Oh the I thought we had a deal, even though we had nothing in writing or verbally besides a "if you cooperate you may get this" email. Totally incompetent from Little and his team.

It looks like The Age has given it a short shift too with the reporting of it. The AFL have clearly come out and said there was never a deal and yet they have glossed over or ignored that point when reporting Little comments.

  On 21/06/2014 at 23:32, Redleg said:

I must say that like so many others I am getting sick of this whole episode. I really don't care anymore if the players are given short suspensions or none at all. Basically they have been misled by people they trusted and who effectively ruled them. They now have far more serious issues to be concerned about, their health. That is far more serious than any suspension.

As I have said before I find the behaviour of Essendon Officials both during and after the scandal disgraceful. To reappoint Hird on the day of the AFL penalties was disgusting. To have the Doctor who allowed this to happen to still be in charge of the player's health is more disgusting. He should be ashamed of his behaviour in this scandal.

I am at the stage where I feel you can let the players off and ban the Board and the officials from AFL involvement.

I would stand and applaud the banning of the Essendon Board and Officials involved who to this very moment argue that the players were not given anything banned or a danger to player's health yet admit in the same breath they don't know what was administered. How do they sleep at night? Shameful and disgusting. I wish every player involved sues the club.

I said exactly this months ago. What we are dealing with here is the players but most want to see "Essendon" flayed. Essendon have been dealt with. Not to my satisfaction and not to many here I'd imagine, but their penalty has been determined. It's the players time now.

And Redleg I would have thought you of all people would understand the inconsistencies in penalties under any legal system.

  On 21/06/2014 at 23:32, Redleg said:

I must say that like so many others I am getting sick of this whole episode. I really don't care anymore if the players are given short suspensions or none at all. Basically they have been misled by people they trusted and who effectively ruled them. They now have far more serious issues to be concerned about, their health. That is far more serious than any suspension.

As I have said before I find the behaviour of Essendon Officials both during and after the scandal disgraceful. To reappoint Hird on the day of the AFL penalties was disgusting. To have the Doctor who allowed this to happen to still be in charge of the player's health is more disgusting. He should be ashamed of his behaviour in this scandal.

'Redleg', I still don't get why the players are sticking tight with the club and ex coach that screwed them and why they allow the doctor to administer them.

  On 22/06/2014 at 00:28, Baghdad Bob said:

I said exactly this months ago. What we are dealing with here is the players but most want to see "Essendon" flayed. Essendon have been dealt with. Not to my satisfaction and not to many here I'd imagine, but their penalty has been determined. It's the players time now.

And Redleg I would have thought you of all people would understand the inconsistencies in penalties under any legal system.

Is this true, though? What penalties can ASADA impose if 2 or more (let alone 34!) players are found to have contravened the code? They may consider the AFL's sanction last year, but I'd have thought they wouldn't have thought that enough - especially after this dragging out process.

  On 22/06/2014 at 00:28, Baghdad Bob said:

...What we are dealing with here is the players but most want to see "Essendon" flayed.

...

Essendon have been dealt with. Not to my satisfaction and not to many here I'd imagine, but their penalty has been determined. It's the players time now.

...

I don't think this is quite actuate. Hird, Dank, Reid, Thompson and all other support staff or coaches can also be given infraction notices and banned for up to 4 years I believe.

I do agree that I think what most people want is is for the club to be flayed. And I agree that the punishment so far had been insufficient AND where punishment had occurred, Essendon have deliberately and publicly thumbed their nose at it.

As a result I think most people want the Essendon players to be banned so that the club is hurt. While that punishes the players, it also means the club will get it's due.

Finally I think people, while mostly empathising with the players, want to see them banned, not as punishment, but as a deterrent. To ensure this doesn't happen again and to put a line through the "we didn't know" defence.

Essendon, Hird, Thompson and Corcoran (and Doc Reid) were dealt with by the AFL on governance issues and those alone.

