A chance to recognise a different type of courage...

[hardtack 10,627]

What is the difference between sympathy and empathy?

I actually agree with this.... most of us probably can feel sympathy for Mitch's plight, but I would agree that it is a fact that most of us would have a lot of trouble feeling empathy. This is because most of us have not been in that place and even if we know people who have, would still have very little understanding of what is taking place in their heads. Semantics I know, but true none-the-less.

Edited April 10, 2014 by hardtack

[hardtack 10,627]

That's what leaders do, the ox went through more set backs then mitch, now that's what a leader, i wonder what the anzacs would think, if 1 of the boys in the trenches said,"hey man this is too hard, i'm going home. now what do we see on the weekend, exhibit a boomer harvey harvey. in the last quarter game to be won kicks a couple of goals. exhibit b, nathan jones, 7 down last quarter no possessions. who is the champion you tell me.

And which trenches are these you speak of? Are we all going to jump into a time machine and hurtle back to the Western Front?

God I hate the use of that old "he's someone I'd like to have next to me in the trenches" chestnut!

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

Oh great. You're ripping out all the big guns now. Some of the anzacs sat in the trenches and cried like children. Some of them ran headfirst into their certain death. Some of them killed as many enemies as they could. Some of them never fired their weapon.

You don't get to decide what the anzacs thought, because each of them was an individual that had their own motivations and aspirations, and you trotting them out here is nearly as shameful as politicians purporting to represent their wishes in support of one (usually racist) policy or another.

Now that you've brought them up, however, it might be worth mentioning that thousands of the poor buggers succumbed to mental illness thanks to their experiences in the war and lived the rest of their lives as hollow, empty shells, not a shadow of their former selves. I wonder indeed, what they would think of you belittling others - like Mitch - battling mental demons.

Thanks Autocol. I had promised I wouldn't respond to angrydemons again. You saved me from having to break my word and your response is far better than anything I would have written. Well said.

[ManDee 7,222]

Thanks Autocol. I had promised I wouldn't respond to angrydemons again. You saved me from having to break my word and your response is far better than anything I would have written. Well said.

Ditto. Don't feed trolls.

Edit: The problem when arguing with idiots is that they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. --- Mark Twain

Edited April 10, 2014 by ManDee

[nutbean 8,838]

My problem with angrydemons stance is he seems to think that mental illness fits neatly into a package and that it affects all people the same way,that it runs to a timetable and is something that can solved by "sucking it up and stop being such a nancy". The other issue I have is that because one has lots of money they shouldn't be afflicted by these problems or at least have the resources to just make it go away.

Edited April 10, 2014 by nutbean

[autocol 448]

because one has lots of money they shouldn't be afflicted by these problems or at least have the resources to just make it go away.

Surely you've heard the saying "Money can buy happiness".

Or... wait, is that how it goes...?

[Vince Vega 40]

Oh great. You're ripping out all the big guns now. Some of the anzacs sat in the trenches and cried like children. Some of them ran headfirst into their certain death. Some of them killed as many enemies as they could. Some of them never fired their weapon.

You don't get to decide what the anzacs thought, because each of them was an individual that had their own motivations and aspirations, and you trotting them out here is nearly as shameful as politicians purporting to represent their wishes in support of one (usually racist) policy or another.

Now that you've brought them up, however, it might be worth mentioning that thousands of the poor buggers succumbed to mental illness thanks to their experiences in the war and lived the rest of their lives as hollow, empty shells, not a shadow of their former selves. I wonder indeed, what they would think of you belittling others - like Mitch - battling mental demons.

Oh snap! Perfectly worded autocol.

[ManDee 7,222]

My problem with angrydemons stance is he seems to think that mental illness fits neatly into a package and that it affects all people the same way,that it runs to a timetable and is something that can solved by "sucking it up and stop being such a nancy". The other issue I have is that because one has lots of money they shouldn't be afflicted by these problems or at least have the resources to just make it go away.

We can only presume through irrational argument and outrageous statements that some people are idiots, they are self defining.

There is no point in arguing with idiots

We can disagree with idiots, but to expect rational argument or personal growth from them is pointless. They are idiots, and that is self limiting.

The alternative is that they are trolls. Trolls are worse than idiots because they intentionally provoke looking for an angry response. Do not feed a troll.

So I suggest we do not respond to trolls or idiots, in the hope that they go away.

The italics are an edit. idiots plural OK singular censored?

Edited April 11, 2014 by ManDee

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

We can only presume through irrational argument and outrageous statements that some people are idiots, they are self defining.

There is no point in arguing with idiots

We can disagree with idiots, but to expect rational argument or personal growth from them is pointless. They are idiots, and that is self limiting.

The alternative is that they are trolls. Trolls are worse than idiots because they intentionally provoke looking for an angry response. Do not feed a troll.

So I suggest we do not respond to trolls or idiots, in the hope that they go away.

The italics are an edit. idiots plural OK singular censored?

There's something wrong with our auto-censor. It's censoring the word but not the poster who that word describes.

[ManDee 7,222]

To get back on topic.

Mitch Clark and the club are to be admired for the handling of this situation. It would appear that both have acted admirably with respect for all parties evident.

It is not a sign of weakness to care, nor is it a sign of weakness to admit to an illness.

I am proud to be a member of a club that tackles societies issues maturely and carefully.

Go Dees!

[nutbean 8,838]

To get back on topic.

Mitch Clark and the club are to be admired for the handling of this situation. It would appear that both have acted admirably with respect for all parties evident.

It is not a sign of weakness to care, nor is it a sign of weakness to admit to an illness.

I am proud to be a member of a club that tackles societies issues maturely and carefully.

Go Dees!

The MFC have got bucketloads wrong over the journey. They have got this one right.

