MELBOURNE TEAM FOR ROUND 1, 2014

[DeeSpencer 25,677]

Thing about multiple talls in the forward line is Hogan actually plays like a small-mid sized forward in terms of the amount of ground he covers and his ability to put on defensive pressure.

At VFL level. Expect Jesse to hit the wall a couple of times in games at AFL level and get subbed out. He's just too big at his age to play full games impacting them like a smaller man too often.

Guys with similar builds - Cloke, Josh Kennedy, Roughead took a long time to be consistent performers. I agree Hogan's endurance and ability to play small will help him but I think expecting a Jack Darling like strong first season as a smaller type is too much to ask.

[Maldonboy38 6,398]

Roos has stated that it is highly unlikely that any of the recent draftees will play much senior footy, and I am convinced that none of them will play round 1. Now delistings, trades and draft are complete I can see round 1 being something like:

Backs: Frawley, Garland, McDonald, Grimes

Mids: Gawn, N Jones, Trengove, Tyson, Vince, Cross, Watts, Blease, Evans, Viney

Forward: Clark, Hogan, Dawes, Howe

Int: Fitzpatrick McKenzie Clisby

Sub: Toumpas

[tonatopia 278]

Now that our midfield has been strengthened, and we have a proper coach, why shouldnt we be aiming for finals?

This side has been selected under the presumtion that Roos allows the players to reach their potential.

FB: Tapscott, Frawley, Garland

HB: Grimes, McDonald, Terlich

C: Toumpas, Viney, Howe

HF: Vince®, Dawes, Trengove®

FF: Hogan, Clarke, Blease®

Fol: Gawn, Jones, Watts

int: Salem®, Tyson®, McKenzie®, sub: M.Jones

® - rotating thru midfield

emg: Dunn, Mitchie, Fitzpatrick, Kent, Kennedy-Harris, Clisby, Jamar

Now, thats a bloody good team.

We should definetly be aiming for finals.

After 6 long years, I am finally happy to support MFC again.

PS, Todd Viney is the Godfather of the MFC. He is the real saviour.

[Striker475 696]

Right...

B: Clisby Frawley Garland

HB: Grimes, McDonald, Terlich

C: Toumpas, Viney, Vince

HF: Howe, Dawes, Watts

F: Clark, Hogan, Blease (up for grabs)

Fol: Gawn, Nathan Jones, Cross

Int: Tyson, McKenzie, Michie

Sub: Kent

None of Salem-JKH-Hunt. Not for a while.

[Macca 16,961]

B: Garland Frawley Grimes

HB: Blease McDonald Dunn

C: Toumpas N Jones Tyson

HF: Trengove Hogan Vince

F: Howe Clark Kent

R: Jamar Watts Viney

INT: Cross Terlich Salem

SUB: Matt Jones

Blease and Grimes for some run out of defence with Dunn used to clear the ball out. Frawley to recapture his dash under Roos and McDonald to get better a year later. We need to start running the ball directly out of defence and we'll need some pacy types back there in order to do so. Blease is a player who I reckon Roos will get the best out of (hopefully) It's a little risky but what the hell.

Salem will probably force the selectors to pick him (all being good) Byrnes, Barry and Kennedy-Harris miss out for Kent.

Couldn't find a spot for Dawes but he'll probably play. Maybe Terlich or Matt Jones to miss out (?) Our forward line just needs a bit more movement and pace. Would have liked to have found a spot for Clisby and/or Michie. Clark can share the ruck duties which means Gawn misses out (for now) McKenzie could come in as a specialist tagger if needs be.

It was quite difficult picking the 22. No doubt a lot will change in the next few months to change opinions.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Macca

[1964nowMORE 489]

I'm loving the fact that in Rd1 quite a few from Dunn, Clisby, Salem, Michie, Strauss, Blease, Gawn, Terlich, Evans, Spencer and Jamar will miss out.

Roos is a big fan of strong mature bodies, I expect therefore Dunn to play a lot more games this year than Salem or Toumpas as an example.

