing or disagreeing but I didn't have the emotional investment of being devastated with the loss. I could see steps forward and liked what I saw. I'm happy for Roos to do what Roos does for now.

I'm not having a go at you, I'm just saying that if Roos did decide to experiment a bit with Grimes, I don't think that was a good decision from him.

I'm not having a go at you, I'm just saying that if Roos did decide to experiment a bit with Grimes, I don't think that was a good decision from him.

It's ok I know you're not having a go. Just discussing the reasoning; it did seem odd after last weeks game from Grimes. Would really love to know why so just posting a few things that Roos may have considered.

Roos might tweak Salem soon with full runs in the magoos before elevation.

I think Salem is ready for a full run next week. Watching some highlights today and Salem's goal which was good but I loved the fact he celebrated by running out of his way to give Murphy a shove in the back to emphasis his efforts, this from a kid who has played 3 quarters of AFL! Looks lo me like he has some grunt as well as talent.

An ongoing frustration for Dees fans is how no name players e.g Crameri have a day out against us and then will disappear for the rest of the season. It's gone on for the 50 years I have been a supporter and it frustrates the hell out off me.

McDonald had a very bad day.

Really? Liam Jones had not the slightest influence on the game.

I don't understand the angst with Tom here. It's like people are just waiting for a fumble or miss kick so they can make a (poor) point.

He's been terrific this year and allowed Frawley to go forward.

I think Salem is ready for a full run next week. Watching some highlights today and Salem's goal which was good but I loved the fact he celebrated by running out of his way to give Murphy a shove in the back to emphasis his efforts, this from a kid who has played 3 quarters of AFL! Looks lo me like he has some grunt as well as talent.

well a full game will give him morris.

slowish,but loves to kidney punch and accidently fall on opposition players,besides giving them a hard time.

might not be the player we want him picked on by at this stage.

Really? Liam Jones had not the slightest influence on the game.

I don't understand the angst with Tom here. It's like people are just waiting for a fumble or miss kick so they can make a (poor) point.

He's been terrific this year and allowed Frawley to go forward.

Agree, he gets far too much criticism on here.

He does need to work on his kicking and at times gets out-bodied, but he has the balls, as well as the speed and endurance, to take the game on and hurt opposition forwards on the rebound. He also does the 1%s perfectly.

Really? Liam Jones had not the slightest influence on the game.

I don't understand the angst with Tom here. It's like people are just waiting for a fumble or miss kick so they can make a (poor) point.

He's been terrific this year and allowed Frawley to go forward.

I loved Todd Viney's tackle on Liam Jones which was featured in a photograph on page 40 of today's Herald-Sun. I hope that we don't get penalised next week for playing Todd when he wasn't named nor is he on our list!

Really? Liam Jones had not the slightest influence on the game.

I don't understand the angst with Tom here. It's like people are just waiting for a fumble or miss kick so they can make a (poor) point.

He's been terrific this year and allowed Frawley to go forward.

Agreed did a job on his man, that's all you can ask of the defender

My first post so I hope it's a good one!

Been reading you all for a long time and love the discussion and passion - I'm addicted.

I thought we were pretty scrappy all day and were lucky to be close to them at the end of the game.

I couldn't help thinking if only we'd had a player drop back loose to the goal square when the doggies had a ball up / boundary throw in inside their forward 50 we would have stopped 3 goals that went through along the ground out of a pack throughout the game. An absolute fundamental as far as defensive setup goes in my book - proven by Jobe Watson who did exactly that up in Brisbane this avo. Not a big deal to remove one player out of the 36 that are standing within the Doggies half for security.

All the same I loved our endeavour and we're heading in the right direction so pretty happy. Go Dees.

Welcome to demonland Eye, hope you enjoy your time here!

Byrne's should just retire, bring in Kent for him asap

Howe punched three that he could have marked all three went straight to bulldogs players

McDonald should have gone onto crameri

Tyson and viney will make a great midfield combo

Salem showed more good signs

Toumpas lack of impact at vfl level is a real concern

It was only two weeks ago where Toumpas had 36 touches and BOG. He is getting asked to play different roles as part of his development, mainly in the back line...

