Why?? Don't you like "Robust" insightful threads?

Ok I'll tell you the point, as so often in previous years, our most palpable need was again overlooked!

WE NEEDED STRONG BODIED MIDS!!

Question, what good is an outside mid when the inside mids can't get the agate?

Get It?

TELL US SOMETHING WE DONT KNOW!! FFS what is the point of stewing over something we cant change now! You keep flogging yourself over the past decision on us not picking Wines. Do you get such great pleasure out of this? time to get some reality check ane move on!!

I don't know what's worse. Knee-jerk threads, or the supporters that always think we got the best one.

Personally I'd settle for the second best player available at every pick that we have. That way we'd always get decent quality players in which to build a side as well as our share of quality.

Oh and Wines was good last night. But hardly amazing. His second goal out of the pack impressed me a lot. He also has much better skills than the draft guys gave him credit for...or they are standing up to AFL pressure much better than many would have thought. But it's all irrelevant.

I'm also of the belief than Sam Mayes is >>>>> than Wines and Toumpas. But I don't have a thread for that yet.

Edited September 8, 201312 yr by the master

More whines.

I don't know what's worse. Knee-jerk threads, or the supporters that always think we got the best one.

What about supporters who are man enough to admit they don't know yet?

Hindsight, the favourite pastime of Demonland.

Similar to likes of Nat Fyfe, we weren't the only ones to overlook Wines. It's a situation where we can only give credit to their respective teams recruiting decisions. But comparisons after one season are premature and will only give a distorted result, particularly considering Toumpas was recovering from an injury when drafted.

If we've learned anything from the past few seasons, it's that it's been our development that has let us down. It doesn't matter where a player has been picked in the draft, they generally don't develop themselves.

Let's revisit this after a season or two under Roos and see where we stand.

I can't believe we didn't pick Chris grant at 105 in the 1988 draft. Surely we knew he would play 340 games?

Clearly Wines punched his way out of the womb, where as Jimmy came out gracefully but they are different players and will excel in different areas.

Comparing them is ludicrous.

Clearly Wines punched his way out of the womb, where as Jimmy came out gracefully but they are different players and will excel in different areas.

Comparing them is ludicrous.

For once I want this club to go after the kid who punches his way out of wombs. We always go the graceful ones, the pretty swans, who if developed nicely would be a lovely player. This player is everything we need yet he has a Port jumper on and it stings!

Wingard has had a breakout year but i'm sure port fans would have been spewing they didn't draft so and so instead of wingard when Primus was in charge. I am a big fan of Toumpass. When he gets the footy I stay calm unlike when most of our butchers have it. The pure excitement he had when drafted by us is something I won't forget. Nathan Jones wasn't who he is today as a footy player when he first wore the red and blue. But he has busted his nude nut to get to where he is. Don't discount Jimmy doing the same.

For once I want this club to go after the kid who punches his way out of wombs. We always go the graceful ones, the pretty swans, who if developed nicely would be a lovely player. This player is everything we need yet he has a Port jumper on and it stings!

This from a poster whose name asks us to bring back possibly the softest player Melbourne's had in our 7 year debacle.

Wingard has had a breakout year but i'm sure port fans would have been spewing they didn't draft so and so instead of wingard when Primus was in charge. I am a big fan of Toumpass. When he gets the footy I stay calm unlike when most of our butchers have it. The pure excitement he had when drafted by us is something I won't forget. Nathan Jones wasn't who he is today as a footy player when he first wore the red and blue. But he has busted his nude nut to get to where he is. Don't discount Jimmy doing the same.

Bingo

I think the moot point lies around the frustration of more 'development' players, when an 'impact' player was needed this year.

The scars of Morton, Gysberts, Cook, et al, still run deep.

It's a shame DD36 that you don't have the capacity to debate and squeal for a thread to be deleted because it doesn't suit you.

I still maintain, to this day, that Jimmy T was a puzzling pick.

I think the moot point lies around the frustration of more 'development' players, when an 'impact' player was needed this year.

The scars of Morton, Gysberts, Cook, et al, still run deep.

It's a shame DD36 that you don't have the capacity to debate and squeal for a thread to be deleted because it doesn't suit you.

I still maintain, to this day, that Jimmy T was a puzzling pick.

