On 10/01/2014 at 11:23, hogans_heroes said:

Dean Kent might be our best player in 5 years

He has superstar written all over him, I dont see one weakness in his game

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic but his set shots for goal are abysmal.

So is Viney's for that matter.

hogans_heroes, on 10 Jan 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

  On 10/01/2014 at 11:23, hogans_heroes said:

Dean Kent might be our best player in 5 years

He has superstar written all over him, I dont see one weakness in his game

  On 11/01/2014 at 01:47, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic but his set shots for goal are abysmal.
So is Viney's for that matter.

At least Kent is getting the ball in the inside 50 and having a shot. That is an improvement on most of our 2013 team.

  On 11/01/2014 at 00:32, the master said:

I think what Theo was trying to say is that Barlow was a dominant VFL player prior to getting his chance. On the other hand Matt Jones was a decent performing VFL player who had only just graduated from local footy to VFL reserves then VFL seniors. It's hard enough going from dominant VFL player like Barlow to top level AFL player, how unlikely is it that Matt Jones goes from relative anonymity in the VFL to a household AFL name?

Based on his trajectory in the last eighteen months, it seems inevitable :-)

  On 10/01/2014 at 11:23, hogans_heroes said:

Dean Kent might be our best player in 5 years

He has superstar written all over him, I dont see one weakness in his game

  On 10/01/2014 at 07:42, maximum bob said:

From my observations watching Paul Roos coaching and his team selection & player development at Sydney, Matt Jones is exactly the type of player he would have some faith in. As always, time will tell.

Is there ANY player that hasn't been said about so far....

  On 11/01/2014 at 00:32, the master said:

I think what Theo was trying to say is that Barlow was a dominant VFL player prior to getting his chance. On the other hand Matt Jones was a decent performing VFL player who had only just graduated from local footy to VFL reserves then VFL seniors. It's hard enough going from dominant VFL player like Barlow to top level AFL player, how unlikely is it that Matt Jones goes from relative anonymity in the VFL to a household AFL name?

A bit of research shows that there isn't the huge disparity many think. Barlow burst on the AFL scene in 2010 with an average of 27 touches per game, 16 of those were handballs. Jones first season isn't close to Barlow's but to write him off now as someone who could never get to that standard is unfair and underserved of the mocking Theox gave it.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=9&pid1=3389&tid2=12&pid2=3845&type=A&fid1=P&fopt1=2010&fid2=S

  On 10/01/2014 at 09:40, TheoX said:

Barlow-like? LOLZA. He didn't even stand out in the VFL.

Okay, TheoX....LOLZA? laugh out loud z? a?

Help us out.

If people on here don't agree with these contract extensions then they should watch more footy and show more interest in the players.

Great news to have these two signed up, especially for Jones, I'm a big fan.

  On 11/01/2014 at 03:34, McQueen said:

A bit of research shows that there isn't the huge disparity many think. Barlow burst on the AFL scene in 2010 with an average of 27 touches per game, 16 of those were handballs. Jones first season isn't close to Barlow's but to write him off now as someone who could never get to that standard is unfair and underserved of the mocking Theox gave it. http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=9&pid1=3389&tid2=12&pid2=3845&type=A&fid1=P&fopt1=2010&fid2=S

McQueen, I think the reason he is undervalued by so many Melbourne supporters is 'guilt by association'. As one of the group of 'ready made' players brought to the club under Neeld's direction, he is assumed to be a failure on account of that group (Pederson, Rodan, Byrnes.....) being perceived to have failed (not unfairly probably). Oddly enough also, the fact that he was very visible by playing 22 games and getting a fair bit of it, unconsciously strengthens the idea that he is symptomatic of the problem. The more objective reality, considering where he came from and the team he came to, is that he was simply an outstanding story. And that story has some way to travel I reckon. When you compare the positive sentiment that was directed to James Magner in and after his first year, the lack of respect for Matt Jones in a similar situation is just very odd.

  On 11/01/2014 at 05:22, Webber said:

McQueen, I think the reason he is undervalued by so many Melbourne supporters is 'guilt by association'. As one of the group of 'ready made' players brought to the club under Neeld's direction, he is assumed to be a failure on account of that group (Pederson, Rodan, Byrnes.....) being perceived to have failed (not unfairly probably). Oddly enough also, the fact that he was very visible by playing 22 games and getting a fair bit of it, unconsciously strengthens the idea that he is symptomatic of the problem. The more objective reality, considering where he came from and the team he came to, is that he was simply an outstanding story. And that story has some way to travel I reckon. When you compare the positive sentiment that was directed to James Magner in and after his first year, the lack of respect for Matt Jones in a similar situation is just very odd.

I think it's great that you're in his corner, but it's almost like you have a vested interest in him. Do you? Scandal on Demonland: Webber's lovechild.

It's great that he was able to come in and have an impact. It doesn't change the fact that he's an ordinary kick and a poor decision maker. Anyone who watched the games this year can tell you that. At 26, how much better is he going to get? Maybe he can work on aspects of his game and I hope he can, but let's not lose sight of him sticking out in a DEPLORABLE midfield. One of the worst ever assembled. Nothing at all to do with Neeld selecting him, or associating him with failure, or any other theory that doesn't come back to him being just okay.