Pederson would be top 4 B&F. Anyone calling for him to be dropped doesn't watch the game to see how hard he works and competes.

My view of Pedersen was that he was an outstanding VFL player and i wasn't able to comprehend how poor he was for us last year. He's been a good contributor this year but I'd be very surprised if he was in the top 4 of the B+F ahead of N.Jones, Cross, Tyson, Vince, Grimes, McDonald, Dunn and Frawley and Matt Jones may be shading him as well. What we are going to see - and it's a a great thing - is that soon players that deserve games are going to miss out. The reality for Pedersen is that he either plays as an undersized backup ruck or hes competing with Howe and Watts for a spot in the side as a tall utility. If they want to have Gawn as a better rucking backup then Pedersen will probably miss out on team balance because he is down the pecking order for ability. Personally, I think he would make a very good sub.

Not sure who was at the game, or who watched on telly or went by stats. But some posters have some serious clouded views of last night. I was at the game and took a few friends to their first game of afl. Ill start with positives.

After going a few goals down I was impressed we held tight and worked back into it by quarter time. Early on it looked like dawes was going to kick 6 or 7. He presents so well and works so hard in his first few steps on the lead. Jamar was terrific and pederson gave him a good chop out to allow him to rest forward. It was a slippery footy with a dewy night, which probably worked against us with the forward set up. That said, if its decent weather next saturday against the tigers we could really exploit them. Terlich was great early, he works so hard but his skills can let him down. We definitely missed him when he went off. Dunn is quickly becoming our most important backline player, he spoils so well and he realy controls play around him. Tmac zones off so well to spoil, likewise howe, and id love a stat that measures that so they get some recognition. Unfortunately, the guys can let themselves down with disposal. Garland will help fhis when he gets back inti the groove.

the midfield is really starting to click. Viney is an absolute terrier. He gets cleaned up and bounces back up, attacks the ball again and puts some fantastic pressure on that belies his age. Unfortunately he isnt a great kick yet either. Matt jones will get flak for his miss, but he ran so hard to get the ball, then run into the 50. He worked his guts out all game and to fault him on that miss is unfortunate as he had worked so hard. Again, disposal is the issue. He needed 2 steps less or jkh to keep his man back. Vince cross and jones all performed solidly.

Jkh is just unbelievable. He isnt lightning fast, but he thinks quick and this allows him to put pressure on and get in space. He has a huge future and someone who prepares like him has leadership written all over him.

My biggest praise is for dom tyson. Anyone who thought trading for him was a bad move, I hope you feel relatively foolish. When a ball is in dispute he attacks it like its his last contest, but then oozes class by hand or foot. His 60m goal lifted the crowd to levels I cant remember from being at a melbourne game in a long time. I dont know who is a good player to compare him to, however I feel like its only a matter of time before junior players coming through are being compared to him. I was excited when we picked him up, but the sky is the limit for him.

Negatives.

Matt stevic absolutely murdered us last night. Some terrible decisions from him and he deserves to be dropped to umpire in some faraway bush league never to be heard of again. It wasnt just the one on dunn, all night he was poor. I thought the other 2 were quite reasonable.

There was an incident in last quarter that for me just typifies the effort of 2 certain players. I cant remember who had the ball for us at chb, but on the wing was watts standing on his man, not moving with his arm in the air pointing wider, as if it was some sort of lead. On the other hand, jkh started his lead from about 30m out, sprinted towards the wing, straight past watts and kept working up the ground. He didnt have his lead honoured but he busted his guts to lead 100m, while watts stood there. Not only did jkh work, he created space behind him. Watts stood there and I just thought it showed his desire perfectly. Hopefully someone else saw it too, i heard plenty in the crowd give it to watts, which I dont like, but when he starts to work he will earn respect. He needs a month at casey to learn to go and get the footy with less skilled players and tough it out. Yes he is skilled, but seeing someone constantly want the ball on their own terms is just the polar opposite of every other player on the ground.

Byrnes was average but until he has someone to replace him, he will be there.