Puzzling is abit harsh, i think there were 18 recruiters that rated Toumpas as a top 3 pick, Wines was a top 10 pick, was he the right pick for the mfc? possibly not, Wines and Viney would have set up the engine room for the next decade, but we have Toumpas and he has shown good signs that he will be a quality player for us, so i'm not too unhappy

it's not impossible that at some point we might lure Wines back anyway.

Puzzling is abit harsh, i think there were 18 recruiters that rated Toumpas as a top 3 pick, Wines was a top 10 pick, was he the right pick for the mfc? possibly not, Wines and Viney would have set up the engine room for the next decade, but we have Toumpas and he has shown good signs that he will be a quality player for us, so i'm not too unhappy

it's not impossible that at some point we might lure Wines back anyway.

I'm not a recruiter. I watched Vines on Fox footy a couple of games and loved his work - he was always going to impact a contest in his first year. Plus, the boys (Jack and Ollie) were mates.

I hope you're right about Jimmy....I'm even more hopeful that your last sentence comes to fruition.

We all get a whole bunch of things wrong. It's sport - strange things occur.

I've been wrong a stack of times. Tapscott, Watts and Trengove haven't progressed very far when I thought they would. I could give you countless other examples. Better to be wrong on a positive unless it's a 'crazy' positive.

By the way, with the aforementioned 3 players, it could easily be a development issue - have we 'developed' Toumpas properly in his 1st year? We'd all have to admit that it's been a turbulent year for the club - not a great environment for a fresh faced 18 year old to come into.

It's way too early for an evaluation on Toumpas - that's the error that people are making. Was anyone here at their best when they were 19 years old - at anything!!

Give the kid a few more years (in a proper environment with the right culture)

I'm not a recruiter. I watched Vines on Fox footy a couple of games and loved his work - he was always going to impact a contest in his first year. Plus, the boys (Jack and Ollie) were mates.

I hope you're right about Jimmy....I'm even more hopeful that your last sentence comes to fruition.

Playing alongside your best mate in your home state under Paul Roos would be tempting for anyone i reckon, especially if we get up and going abit

Btw, just picked up the quinella @ Bendigo.

Stynes (1st) and Jimmy's Better (2nd)

5 clams @ 11.70. Giddy up!

Edited September 8, 201312 yr by jumbo returns

You're an absolute joke, bub.

You're now saying that Wines is better than Toumpas becuase he plays well in finals.

How the f**k do you know what Toumpas would be like in a final?

Stop whinging, stop crying, learn to move on.

for christ sake you r an absolute buffoon in youre incapable of decipehring whats said.

You whinge when others apparent ly dont yet youre totally inept at this.

The argument pivots not on that he is playing finals and Toumpas isnt. Thats a facial and strawmans argument. Most befitting you.

The comparison is that one is already accomplished and capable of playing at a high level and the other struggles most game and hasnt got his act together yet.

Immediately some will jump on the yet. This cant take away from where both are currently.

The point of mentioning the finals is that Wines seems quite at home and capable even at this level. Finals, arguably always more demanding than h&a. Its not that his IS playing them but that he can. Toumpas isnt settled even at H&a level . he would be at sea in the finals Wines isnt . Its therefore a very simple deduction to make that Wines is far ahead of Toumpas.

Those who now argue how good /better Dimnitri will be for Roos, well the same surely must be afforded Wines also.

This from a poster whose name asks us to bring back possibly the softest player Melbourne's had in our 7 year debacle.

Leave the lady alone mate, may be she liked the player.

I hate guys who like to pick on women.

Edited September 8, 201312 yr by TheBigFrog

Bb do you still sook about bad things that happened in your childhood?

It seems that you have a hard time letting go of things.

Why not sit back and evaluate them in five years time. Then, at least, you won't look stupid in five years time.

You're an absolute joke, bub.

You're now saying that Wines is better than Toumpas becuase he plays well in finals.

How the f**k do you know what Toumpas would be like in a final?

Stop whinging, stop crying, learn to move on.

for christ sake you r an absolute buffoon in youre incapable of decipehring whats said.

You whinge when others apparent ly dont yet youre totally inept at this.

The argument pivots not on that he is playing finals and Toumpas isnt. Thats a facial and strawmans argument. Most befitting you.

The comparison is that one is already accomplished and capable of playing at a high level and the other struggles most game and hasnt got his act together yet.