He does have pace and he can find the footy, so here's hoping you're right and he can take his game to another level. But as it stands, a midfield that can challenge the best sides has better players than Matt Jones in it.

I agree with most of what Webber writes except the part about his visibility. I don't know how others think but I found that he went about what he did fairly quietly and unobtrusively and I would often be surprised at the end of a game to see that he had picked up 24 touches.

I suppose if he had a weird haircut or tatts all over his body or even a lower number, I might notice him more. Maybe, it's just one of those things?

  On 11/01/2014 at 15:59, P-man said:

I think it's great that you're in his corner, but it's almost like you have a vested interest in him. Do you? Scandal on Demonland: Webber's lovechild.

It's great that he was able to come in and have an impact. It doesn't change the fact that he's an ordinary kick and a poor decision maker. Anyone who watched the games this year can tell you that. At 26, how much better is he going to get? Maybe he can work on aspects of his game and I hope he can, but let's not lose sight of him sticking out in a DEPLORABLE midfield. One of the worst ever assembled. Nothing at all to do with Neeld selecting him, or associating him with failure, or any other theory that doesn't come back to him being just okay.

He does have pace and he can find the footy, so here's hoping you're right and he can take his game to another level. But as it stands, a midfield that can challenge the best sides has better players than Matt Jones in it.

He was our second best midfielder last year, so how quickly is the progress of others going to happen?

And it's a contract extension - it doesn't mean he is guaranteed a spot. If you are right about him then he can be a depth player (I know how much Land loves depth) in the last part of his contract.

  On 11/01/2014 at 15:59, P-man said:

I think it's great that you're in his corner, but it's almost like you have a vested interest in him. Do you? Scandal on Demonland: Webber's lovechild.

It's great that he was able to come in and have an impact. It doesn't change the fact that he's an ordinary kick and a poor decision maker. Anyone who watched the games this year can tell you that. At 26, how much better is he going to get? Maybe he can work on aspects of his game and I hope he can, but let's not lose sight of him sticking out in a DEPLORABLE midfield. One of the worst ever assembled. Nothing at all to do with Neeld selecting him, or associating him with failure, or any other theory that doesn't come back to him being just okay.

He does have pace and he can find the footy, so here's hoping you're right and he can take his game to another level. But as it stands, a midfield that can challenge the best sides has better players than Matt Jones in it.

At least he tries!!

It seems Roosy's main aim is to create an environment that the players are excited to work in. It could be argued that repairing morale was his first task.

In this way, I think one year contracts have a downside. It's a way of putting a young player on notice that they are at the crossroads. Neither of these two players deserve that ultimatum, so for me, two years is perfect and could give a positive morale boost to the rest of the group.

Even if Jones, for example, is only a depth player, there is nothing wrong with locking in a guy with a great attitude, work ethic and ball-winning ability.

Could just be we're getting all the lesser contracts sorted so we can make sure we can better any offers for Chip...

I see (M Jones) as your classic role player. He'll do exactly what he's told in an unspectacular way, just as he did under Neeld.

When all our mids are crashing into each other through lack of familiarity with each other and the game plan, Jones will be doing as asked effectively allowing the newbies to grow into their role.

  On 12/01/2014 at 00:53, stuie said:

Could just be we're getting all the lesser contracts sorted so we can make sure we can better any offers for Chip...

Bingo. We need to know where our salary cap's at next year and beyond, so we know how much we can start offering our big guns. The club can lock in potentially great players at a lower cost if they are unproven. If these two have break out years and kill it on the field in 2014, they'll cost us more to re-sign after the season, leaving less money for the big contract re-signings like Chip.

  On 11/01/2014 at 23:08, rpfc said:

He was our second best midfielder last year, so how quickly is the progress of others going to happen?

And it's a contract extension - it doesn't mean he is guaranteed a spot. If you are right about him then he can be a depth player (I know how much Land loves depth) in the last part of his contract.

I don't disagree. I've already stated twice, this will make it three times, that I am in favour of his signing.

I see him as depth, perhaps not immediately, although out of interest I had a look at the "Round 1 vs St Kilda" thread, and 47 of 127 teams posted had him as best 22. So a bit over a third. Not an exact science, but I don't think what I'm saying is really that controversial based on those numbers.

Given where he sat in the pecking order last year, it's hard not to see him making the field in the short term, I will agree with that.

  On 11/01/2014 at 15:59, P-man said:

I think it's great that you're in his corner, but it's almost like you have a vested interest in him. Do you? Scandal on Demonland: Webber's lovechild. :)It's great that he was able to come in and have an impact. It doesn't change the fact that he's an ordinary kick and a poor decision maker. Anyone who watched the games this year can tell you that. At 26, how much better is he going to get? Maybe he can work on aspects of his game and I hope he can, but let's not lose sight of him sticking out in a DEPLORABLE midfield. One of the worst ever assembled. Nothing at all to do with Neeld selecting him, or associating him with failure, or any other theory that doesn't come back to him being just okay.He does have pace and he can find the footy, so here's hoping you're right and he can take his game to another level. But as it stands, a midfield that can challenge the best sides has better players than Matt Jones in it.