I thought our composure went in the last quarter and we were rattled by some pretty questionable tactics from the dogs. A lot of sniping. Jones deserves 3 weeks for his hit.

Overall I thought we would win right up to that dunn "free". You could see the guys panic after that. Its great to sit in the crowd and see youngsters at the footy smiling and cheering even into the last quarter, something thats been missing for a long time. Frustrated but so many positives, so many improvements and so much excitement is just around the corner to be too upset.

Bring on the tigers.

Vision here - WARNING: Heartbreaking!

And that's just the grammar:

Qualities?

Hm, still annoyed..

And that's just the grammar:

Qualities?

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I can't see the rush with the Toump. Some players are better off for dbeing brought to a slow boil.

The free against Dunn did not have to be paid in the context of the game. Once again we get shafted by a soft free. It was such a fantastic effort by both teams until then. The umpires had put the whistle away... No, there was still one maggot prepared to take the game on the whistle!

Yes - a very soft free in the context of the game...only moments before Dawes was mauled in front of goal in a marking contest. It was a definite momentum changer. Thanks so much.

The other that really irked me was the one where Cooney was tackled at CHF and placed the ball on the ground - play on. What rubbish.

The difference between this season & last season is fantastic. At this point last year, there was no light at the end of the tunnel. We didn't' even know how long the tunnel was! It's almost unbelievable that change can happen so quickly. I'm not even convinced that Top 8 is out of the question this year however realistically, it's unlikely. I was at the game last year when we conceded 6 (?) goals to the 'Dogs in the last quarter when the win felt like a loss. The loss last night was nothing like it and, if we keep competing like that, I think we'll be a force to reckon with for a long time. Respect (like 'Winter') is coming.

Not sure who was at the game, or who watched on telly or went by stats. But some posters have some serious clouded views of last night. I was at the game and took a few friends to their first game of afl. Ill start with positives.

After going a few goals down I was impressed we held tight and worked back into it by quarter time. Early on it looked like dawes was going to kick 6 or 7. He presents so well and works so hard in his first few steps on the lead. Jamar was terrific and pederson gave him a good chop out to allow him to rest forward. It was a slippery footy with a dewy night, which probably worked against us with the forward set up. That said, if its decent weather next saturday against the tigers we could really exploit them. Terlich was great early, he works so hard but his skills can let him down. We definitely missed him when he went off. Dunn is quickly becoming our most important backline player, he spoils so well and he realy controls play around him. Tmac zones off so well to spoil, likewise howe, and id love a stat that measures that so they get some recognition. Unfortunately, the guys can let themselves down with disposal. Garland will help fhis when he gets back inti the groove.

the midfield is really starting to click. Viney is an absolute terrier. He gets cleaned up and bounces back up, attacks the ball again and puts some fantastic pressure on that belies his age. Unfortunately he isnt a great kick yet either. Matt jones will get flak for his miss, but he ran so hard to get the ball, then run into the 50. He worked his guts out all game and to fault him on that miss is unfortunate as he had worked so hard. Again, disposal is the issue. He needed 2 steps less or jkh to keep his man back. Vince cross and jones all performed solidly.

Jkh is just unbelievable. He isnt lightning fast, but he thinks quick and this allows him to put pressure on and get in space. He has a huge future and someone who prepares like him has leadership written all over him.

My biggest praise is for dom tyson. Anyone who thought trading for him was a bad move, I hope you feel relatively foolish. When a ball is in dispute he attacks it like its his last contest, but then oozes class by hand or foot. His 60m goal lifted the crowd to levels I cant remember from being at a melbourne game in a long time. I dont know who is a good player to compare him to, however I feel like its only a matter of time before junior players coming through are being compared to him. I was excited when we picked him up, but the sky is the limit for him.

Negatives.

Matt stevic absolutely murdered us last night. Some terrible decisions from him and he deserves to be dropped to umpire in some faraway bush league never to be heard of again. It wasnt just the one on dunn, all night he was poor. I thought the other 2 were quite reasonable.

