Regardless of what Frawley does at season's end is now the time to start thinking of bolstering our key defensive stocks? Who is next in line behind T-mac? Grimes would have to be on the radar...?

I think he just re signed at the tigers, so cross him of the list

You mean injury plagued Grimes? Not sure, don't we already have one of those?.....

Edited February 9, 201411 yr by stuie

We need a big key defender, someone at plus 196 around the 100kg mark. Rory Thompson at GC is a prototype defender, tall and quick closing speed.

At the moment we have Col Garland at 191, Chip at 193 and Tommy Mc at 194.

He just did his hammy again.

No thanks.

Genuine talent but even worse body than his big brother Jack.

If Thompson was available he'd be a great get.

Thompson is a class defender. It's unlikely that we could lure him away from the Suns.

Genuine talent but even worse body than his big brother Jack.

If Thompson was available he'd be a great get.

Thompson is a class defender. It's unlikely that we could lure him away from the Suns.

My point was that he (Thompson) was the prototype of the modern tall defender. We already have someone similar in size and speed in Fitzpatrick who may be worth a run in defence.

Also no reason we shouldn't have a crack at Thompson.

We need to turn Fitzy in to a defender

We need a big key defender, someone at plus 196 around the 100kg mark. Rory Thompson at GC is a prototype defender, tall and quick closing speed.

At the moment we have Col Garland at 191, Chip at 193 and Tommy Mc at 194.

Why? Looking back through the premiership defenders of recent years in Hawthorn (Lake, Gibson), Sydney (Richards, Grundy), Geelong (Lonergan, Taylor, Scarlett) it seems most key defenders are still around that 195cm height at most.

Tom Boyd and Joe Daniher stand out as the 200cm key forwards drafted recently, and our own Mitch Clark as well as Jake Carlisle from Essendon are other key forwards approaching that 200cm mark. But they are much more the exception than the rule. The best key forwards are still those around 195cm mark - Franklin, Cameron, Cloke, Riewoldt(s), Roughead.

No matter what position a guy plays the taller the better of course but any defender with skills and some athleticism and reach can make up probably close to a 10cm gap between him and his opponent. Because a 200cm defender can't spoil a 195cm forward if they have a run and jump at the ball with separation, but a 190cm defender can spoil a 200cm forward if they can get body contact on.

We need to turn Fitzy in to a defender

Doubt he has the physicality or foot skills to make it as a defender, much better suited using his pace in leading to find space forward.

Remember Rory Thompson was a last chance kind of guy who failed as a ruck and forward and GC had the opportunity to give him a shot down back and persevere with him regardless of form. I'm not sure we've got that opportunity with Fitzy and he's shown too much as a forward and forward/ruck to mess around with his development on a hunch.

At the moment a depth key defender is high up on the draft list but it will only be if Frawley leaves that we need to panic and think about trades.

Thompson is a class defender. It's unlikely that we could lure him away from the Suns.

they will shirley come under salary cap pressure soon along the road?

we need to be Ready to compete with other clubs, financially, but also as a go ahead club.

Isn't there one or two Grimes bros yet to come? IIRC someone on here posted that one of them was meant to be a beauty. Not sure.

Freddy Fuschia, on 09 Feb 2014 - 3:01 PM, said:

Thompson is a class defender. It's unlikely that we could lure him away from the Suns.

My point was that he (Thompson) was the prototype of the modern tall defender. We already have someone similar in size and speed in Fitzpatrick who may be worth a run in defence.

Also no reason we shouldn't have a crack at Thompson.

IMO Fitzpatrick should be coached towards being a follower/forward. with Fitzpatrick resting up forward, Hogan, Dawes, Howe, & cameos from watts drifting up, makes for a versatile forward half.

I think Clark has the best skillset & attitude, to play other than forward. Ruck, & down back when needed. as would Hogan.

I think Gawns skillset is limited, as is Spencers, to mainly Ruck with cameos forward.

Edited February 9, 201411 yr by dee-luded

Why? Looking back through the premiership defenders of recent years in Hawthorn (Lake, Gibson), Sydney (Richards, Grundy), Geelong (Lonergan, Taylor, Scarlett) it seems most key defenders are still around that 195cm height at most.

Tom Boyd and Joe Daniher stand out as the 200cm key forwards drafted recently, and our own Mitch Clark as well as Jake Carlisle from Essendon are other key forwards approaching that 200cm mark. But they are much more the exception than the rule. The best key forwards are still those around 195cm mark - Franklin, Cameron, Cloke, Riewoldt(s), Roughead.

No matter what position a guy plays the taller the better of course but any defender with skills and some athleticism and reach can make up probably close to a 10cm gap between him and his opponent. Because a 200cm defender can't spoil a 195cm forward if they have a run and jump at the ball with separation, but a 190cm defender can spoil a 200cm forward if they can get body contact on.

Why, because we should be looking forward not back. The forwards as you noted are getting taller, kids are getting bigger in general. Lake is 195 and over 100kg, Frawley is 193 and around 94kg he would be better playing a Scarlett type role. Lonergan is 197 and close on 100kg that's why he generally gets the big jobs and Taylor uses his strengths to zone off or play against suitable match ups. Frawley v Riewoltd, Tommy Mac v other Riewoldt are good match ups. Cloke and Tippett are hard match ups, Boyd and Carlisle will be even harder matches when they get some experience also a tall kid at the dogs now. Frawley has to work overtime on Buddy, that little bit of reach means he gives away free kicks.

