Very few here live in fairyland. But a large number live in the opposite of it and see disaster and doom in every little thing that happens, overreacting to the pain of recent years.

Interesting u say "disaster and doom in every little thing that happens".

I don't think Hogans injury and contract status is a little thing.

I wouldn't say I'm overreacting to the pain of recent yrs but more so being realistic.

So we have signed him for 3 yrs and he has played for one season in the reserves, will be injured for this season and play in his 3rd year (hopefully), doesn't want to sign a contract extension and then will probably go back to WA.

I know the injury is bad luck but this could only happen at the Dees.

If he stays I will be happy but am prepared for the worse.

It also irritates me that players from other clubs are jumping at the chance to re-sign and we continue to struggle in that area (yes I am aware of our past 7 yr history but it still grates me)

In fairness to Jesse Hogan, he hasn't even played a game for the club, so it is bit hard for him.

But experienced players like Frawley I'd be expecting more from them at present.

Thankfully we'll be well compensated.

Interesting u say "disaster and doom in every little thing that happens".

I don't think Hogans injury and contract status is a little thing.

I wouldn't say I'm overreacting to the pain of recent yrs but more so being realistic.

its a lot of worry over a player who has never played at senior level.

it would be more of a worry for dee supporters if he kicked 6 in his debut game.

there would be 562 pages of what happens doom and gloom.

In fairness to Jesse Hogan, he hasn't even played a game for the club, so it is bit hard for him.

But experienced players like Frawley I'd be expecting more from them at present.

Thankfully we'll be well compensated.

Bit hard on Chip I think - has handled the transition to the forward line well and has given us something. Quite often changes like that fail miserably. Also enjoyed the video of him on the clubs website - good production and insightful

Nothing to do we hardening up.

How about we look at reality and stop living in fairy land.

Absolutely spot on and our dismal track record speaks for itself.

Interesting u say "disaster and doom in every little thing that happens".

I don't think Hogans injury and contract status is a little thing.

I wouldn't say I'm overreacting to the pain of recent yrs but more so being realistic.

Agree that Hogan's injury is a serious worry, but worrying right now about his contract status is going overboard.

My remark wasn't directed specifically at you. But I believe any objective reader of the stream of doom and gloom posts on this board would be in no doubt that many are overreacting to the pain of recent years and have thrown realism out the window as they wring every last ounce of despair out of every thing that goes wrong. I guess it must be therapeutic to do so.

Would imagine the last thing the club would do right now is talk contracts. Learning from Mitch at how depressing rehab and not playing can be why would they put more pressure on him by talking contracts.

We supporters should be happy to let the kid get healthy, enjoy plaing a few games and park the contract angst to next year. We have a better chance of keeping him by the club respecting his decision to play for a while before thinking contracts.

Interesting u say "disaster and doom in every little thing that happens".

I don't think Hogans injury and contract status is a little thing.

I wouldn't say I'm overreacting to the pain of recent yrs but more so being realistic.

Realistic ? - please list the superstars that we have lost over the past 3-4 years.

Moloney & Rivers - two free agents - Rivers went to play for a finals team before his retirement and Moloney's we could have matched if we desire ( I have never seen a club say we are not matching an offer so quickly !)

Sylvia - I think the club did try and keep him but I don't think too many are unhappy that we failed in our effort.

The only player we moved heaven and earth to keep was Scully - posters can make up their own minds if they are unhappy or not about him going ( heavy dose of sarcasm).

Our pain is in the way we have played and our results not in the players that have gone.

The test will be Frawley who is a high quality player - I think we can moan and groan if we lose him.

As to Hogan's contract - he hasn't played a game yet ! - And again - this go home factor - he just can't up and go to Freo or WCE at the end of next year unless they finish bottom of the table or we let it happen. If he wants out then either we deal or he goes uncontracted to a bottom team.

Absolutely spot on and our dismal track record speaks for itself.

Happy to listen.

List the dismal track record of retaining players.

2.5 players I can remember - Scully and Thompson - and I'll give Sylvia a half - still not convinced that we put an enormous offer on the table to keep him.

Happy to listen.

List the dismal track record of retaining players.

2.5 players I can remember - Scully and Thompson - and I'll give Sylvia a half - still not convinced that we put an enormous offer on the table to keep him.

Farmer, Woey, Bruce, Johnstone

Farmer, Woey, Bruce, Johnstone

please........

Farmer I will give you.

Woey and Johnstone we traded !!!

Bruce we offered a one year contract and he wanted 2 years - end of his career - ( that didnt exactly bite us in the bum)

edit - Both Woey and Johnstone were unhappy about being traded at the time.

please........