[binman 43,823]

I like your quote re Sean Wight.

He was born in Scotland moved to England when he was 10 and trialed for Fulham soccer club.

An all Australian 1987 and hall off fame member and played 150 games for us.

He would have won the golden fist.

Peggy, we won't forget Sean.

And he could teach some of our boys about leadership, perseverance, courage and standing up when needed.

One of my all time favorite players and i reckon underrated in terms of how good he actually was. Often played on players much bigger than him, was super strong in the air, rarely got beaten one on one and was ahead of his time in terms of taking calculated risks by going third man up, running of his man up field and zoning off to to help other defenders out.

Edit : to be clear and for fear that psychodemon will misappropriate my words when talking about perseverance, courage and standing up when needed i was not in any way making an oblique criticism of Mitch. In fact if i was meaning to make an oblique reference to Mitch it would be to suggest he has shown all those traits by retiring. What a truly a courageous move. I'll bet London to a brick his family is super relieved and proud

Edited April 11, 2014 by binman

[dee-luded 2,959]

iss pyaar that this is going to send a message to the playing group, melbourne football club is not the right environment for your mental health, this is going to send a message to the play group that quitting and leaving the club is the best thing for your development,

this thread is bigger than being selfish. its about people, & their struggles & health, & empathy.

[dee-luded 2,959]

What the F?

You are very sad angrydemons, you don't understand that Mitch is ill. This is not his fault and he is not in control of his illness at the moment.

Do you have any idea how hard it would be to quit a job paying approx $800k pa with no alternative income in sight?

Quitting a career that You Love, to let go, could be like losing your mum.

[dee-luded 2,959]

That's "if" rather than "when".

Just in general, not in response to this post, think some here are underestimating the severity of Mitch's condition, or this condition in general. It's a long road, sometimes a road without end.

exactly

[Little Goffy 14,645]

That's what leaders do, the ox went through more set backs then mitch, now that's what a leader, i wonder what the anzacs would think, if 1 of the boys in the trenches said,"hey man this is too hard, i'm going home. now what do we see on the weekend, exhibit a boomer harvey harvey. in the last quarter game to be won kicks a couple of goals. exhibit b, nathan jones, 7 down last quarter no possessions. who is the champion you tell me.

They would probably think 'gee, I'm so glad mental health issues are being taken seriously and held out in the open, after all those decades of trying to cope with post-traumatic stress disorder by drinking. Maybe soon I'll get the help I need to put the war behind me and begin to reconnect with my wife and children.'

Also "*** those British b4stards for sending me into this ****hole with all the wrong gear, no strategy and no heavy artillery support".

ANZACs were among the most routinely insubordinate troops of the entire first world war. Over day to day things, not mass desertions like the Habsburg Empire, Russian Empire/provisional government, or the French mutineers. They simply routinely said 'no' to officers with no credibility and bad plans. Because they were not 'drilled' into mindless sacrifice for a system or structure, rather they were used to small-team environments and leaders 'emerging from the group' with an established mutual trust earnt over time.

Speaking quite seriously, I imagine that if you told an ANZAC soldier to risk their life by ignoring a critical illness for the sake of the entertainment of some guy who gets cranky on internet forums, they'd tell you to **** off.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

They would probably think 'gee, I'm so glad mental health issues are being taken seriously and held out in the open, after all those decades of trying to cope with post-traumatic stress disorder by drinking. Maybe soon I'll get the help I need to put the war behind me and begin to reconnect with my wife and children.'

Also "*** those British b4stards for sending me into this ****hole with all the wrong gear, no strategy and no heavy artillery support".

ANZACs were among the most routinely insubordinate troops of the entire first world war. Over day to day things, not mass desertions like the Habsburg Empire, Russian Empire/provisional government, or the French mutineers. They simply routinely said 'no' to officers with no credibility and bad plans. Because they were not 'drilled' into mindless sacrifice for a system or structure, rather they were used to small-team environments and leaders 'emerging from the group' with an established mutual trust earnt over time.

Speaking quite seriously, I imagine that if you told an ANZAC soldier to risk their life by ignoring a critical illness for the sake of the entertainment of some guy who gets cranky on internet forums, they'd tell you to **** off.

Game. SET. MATCH.

CLOSE THREAD.

[nutbean 8,838]

It's actually a little sad.

We can endlessly debate whether we think Dunne is or isnt a footballer and agree to to disagree - each to their own in my view. But to hold views such as those being espoused on this subject makes me feel that our education system ( or "The message" ) is failing and we haven't progressed one iota from the dark ages.

[dee-luded 2,959]

They would probably think 'gee, I'm so glad mental health issues are being taken seriously and held out in the open, after all those decades of trying to cope with post-traumatic stress disorder by drinking. Maybe soon I'll get the help I need to put the war behind me and begin to reconnect with my wife and children.'

Also "*** those British b4stards for sending me into this ****hole with all the wrong gear, no strategy and no heavy artillery support".

ANZACs were among the most routinely insubordinate troops of the entire first world war. Over day to day things, not mass desertions like the Habsburg Empire, Russian Empire/provisional government, or the French mutineers. They simply routinely said 'no' to officers with no credibility and bad plans. Because they were not 'drilled' into mindless sacrifice for a system or structure, rather they were used to small-team environments and leaders 'emerging from the group' with an established mutual trust earnt over time.

Speaking quite seriously, I imagine that if you told an ANZAC soldier to risk their life by ignoring a critical illness for the sake of the entertainment of some guy who gets cranky on internet forums, they'd tell you to **** off.

Spot on Little Goffy.

and many of those returned soldiers came home to become addicted to alcohol, & sometimes abused or assaulted others. they All suffered one way or another. & often the disabling effects were passed onto their families.