I don't want Salem playing Rd1, I want him looking at Freeman, Billings, Aish etc and thinking how come they get a game and I can't yet! I want him to earn it after 5-6 strong consistent efforts at Casey and Demonland to be in meltdown cause he can't get picked despite the potential and form we all see at the time. Then I believe we will be sitting 4-2 in 7th and starting to believe.

[Young Dee 1,303]

Right...

B: Clisby Frawley Garland

HB: Grimes, McDonald, Terlich

C: Toumpas, Viney, Vince

HF: Howe, Dawes, Watts

F: Clark, Hogan, Blease (up for grabs)

Fol: Gawn, Nathan Jones, Cross

Int: Tyson, McKenzie, Michie

Sub: Kent

None of Salem-JKH-Hunt. Not for a while.

Like this.

But think that one of Clisby, Grimes Terlich (probably Terlich) could be replaced by Dunn or Strauss depending on opposition.

I know I always say this but if Strauss can come on then we can have a very quick/good kicking rebounding defender (something we really need).

Strauss is actually very quick and has the ability to play on your Betts/Jetta types - I don't think any of our other defenders can do that.

I don't know if Toumpas is ready for full games on the wing but could interchange with Watts on the forward flank (and still push up the ground).

Would love to see Harris become our new forward pocket with midfield stints but we may have to wait a bit - so Kent/Blease can fight for forward pocket.

I agree that none of the first years should play early in the year. I would no at all mind if Salem did not get a game next year. I would to wait until Salem can slot straight into the midfield.

I don't like bringing in players like Toumpas and playing them forward because they are not ready for the midfield - just keep them at Casey until thy are ready and develop them as mids.

I know a lot don't like McKenzie but if he works on his kicking he could be our designated tagger - plus he may flourish now that he doesn't have to try and win every contest. Otherwise Evans in.

I like the idea of Clark doing the rucking in the forward half of the ground - if only we had someone who could do the same in the backline - Gawn would hardly break a sweat.

[DeeSpencer 25,677]

You don't like playing young players from the flanks young dee?

So:

Geelong - Duncan, Christensen

Coll - Sidebottom, Beams, Kennedy

Sydney - Parker, Mitchell

Rich - Ellis, Vlaustin even Dusty

Haw - Brad Hill

Have all been doing it wrong playing some of their better kids at half forward or half back in recent years?

I agree when at Casey that Salem should play midfield but if he's doing well then he should play half forward at AFL level to develop. Toumpas played too much AFL in a bad team but when he was in the VFL he played pretty well and looked a class above. I'm hoping Salem can do the same but be nursed in to a better AFL team via the forward flank, similar to Kent's progression through the year.

[Young Dee 1,303]

Its easier for a kid to slot into a good team as there is less pressure to perform and more support.

It also depends on the player - Toumpas, Watts, Morton and Salem didnt come AFL ready.

Viney and Hogan show that a year at VFL cant hurt - it can help them develop in a specified role and build their confidence, fitness and strength.

I believe in playing players when they truly deserve to be in the team (can hold down a position) and I think Salem will find it hard to break into the team next year.

I think he should be developed in the position that Roos sees him in the future if that is as a pure midfielder then he stays at Casey until he deserves to be in our midfield.

If he is in our best 22 but does not deserve a game in the midfield and Roos thinks his game would benefit from playing as a back for a bit - then I would understand.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Young Dee

[Hannibal 5,814]

I know I always say this but if Strauss can come on then we can have a very quick/good kicking rebounding defender (something we really need).

Strauss is actually very quick and has the ability to play on your Betts/Jetta types - I don't think any of our other defenders can do that.

The problem with Strauss is that he's soft. Blease is soft too. And Trengove for that matter needs to go far harder. As does Watts, etc.

Our club's football development has been abysmal. Trengove's development has been appalling. I actually love Trengove as a player and he has the capacity to have a real hard edge about his footy, but he's been horribly handled and just hasn't gone at the footy hard enough for the last two years.

I look forward to seeing a massive change next year and to see our players far more intense at the footy.