There was an incident in last quarter that for me just typifies the effort of 2 certain players. I cant remember who had the ball for us at chb, but on the wing was watts standing on his man, not moving with his arm in the air pointing wider, as if it was some sort of lead. On the other hand, jkh started his lead from about 30m out, sprinted towards the wing, straight past watts and kept working up the ground. He didnt have his lead honoured but he busted his guts to lead 100m, while watts stood there. Not only did jkh work, he created space behind him. Watts stood there and I just thought it showed his desire perfectly. Hopefully someone else saw it too, i heard plenty in the crowd give it to watts, which I dont like, but when he starts to work he will earn respect. He needs a month at casey to learn to go and get the footy with less skilled players and tough it out. Yes he is skilled, but seeing someone constantly want the ball on their own terms is just the polar opposite of every other player on the ground.

Byrnes was average but until he has someone to replace him, he will be there.

I thought our composure went in the last quarter and we were rattled by some pretty questionable tactics from the dogs. A lot of sniping. Jones deserves 3 weeks for his hit.

Overall I thought we would win right up to that dunn "free". You could see the guys panic after that. Its great to sit in the crowd and see youngsters at the footy smiling and cheering even into the last quarter, something thats been missing for a long time. Frustrated but so many positives, so many improvements and so much excitement is just around the corner to be too upset.

Bring on the tigers.

Hope you also noted when Watts worked on multiple leads then chased across the ground in one passage and then was bad mouthed by supporters for not having chased hard enough, completely ignoring the work he put in just to get across to the contest. Watts bashing is becoming de rigour on this forum but last night he definitely worked hard off the ball and was happy to tackle and scrimmage when able. He is not getting the possessions we would like but he is trying to do more 1% stuff to assist team mates. He was miles from being our worst last night.

I love the fact that we are now discussing the small things, that emerge when young footballers are tired and under pressure of a tight contest. Last year, we were discussing 'good efforts'. Like we deserved a certificate of attendance or something.

We lost it in three critical areas:

Crap delivery with the kick inside 50 for most of the match.

Run out of puff in the last 20 minutes. The bullies just had a pinch more in the tank, and it began to show in the way some of their players were able to get more space.

Touches of class- I believe more experience under pressure will turn some coal to diamonds (Salem, JKH, Tyson, Viney) and others to coal dust. More of this experience will really help.

I love what Roos has done, and is doing. I loved the fact that the dogs had no marks in the third q until about time on. When play this style, then learn to spread and put themselves to advantage (and honour it), and get the forward half working properly...look out!

I am happy to be a Dees member this year more than I have for many years.

I am disappointed we lost, and think we have let 3 games get away this year (aints, bullies, GC). But damned happy with a bigger picture view.

Hm, still annoyed..

Me too. It's a feeling I hadn't felt in a long time though - that filthy feeling of "should have won, no excuse for not winning". The only feelings I've felt in the last three years have been "I can't believe we still manage to be even worse than the week before" or "I don't mind the loss - at least we were competitive".

This must be what it's like to be a North Melbourne supporter.

I love the fact that we are now discussing the small things, that emerge when young footballers are tired and under pressure of a tight contest. Last year, we were discussing 'good efforts'. Like we deserved a certificate of attendance or something.

We lost it in three critical areas:

Crap delivery with the kick inside 50 for most of the match.

Run out of puff in the last 20 minutes. The bullies just had a pinch more in the tank, and it began to show in the way some of their players were able to get more space.

Touches of class- I believe more experience under pressure will turn some coal to diamonds (Salem, JKH, Tyson, Viney) and others to coal dust. More of this experience will really help.

I love what Roos has done, and is doing. I loved the fact that the dogs had no marks in the third q until about time on. When play this style, then learn to spread and put themselves to advantage (and honour it), and get the forward half working properly...look out!

I am happy to be a Dees member this year more than I have for many years.

I am disappointed we lost, and think we have let 3 games get away this year (aints, bullies, GC). But damned happy with a bigger picture view.

Agreed, though in the 'three things' I'd have said something about our defence playing its worst game for the year.

If our backline had played like it did in Adelaide we'd have won for sure. They scored too easily going inside 50 and we weren't able to generate any rebound.