Immediately some will jump on the yet. This cant take away from where both are currently.

The point of mentioning the finals is that Wines seems quite at home and capable even at this level. Finals, arguably always more demanding than h&a. Its not that his IS playing them but that he can. Toumpas isnt settled even at H&a level . he would be at sea in the finals Wines isnt . Its therefore a very simple deduction to make that Wines is far ahead of Toumpas.

Those who now argue how good /better Dimnitri will be for Roos, well the same surely must be afforded Wines also.

Titan I did my best at trying to decifher BB's message:

* For Christ sake you're an absolute buffoon in that you're incapable of deciphering what's said.

You whine when others apparently don't, yet you're totally inapt at this.

The argument pivots not on that he is playing finals and Toumpas isn't but that one is already accomplished and capable of playing at a high level and the other struggles most of the game and hasn't got his act together.

Immediately some will jump on, yet this cant take away from where both are currently. (?)

The point of mentioning the finals is that Wines seems quite at home and capable even at this level. Finals, arguably is always more demanding than h&a (home and away?). Its not that his IS playing them but that he can. Toumpas isnt settled even at H&a level . He would be at sea in the finals, Wines isn't . It's therefore a very simple deduction to make that Wines is far ahead of Toumpas.

-

So in short, Wines is ahead of Toumpas because Wines can play finals.

-

So in short, Wines is ahead of Toumpas because Wines can play finals.

Beacause he CAN play at that level and Toumpas wouldnt be able to. Succint isnt it Therefore Wines is way ahead of Toumpas. Its fairly simple really.

Its not that he IS playing that automatically gifts Wines some kudos. Its that hes able to once there

Beacause he CAN play at that level and Toumpas wouldnt be able to. Succint isnt it Therefore Wines is way ahead of Toumpas. Its fairly simple really.

Its not that he IS playing that automatically gifts Wines some kudos. Its that hes able to once there

+1 bb

Wines is playing his second finals game next week.

Toumpas is struggling to maintain a spot in the worst team in the competition.

Who knows what the future will bring but right now the are in different leagues.

for christ sake you r an absolute buffoon in youre incapable of decipehring whats said.

You whinge when others apparent ly dont yet youre totally inept at this.

The argument pivots not on that he is playing finals and Toumpas isnt. Thats a facial and strawmans argument. Most befitting you.

The comparison is that one is already accomplished and capable of playing at a high level and the other struggles most game and hasnt got his act together yet.

Immediately some will jump on the yet. This cant take away from where both are currently.

The point of mentioning the finals is that Wines seems quite at home and capable even at this level. Finals, arguably always more demanding than h&a. Its not that his IS playing them but that he can. Toumpas isnt settled even at H&a level . he would be at sea in the finals Wines isnt . Its therefore a very simple deduction to make that Wines is far ahead of Toumpas.

Those who now argue how good /better Dimnitri will be for Roos, well the same surely must be afforded Wines also.

Beacause he CAN play at that level and Toumpas wouldnt be able to. Succint isnt it Therefore Wines is way ahead of Toumpas. Its fairly simple really.

Its not that he IS playing that automatically gifts Wines some kudos. Its that hes able to once there

You're still completely off it.

Your argument is that Wines is better because he can play finals.

How do you know that Toumpas can't? Because you didn't like him in the home and away? That's a horrendously biased and ridiculous argument. Firstly, Toumpas played the year in a bottom 2 side. Of course he's not going to look like he would play well in finals football, but you wouldn't know until it happens. Moreover, there's no rule that says poor in home and away = poor in finals. Look at Nick Duigan right now. Immense third quarter for Carlton despite playing a grand total of two games all year.

Toumpas has never played a final. Until he does, and sucks, you cannot use Wines' finals form to argue he is better than Toumpas.

Your arguments are pathetic.

+1 bb

Wines is playing his second finals game next week.

Toumpas is struggling to maintain a spot in the worst team in the competition.

Who knows what the future will bring but right now the are in different leagues.

Thankyou OD, RobbieF and others . I thought I was just imagining it.

Jimmy may well mature into something and by god he needs to to warrant the pick used . Who and where hes at isnt the real concern for mine as they are all different . It s just that he was touted as ready made, quite mature, playing men etc etc.

Somehow hes gone backward. That worries me. I sense Todd and Co got overruled on this one.