The case against the club and those persons and any other staff including players has not yet been heard, I don't think ASADA can avoid dealing with the matter in the near future and I believe Essendon's action in the Federal Court is doomed.

The situation with the players is not dissimilar to that of Belarus shotputter Nadzeya Ostapchuk who had Olympic Gold taken off her in London two years ago when unbeknown to her, her coach spiked her drink and thought he would get away with it. She lost her gold medal and will not be able to compete until later this year even though she had no idea she had taken a banned substance. There are plenty of others who have been relieved of prizes in various sports including the famous case of Lance Armstrong and there are lots who got away with it at the expense of athletes who worked hard to get the top but were denied by cheats.

We, in Australia, seem to have developed a mindset whereby East German and Chinese athletes should be branded as drug cheats when they record outstanding achievements but if they're Aussies, we should give them a free pass because they were "duped". This is going to make us a laughing stock in world sport and we will suffer in terms of lost prestige and become outcasts where we once were world leaders in sportsmanship.

that's right. the east german athletes didn't fully know what they were being administered and if some did they were effectively forced by the totalitarian system to take them

they recorded spectacular results

the blame was fully on the administrators shoulders

but, the athletes had to be punished because it was them ultimately that derived the results from the cheating

this is why wada puts the full onus on the athlete, but allows discounted sentences for limited liability if proven

this is wada's central plank for prevention otherwise it would just be a big roundabout

this is what the afl and the clubs (incl essendon) signed up to by signing up to wada/asada protocols

bit late now to claim it is an unfair process and try to opt out

  On 22/06/2014 at 05:23, daisycutter said:

that's right. the east german athletes didn't fully know what they were being administered and if some did they were effectively forced by the totalitarian system to take them

they recorded spectacular results

the blame was fully on the administrators shoulders

but, the athletes had to be punished because it was them ultimately that derived the results from the cheating

this is why wada puts the full onus on the athlete, but allows discounted sentences for limited liability if proven

this is wada's central plank for prevention otherwise it would just be a big roundabout

this is what the afl and the clubs (incl essendon) signed up to by signing up to wada/asada protocols

bit late now to claim it is an unfair process and try to opt out

This would mean that jobe's brownlow should be recinded.

  On 22/06/2014 at 10:33, demondame said:

This would mean that jobe's brownlow should be recinded.

that's a real possibility, but many of the east german olympic medals still stand even though tainted

raelene boyle never got her gold medal even though it is well known the winner doped

Note: WASA wasn't around then so out of its jurisdiction.

  On 22/06/2014 at 01:03, rjay said:

'Redleg', I still don't get why the players are sticking tight with the club and ex coach that screwed them and why they allow the doctor to administer them.

Because the players signed off on the injecting program.

They were all in after that,no back peddling,signed off on being injected,didnt seek outside clarification.

They are in a position now of hoping the fight put up by the club saves them{nothing else will} and if it doesnt,then they want to see asadas evidence to decide whether they will mount their case or admit stupidity.nowhere else to go really.

Essendon lawyers tweeting frustrates ASADA

  On 23/06/2014 at 02:03, Mike Nolan said:

Essendon lawyers tweeting frustrates ASADA

  On 23/06/2014 at 02:03, Mike Nolan said:

Essendon lawyers tweeting frustrates ASADA

It is interesting how the EFC lawyer's use terms such as ASADA failing to cooperate and failing to respond as if they are totally disregarding ASADA'S authority in the doping matter. I think the next couple of weeks will determine if this runs for months or years....

  On 23/06/2014 at 02:54, chookrat said:

It is interesting how the EFC lawyer's use terms such as ASADA failing to cooperate and failing to respond as if they are totally disregarding ASADA'S authority in the doping matter. I think the next couple of weeks will determine if this runs for months or years....

essendons only hope is they suck someone into their revisional history. ASADA are up for it imho. They will be waiting in court, with BIGGER bats !!