[rjay 24,917]

This might be a bit left field but I think our back line is too small and given our forwards I think Fitzy might do well at CHB. Macdonald at FB and Frawley and Garland as HBF plus two smalls. Fitzy's size is better suited to the big forwards in Tippett, Walker etc and his body is getting bigger. He's quick and athletic.

I've thought this too with a lot of 200cm forwards coming into the game. We need a big defender so it will be interesting to watch training and see how Fitz is being developed, he may well end up at CHB. It's certainly an option.

[stueyspencer no12 73]

I've thought this too with a lot of 200cm forwards coming into the game. We need a big defender so it will be interesting to watch training and see how Fitz is being developed, he may well end up at CHB. It's certainly an option.

I think there is something in this suggestion, tho I think he would do better in the back pocket against players like Hale. He always kills us.

An earlier poster selected Tapscott in the back line. Hooray! It stuns me that after his initial 6 games pre hamstring, when he played so well down back, he's not been played there again. For a start he's a great kicker-in.he's looked like a fish out of water recently.

As to Salem I don't think one can generalise about playing young players. Next year's team will be physically stronger than recently. If his form is up to it I would play him. I do find it hard to see Strauss getting a game.

A really important choice will be the small forward. We need someone there with real pace, bearing in mind the talls who presumably will be playing. Could Byrnes be a Better player in a bigger, stronger forward line? He does have goal sneak smarts tho I'm sure we can do better later.

[Rob Mac...... 638]

This might be a bit left field but I think our back line is too small and given our forwards I think Fitzy might do well at CHB. Macdonald at FB and Frawley and Garland as HBF plus two smalls. Fitzy's size is better suited to the big forwards in Tippett, Walker etc and his body is getting bigger. He's quick and athletic.

I've thought this too with a lot of 200cm forwards coming into the game. We need a big defender so it will be interesting to watch training and see how Fitz is being developed, he may well end up at CHB. It's certainly an option.

I've been thinking the same as you two for ages. Fitzy's size and speed will be very handy in future, plus he can 2nd ruck.

[What 18,810]

JKH is a much bigger chance of playing Round 1 than Salem is

[Don24 103]

The problem with Strauss is that he's soft. Blease is soft too. And Trengove for that matter needs to go far harder. As does Watts, etc.

Our club's football development has been abysmal. Trengove's development has been appalling. I actually love Trengove as a player and he has the capacity to have a real hard edge about his footy, but he's been horribly handled and just hasn't gone at the footy hard enough for the last two years.

I look forward to seeing a massive change next year and to see our players far more intense at the footy.

Strauss is not soft by any means. He has a lot of courage in fact. Just needs to impact games more

[Hannibal 5,814]

Strauss is not soft by any means. He has a lot of courage in fact. Just needs to impact games more

Clearly we disagree.

But I'd also like to point out that a player can have courage and still be very soft.

[Roost It 1,434]

Terlich won't play

Dawes will

Blease will be lucky if he does

Strauss is little to no chance

Michie will start on the ground

[rjay 24,917]

JKH is a much bigger chance of playing Round 1 than Salem is

I wouldn't think so, but if he does it's an amazing story.

[hamishm13 0]

fb terlich frawley garland
hb grimes* mcdonald dunn*
c tyson* n jones* watts*
hf vince* clark trengove*
ff hogan dawes howe
fol gawn cross* viney*

int mitchie* mckenzie* toumpas* (salem*)

* = have the ability to rotate/play through the midfield if required

Whats left (in order of likelihood of getting a game for the position)-

small/medium forwards- kent, byrnes, kennedy-harris

tall forwards- fitzpatrick
midfield- m jones, evans, riley, bail, barry, hunt

ruck- spencer, jamar

small/medium defenders- clisby, nicholson, strauss

tall defenders- pedersen

Utilities- tapscott, blease

I'm then hoping for big improvements from blease, tapscott, kennedy-harris, evans and clisby to push themselves into the team towards the end of the year when spots open up due to form/injuries