If he can't get body contact on and the way the rules are being interpreted (going against the body work of the defender) then it is becoming more important to get a long arm in. One of Fletchers strengths at around 197cm with long arms. Closing speed will be important no matter what size a defender is.

Now I'm not saying Fitz is the answer but I am saying the size and pace he has is what we need to be looking for and not another 193cm defender like a Dylan Grimes. Also there is nothing wrong with trying him there, as you say Thompson was on his last chance looking for a position.

Freddy Fuschia, on 09 Feb 2014 - 3:01 PM, said:

IMO Fitzpatrick should be coached towards being a follower/forward. with Fitzpatrick resting up forward, Hogan, Dawes, Howe, & cameos from watts drifting up, makes for a versatile forward half.

I think Clark has the best skillset & attitude, to play other than forward. Ruck, & down back when needed. as would Hogan.

I think Gawns skillset is limited, as is Spencers, to mainly Ruck with cameos forward.

Clark will be used to rotate in the ruck when fit.

The big guys are all in competition for one ruck spot. Fitz will take Clark's place if he is not fit but he won't have a permanent place. We won't be taking in 2 of the other 3, Gawn, Spencer or Jamar.

So Fitz is a bit of a floater. He could be a permanent forward, in competition with Dawes, Hogan and Pedersen. A relief ruck/forward in competition with Clark and Pedersen. Or the key ruck (unlikely) in competition with Spencer, Gawn and Jamar.

Maybe he could make a name for himself in the back line. Who knows, just floating the idea.

Isn't there one or two Grimes bros yet to come? IIRC someone on here posted that one of them was meant to be a beauty. Not sure.

Spoke to a mate who has been involved with him at a junior level. He says Tommy Grimes is hard at it but like his brothers is very injury prone. He plays as a tall defender but lacks class in his disposal. He once thought he would be better than his brothers but now has doubts to whether he will make the grade. Needs a lot of work.

Hogan can play centre half back you know. It could be a goer, not unlike Neitz's development. Learn how the big forwards play as a backman. Then go forward. Also takes some of the pressure off in his firstbyear. Just an option if all the talls are available and a contingency plan for if Chip does a runner in 2015.

Tall forwards can always go back but if the hype surrounding this bloke is true I don't want him leaving our forward 50.

Hogan can play centre half back you know. It could be a goer, not unlike Neitz's development. Learn how the big forwards play as a backman. Then go forward. Also takes some of the pressure off in his firstbyear. Just an option if all the talls are available and a contingency plan for if Chip does a runner in 2015.

If Mitch, Dawes and Fitzy were fit, the I'd love to see Hogan at CHB.

Could be the best since Jakovich

Mitch Clark is the one to go back of any of them. Big, Strong, Aggressive, get him down there with Chip and Tommy, and all of a sudden, Garland is left to play a generals role and dominate

But it wont happen..

Mitch Clark is the one to go back of any of them. Big, Strong, Aggressive, get him down there with Chip and Tommy, and all of a sudden, Garland is left to play a generals role and dominate

But it wont happen..

No it won't happen because he will be forward/ruck. I'd prefer him as our first ruck.... just saying

You mean injury plagued Grimes? Not sure, don't we already have one of those?.....

Yeppppppp...Im hearing you loud and clear Stu.

They are both dead set hopeless with injury every week.

Clark should be 1st ruck 70% then forward 30%. Fitzpatrick ruck 30% forward 30% then bench, that is providing Hogan & Dawes fit and playing. Spencer to replace Clark or Fitzy if (when) they are injured.. Keep developing Gawn & King. Trade Jamar for some kitchen knives.

Clark should be 1st ruck 70% then forward 30%. Fitzpatrick ruck 30% forward 30% then bench, that is providing Hogan & Dawes fit and playing. Spencer to replace Clark or Fitzy if (when) they are injured.. Keep developing Gawn & King. Trade Jamar for some kitchen knives.

The club needs to let him retire as a Demon. It's time the club supports its older players and stand by Jamar - showing him the same loyalty and respect he has recently shown us.

If the club keeps trying to discard the older players when they begin to lose form to receive weak draft picks or other forms of cheap Chinese made "kitchen knives" what kind of message is that for our playing list?

An older player like Jamar will aid the development of the young rucks even if it's his final season before retirement. Having him chaired of the ground in the red and blue portrays a far better message and just might help the likes of Frawley re-sign at the years end (or others in the future).

On that note, would any of us like to see the loyal Grimes and Jones treated like mutton when they hit their thirties? I certainly hope not.

The club needs to let him retire as a Demon. It's time the club supports its older players and stand by Jamar - showing him the same loyalty and respect he has recently shown us.

If the club keeps trying to discard the older players when they begin to lose form to receive weak draft picks or other forms of cheap Chinese made "kitchen knives" what kind of message is that for our playing list?

An older player like Jamar will aid the development of the young rucks even if it's his final season before retirement. Having him chaired of the ground in the red and blue portrays a far better message and just might help the likes of Frawley re-sign at the years end (or others in the future).

On that note, would any of us like to see the loyal Grimes and Jones treated like mutton when they hit their thirties? I certainly hope not.

In the second decade of the AFL 21st Century it is probably going to happen.

With free agency getting stronger clubs are going to look at trading players before they hit Free agency and maximize the value that can be achieved for them.

We all need to get our minds around the fact that by 2020 very few players will be one club players.

That is the brave new world we find ourselves in.