As bored as I am with this saga I hope its stuffs up the next few years for this filty team of drug cheats.

jnrmac the only way that will happen is if it gets through the courts quickly. That way players will be banned and Essendon won't be able to field a team.

The delaying tactics are designed to stretch this to at least two more years so that Essendon can turn its list over and remain semi competitive, even if players get banned. By then there may only be 8-10 left on the list so while it will hurt it won't kill them. In the mean time, they won't win any premierships, the instability and uncertainty has seen to that.

But I want to see them hurt in the short term. Not so much for what they did, but for the way they have thumbed their nose at it since.

Time for the bombers to break out the chewbacca defence

ASADA is fed up like the rest of us.

Battlelines drawn as ASADA hits back at Bombers over injunction

  On 23/06/2014 at 03:17, deanox said:

jnrmac the only way that will happen is if it gets through the courts quickly. That way players will be banned and Essendon won't be able to field a team.

The delaying tactics are designed to stretch this to at least two more years so that Essendon can turn its list over and remain semi competitive, even if players get banned. By then there may only be 8-10 left on the list so while it will hurt it won't kill them. In the mean time, they won't win any premierships, the instability and uncertainty has seen to that.

But I want to see them hurt in the short term. Not so much for what they did, but for the way they have thumbed their nose at it since.

Good point I hadn't thought of that!

and now for some comic relief

May the football gods...and the WORLD SPORTS ADMINISTRATION GODS please smite these recalcitrant idiots and wipe them from our sight.

Choice. Windy Hillers.

1) Suck it up and pay homage to the incalculable and immoral damage you have imposed on those who seek and rely on your governance.

2) go to hell, do not pass go, do not collect any sympathy , do not return.

  On 23/06/2014 at 08:03, hogans_heroes said:

it just never ends

De-register this disgusting club please

Bombers fined $20,000 over draftee testing

Note...its a SUBSEQUENT offence. Unbelievable in current circumstances

  On 21/06/2014 at 22:21, Mike Nolan said:

I would have thought his legal team would be wanting Mr little to keep quiet, every stupid comment he makes hurts their case

Maybe the blond bimbo aka Mrs Hird is his advisor :-)))

  On 23/06/2014 at 08:03, hogans_heroes said:

it just never ends

De-register this disgusting club please

Bombers fined $20,000 over draftee testing

  On 23/06/2014 at 08:07, beelzebub said:

Note...its a SUBSEQUENT offence. Unbelievable in current circumstances

The arrogance of this club knows no bounds - I am sure they knew, and just thought that they could get away with that one too.

I'm with you, Monoccular. It's the arrogance that gets to me. Typical big powerful organisation, thinking they're above the law. You're sprung doing something wrong, so rather than taking your medicine, you hire the best lawyers in the country to comb through the charges searching for a technicality you can use to have the case thrown out.

Not one iota of ethics in thinking about what they might have done to their own players, much less to the thousands of youngsters who model themselves upon them.

This Little creep; what kind of idiots does he think hes dealing with? His basic claim: weve no idea what we injected our players with, but whatever it was, it wasnt illegal.

He keeps saying 'we don't believe', as if he's talking about religion or something. Huh? These are facts, man. You either know or you don't. They seem to have pretty accurate records on lots of other things. My wife is a nurse; she says any time you give any sort of injection, you keep a record of it.

Enough of this. Makes me mad. Dinner time!

  On 23/06/2014 at 03:17, deanox said:

jnrmac the only way that will happen is if it gets through the courts quickly. That way players will be banned and Essendon won't be able to field a team.

The delaying tactics are designed to stretch this to at least two more years so that Essendon can turn its list over and remain semi competitive, even if players get banned. By then there may only be 8-10 left on the list so while it will hurt it won't kill them. In the mean time, they won't win any premierships, the instability and uncertainty has seen to that.

But I want to see them hurt in the short term. Not so much for what they did, but for the way they have thumbed their nose at it since.

yep....and all the more reason to smack them sideways. The insolence. They know they're cooked but dont want to take their medicine. Stuff them