Farmer I will give you.

Woey and Johnstone we traded !!!

Bruce we offered a one year contract and he wanted 2 years - end of his career - ( that didnt exactly bite us in the bum)

edit - Both Woey and Johnstone were unhappy about being traded at the time.

Nut we could go on and on with this but IMO our overall player managment (players leaving or being traded or retiring) has been diabolical (MC being the exception) but something i am sure is trying to be rectified by the new regime.

Let's hope for all our sakes Roos and co can make it work and have the dees in a place where players want to stay and new players want to come to.

Re Jesse's back (and Maxie's hammies), was in conversation yesterday with the bloke who brings in high-end spinal strengthening and conditioning devices http://www.ppsoz.com.au/index.php/home/sports maybe this could be part of the solution?

Note: I Give a Gawnski has no commercial affiliation with ppsoz..com.au

Nut we could go on and on with this but the fact is our overall player managment (players leaving or being traded or retiring) has been diabolical (MC being the exception) but something i am sure is trying to be rectified by the new regime.

Let's hope for all our sakes Roos and co can make it work and have the dees in a place where players want to stay and new players want to come to.

And I will go on because of your original point regarding retaining players - we have not been diabolical as you claim to be a fact . You are correct that we have not handled some retirements particularly well but I think this has been more about how we have done it rather than whether the players still had football life in them (Jnr's retirement is widely debated on here - I am in the "he should have retired camp") . Our trading out of players has been ok - none have really come back to bite us. Our retention has been ok.

What we have had is our players dragging out contract negotiations until the bitter end. With free agency this will become more and more common.

Sorry - but when someone uses the word "fact" I get antsy. I expect a fact to be exactly that - a fact! What you have given us are opinions and your opinions are highly debatable.

And I will go on because of your original point regarding retaining players - we have not been diabolical as you claim to be a fact . You are correct that we have not handled some retirements particularly well but I think this has been more about how we have done it rather than whether the players still had football life in them (Jnr's retirement is widely debated on here - I am in the "he should have retired camp") . Our trading out of players has been ok - none have really come back to bite us. Our retention has been ok.

What we have had is our players dragging out contract negotiations until the bitter end. With free agency this will become more and more common.

Sorry - but when someone uses the word "fact" I get antsy. I expect a fact to be exactly that - a fact! What you have given us are opinions and your opinions are highly debatable.

Ok we r not going to agree on this.

I have also changed my original post to IMO rather than fact.

So u can stop being "antsy" now, it's not healthy!!!

Seems like Hogan could do with Melbourne muscular therapy, as it's footballers first point of call.. It's where they "address the Cause of Your Pain, Not Just the Symptoms"

Ok we r not going to agree on this.

I have also changed my original post to IMO rather than fact.

So u can stop being "antsy" now, it's not healthy!!!

hopefully i am respectfully antsy !

And my health ? - demonland is much easier to cope with than what we see on the field sometimes

Could Mitch Clark come back if he recovers quickly from his depression?

I have been thinking that part of Mitch's recovery is to reduce stress. By removing the stress of having to come back, he may start to improve rapidly. If he did could he return? He is still listed on the AFL site as a Melbourne player.

Maybe just wishful thinking.

Mitch Clark is never coming back to play for the Demons.

Interesting though to read that he was at training today and by all accounts appeared in good spirits.

IF he has made a good physical recovery with a prolonged rest from training and is feeling better in the head, who can say for sure that he won't get bitten by the bug and decide before list closures in ?October that he wants to have another go.

I am sure he would be welcomed back by most here.

The only major black eye for retaining players was Junior McDonald.

That was self-defeating list management and it was also poorly managed.

As for the rest - these players get inflated because of the sorry state of our list.

Frawley would be a huge loss but hardly insurmountable.

Nothing to do we hardening up.

How about we look at reality and stop living in fairy land.

Whats fairy land I have just named two players playing at a flag contender who are not as you say "jumping at the chance to resign" that isn't fantasy land that is fact.

Crows lost Bok, Davis & Tippett in 3 succesive years & big Tex is yet to jump at signing the dotted line, so IMO it is self pity "why is it only us these things happen to us"

Hogan has been placed onto the long-term injury list with Georgiou his replacement.

deepressing

IMO it is self pity "why is it only us these things happen to us"

Thanks Dr

I feel so much better now!

deepressing

Careful sounds like u are wallowing in self pity there hh!

I don't understand why Hogan needs to go LTI for Georgiou to be his replacement.

Doesn't Clark's retirement count for a list space given it was injury related?

Anyway we now have a (long) time frame without Hogan. Whilst that's bad at least there's no incentive to rush.