Edited November 24, 2013 by hamishm13

[CBDees 3,167]

fb terlich frawley garland

hb grimes* mcdonald dunn*

c tyson* n jones* watts*

hf vince* clark trengove*

ff hogan dawes howe

fol gawn cross* viney*

int mitchie* mckenzie* toumpas* (salem*)

* = have the ability to rotate/play through the midfield if required

Whats left (in order of likelihood of getting a game for the position)-

small/medium forwards- kent, byrnes, kennedy-harris

tall forwards- fitzpatrick

midfield- m jones, evans, riley, bail, barry, hunt

ruck- spencer, jamar

small/medium defenders- clisby, nicholson, strauss

tall defenders- pedersen

Utilities- tapscott, blease

I'm then hoping for big improvements from blease, tapscott, kennedy-harris, evans and clisby to push themselves into the team towards the end of the year when spots open up due to form/injuries

LIKE! (Commendable for a first post > Welcome to Demonland!)

I like the look of this team and might add: > Emergencies: kent, fitzpatrick, clisby

Edited November 24, 2013 by CBDees

[titan_uranus 24,996]

Strauss is not soft by any means. He has a lot of courage in fact. Just needs to impact games more

If he has courage, he's never shown it. I see him as the softest player on our list.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

FB: Garland, Frawley, Terlich

HB: Grimes, McDonald, Vince

C: Cross, Michie, Viney

HF: Watts, Dawes, Evans

FF: Hogan, Clark, Byrnes

FOLL: Jamar, Tyson, N. Jones

INT: Howe, Toumpas, Trengove

SUB: Blease

And out at Casey:

FB: Dunn, Matthew Sully*, Clisby

HB: Hunt, Pedersen, Strauss

C: M. Jones, Reilly, Barry

HF: Bail, Fitzpatrick, Kent

FF: Spencer, Khan Haretuku*, Kennedy-Harris

FOLL: Gawn, Salem, McKenzie

INT: Josh Miller*, Nicholson, Ben Sokol*, Tapscott

* Marks potential rookie selections.

[GawnWithTheWind 604]

FB: Garland, Frawley, Terlich

HB: Grimes, McDonald, Vince

C: Cross, Michie, Viney

HF: Watts, Dawes, Evans

FF: Hogan, Clark, Byrnes

FOLL: Jamar, Tyson, N. Jones

INT: Howe, Toumpas, Trengove

SUB: Blease

And out at Casey:

FB: Dunn, Matthew Sully*, Clisby

HB: Hunt, Pedersen, Strauss

C: M. Jones, Reilly, Barry

HF: Bail, Fitzpatrick, Kent

FF: Spencer, Khan Haretuku*, Kennedy-Harris

FOLL: Gawn, Salem, McKenzie

INT: Josh Miller*, Nicholson, Ben Sokol*, Tapscott

* Marks potential rookie selections.

Byrnes is the forgotten one. Can actually play, and could potentially fill that SF hole we have in the forward line.

I'd say its between him and Kent at the moment.

Vince on a HBF is a stretch, I don't have a great feeling he likes to man up/will man up.

[Coup Cooper 610]

FB: Garland, Frawley, Terlich

HB: Grimes, McDonald, Vince

C: Cross, Michie, Viney

HF: Watts, Dawes, Evans

FF: Hogan, Clark, Byrnes

FOLL: Jamar, Tyson, N. Jones

INT: Howe, Toumpas, Trengove

SUB: Blease

And out at Casey:

FB: Dunn, Matthew Sully*, Clisby

HB: Hunt, Pedersen, Strauss

C: M. Jones, Reilly, Barry

HF: Bail, Fitzpatrick, Kent

FF: Spencer, Khan Haretuku*, Kennedy-Harris

FOLL: Gawn, Salem, McKenzie

INT: Josh Miller*, Nicholson, Ben Sokol*, Tapscott

* Marks potential rookie selections.

So J Best doesn't get a game after kicking 35 goals for Casey?