Maybe. Or not.

  On 10/01/2014 at 23:22, Webber said:

He played 17 games in the VFL seniors in 2012, as a first year player, having been moved up from the ressies after a handful of games. He won the Box Hill Hawks most consistent award and finished Fourth in their B n F based on those 17 games. Most of those games were in the backline before being shifted to the midfield much later in the season. The previous year he played for Labrador in the NEAFL. He plays 22 games for the MFC in 2013 and finishes top 5 B n F.

You say he 'didn't even stand out in the VFL'. Ridiculous rubbish. How much more impressive could this guy's trajectory have been? Feel free to name someone with a quicker ascent in football.

Ridiculous rubbish? Comparing M Jones to Michael Barlow, a standout at AFL level is just that. Who cares about Jones'rise to AFL level, there's no way in hell he would have got a game with any other AFL team last year, so it all it shows is how relatively weak our midfield was. Nicho was drafted from the ammos, is he the next Barlow too?

  On 10/01/2014 at 23:46, McQueen said:

Funny, I thought standing out at VFL level usually offers the best chance at getting you on to an AFL list.

Yeah, that's right, which is why it's a suprise M Jones was even drafted (obviously we were desperate for mids). Barlow won a liston trophy: that's standing out in the VFL, not coming 4th or whaterver it was in a VFL BnF.

  On 11/01/2014 at 15:59, P-man said:

At 26, how much better is he going to get?

His progression this year and next should be measured against others who have also only had the opportunity to play 12 months at the highest level.

I think we should remove age from equation from Jones noting he has only been in the system for a year.

He will continue improving, will never be a star but will be handy depth and I can handle that at the moment if that forces Toump, Salem, Tyson etc to work harder to pass him.

As a general comment, there is one thing I am looking for in Roos - that is improvement in the majority of players.

That will come from two things

1/ You would expect natural improvement with the likes of Viney and Toumpas after a few years in the system.

2/ I expect improvement because of better structures. Teach players where to run and how to make position and the whole group will benefit. We will get more possessions ( and hopefully more meaningful possessions) and more system and hopefully some more easy ball. This should especially be noticeable with our midfield unit and hopefully with our system into attack and out of defense.

  On 11/01/2014 at 23:08, rpfc said:

He was our second best midfielder last year, so how quickly is the progress of others going to happen?

And it's a contract extension - it doesn't mean he is guaranteed a spot. If you are right about him then he can be a depth player (I know how much Land loves depth) in the last part of his contract.

Second best ball winner and consistent but not quite our second best I'd say. I expect Viney, Vince and Tyson to join Nath Jones as midfielders with more output than Matt Jones in 2014. Probably McKenzie, Cross and Trengove as well. Then Matt Jones will be fighting it out with Michie, Evans, Toumpas and Watts

One thing about Matt Jones - as he's a good runner and reader of the play if he tidies up his kicking then he can rotate to the half back flank. With a lot of teams playing just 6 defenders you need one or two mids who can take their turn lining up on the half back line to spell the back 6.

No one hates the contract extension. I'm just worried that we always seem to sign mediocre players to decent deals when they haven't quite earned it. All of Blease, Dunn, Strauss, Tapscott, Bail and Nicholson being contracted this year is a perfect example of that. It didn't matter much this year but in a couple of years we might have a few rookie promotions and lots of draft picks and not have as much space on the list that we would have liked. It's a bit like we are scared of everyone leaving when I'd rather back the club to keep guys and the players to play to an expiring contract.

  On 13/01/2014 at 01:49, the master said:

Second best ball winner and consistent but not quite our second best I'd say. I expect Viney, Vince and Tyson to join Nath Jones as midfielders with more output than Matt Jones in 2014. Probably McKenzie, Cross and Trengove as well. Then Matt Jones will be fighting it out with Michie, Evans, Toumpas and Watts

One thing about Matt Jones - as he's a good runner and reader of the play if he tidies up his kicking then he can rotate to the half back flank. With a lot of teams playing just 6 defenders you need one or two mids who can take their turn lining up on the half back line to spell the back 6.

No one hates the contract extension. I'm just worried that we always seem to sign mediocre players to decent deals when they haven't quite earned it. All of Blease, Dunn, Strauss, Tapscott, Bail and Nicholson being contracted this year is a perfect example of that. It didn't matter much this year but in a couple of years we might have a few rookie promotions and lots of draft picks and not have as much space on the list that we would have liked. It's a bit like we are scared of everyone leaving when I'd rather back the club to keep guys and the players to play to an expiring contract.

McKenzie is not capable of any meaningful output as he is mediocre at best.His tackling and harassing are his only assets, if he gets the ball in hand he is a liability.

Matt Jones even with only one preseason behind him is already well past Jordie as regards his potential output.

I like Jordie as he always gives 100% but he is extremely limited in what he can offer at this level.

I would hope M.Jones would be one who is capable of playing a role very well, whether in the middle or elsewhere, your suggestion of rotating through a back flank may be his niche.