[Fat Tony 5,228]

‘Certainly Best 22’: Garland, McDonald, Grimes, Clark, N Jones, Frawley, Watts, Vince, Cross, Dawes, Hogan, Howe

‘Likely Best 22’: Trengove, Viney, Tyson

‘Possibly Best 22’: Dunn, Terlich, Clisby, Blease, Strauss, Toumpas, Salem, Pedersen, Gawn, Jamar, Spencer, Kent, Fitzpatrick, Nicholson, Bail, Tapscott, Byrnes, Evans, Barry, McKenzie, Michie, M Jones, Kennedy-Harris, Hunt

Fat Tony’s 22 for R1 2014 (as at Nov 2013)

Backs: Garland, McDonald, Hogan, Grimes, Clisby, Blease

Midfield: Clark^, N Jones, Frawley, Cross, Watts, Vince, Trengove, Tyson, Viney, Michie, M Jones, Toumpas (sub)

Forwards: Dawes, Howe, Fitzpatrick^, Kent

Notes

• Despite off-season additions to the midfield including some young talent and some more mature blue collar mids, I still believe our midfield will struggle against most sides. And with the modern press making it so difficult to get the ball out of defence, winning the midfield battle is more important than ever before. Further, our midfield is relatively slow and none of the new additions will change that in a big way in 2013.
• Size is a big advantage in winning inside ball IMO (and the opinion of Roos it seems). Look at the impact of Watson, Mundy and Kennedy. Even Roughead was extremely effective when playing as a midfielder. I would like to see us load up the centre square with our best ball winners at every centre bounce. This would require experimentation to determine who these players are and IMO this would probably result in N Jones and Frawley being standouts. Hogan might also be a good centre clearance player, as might Clark if used as a midfielder. Set ups/match ups after the bounce can be planned and could potentially result in us orchestrating mis-matches in our favour.
• Frawley is big, tough, strong and fast and IMO could be a real weapon in the midfield contests. While I would agree with those that say he would be a big loss to the backline, IMO addressing the Inside 50 differential is more important as it lessens the need for a strong backline and allows us to put on our own press. Moreover, Garland has shown the ability to play on the number one forwards and he plays his best footy as a tall defender IMO because it gives him the advantage over his man in terms of agility. Tom McDonald is also better suited to the bigger forwards.
• Grimes is best suited to playing in the backline as the fourth tall/midfield small where he can drop off when required. He is too slow to play on the really fast small forwards.
• I have been calling for Watts to play on a wing for a while and hopefully Roos uses him as an outside mid.
• Unless Gawn comes on in a big way over the preseason, Clark is our best ruckman if he is fit enough to play there. I would prefer to go with a Clark/Fitzpatrick tandem than a lumbering ruckman unless they can dominate the ruck.
• I have my doubts whether an especially large forward line will work without us dominating in the midfield. IMO our best structure would be with two big forwards and Howe or Watts playing as the third tall. Posters pointing to the 2013 Hawthorn side as evidence as to a tall forward line working are underestimating the mobility of their talls. Buddy really plays a small forward and Gunstan and Roughead are particularly mobile. Other than possibly Howe, none of our tall forwards are that mobile or good when the ball hits the ground.
• Two small defender spots are up for grabs with possible candidates including Dunn, Terlich, Clisby, Blease, Strauss, Toumpas, Salem, M Jones and Michie. I could have nominated any two of these, but I would really like to see Blease and Toumpas get an opportunity to win a position in the preseason. IMO Blease played his best games in the backline under Viney and his pace gives us the ability to quickly counter attack.
• Fitzpatrick deserves a position on last year’s form and, as unlikely as it seemed a year ago, with his pace he could become a star. I would keep him clear of the centre bounces and then use him as a ruckman around the ground and have Clark pushing forward.
• We could do with an AFL standard small forward in the rookie draft. I went for Kent as the one permanent small forward, but he needs to step up on last year, and even so we could do with another.
• I don’t see Hogan playing as a defender in the long term, but he may be the most flexible of our key forwards to go back and I think it could be better for his development to play back rather than sitting in the forward 50 with the ball at the other end.