Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[beelzebub 22,373]

ah, beelz... finally

now you see where its going? straight towards the trash corner

No i dont think it is at all.

Im leaning towards a hypothesis that builds upon the notion that whilst Danks is indeed very central to it all, as he would have to be what he may or may not bring to the table in terms of help in all these dealings may not be of the nature many would think or hope for. I.e I think his involvement would only cloud and hinder the process, at least at this time and position of process.

If, and granted a bit of a largish if, ASADA have garnered sufficient information as to allow them to move forward with notices without Dank's impedance then his value to others is not only diminished but his own position becomes compromised as he wont know what they have on him yet. Again whilst Danks is central he isnt actually the target per se of the infraction notices in the main. If the ACC and other depts have been able to put together the jigsaw between them then many ought to be very very worried.

Hird it would seem has been very reliant upon the non co-operation of Danks. This may become moot.

The whole debacle does not rest upon Danks. He just figures largely. As mathematicians have long known you dont need all of the information directly to extrapolate accurately for missing values.

[Sir Why You Little 34,965]

WADA will not let this wither on the vine.

As much as Australians may wish it to happen.

Smith & Masters are by far the best daily Sports Journalists going around.

[ManDee 7,093]

Alternatively if there are no club records what is the basis of the prosecution?

I would expect Notices should be based on more than circumstantial evidence.

One would presume that a failure to keep records could be the basis of a charge. It makes Essendon's defence weaker, in that it would appear that they paid for prohibited substances, where did those substances go? The players may slip through without charges but the club has much to answer for. OH& S issues may be the biggest problem.

[daisycutter 28,700]

One would presume that a failure to keep records could be the basis of a charge. It makes Essendon's defence weaker, in that it would appear that they paid for prohibited substances, where did those substances go? The players may slip through without charges but the club has much to answer for. OH& S issues may be the biggest problem.

agree it makes the club's position weaker

but....it does make the player's position stronger

and wada's main aim seems to put the onus and punishment on the player as the best deterrent, so not sure they like this

although asada could argue that keeping records should also be a player's responsibility

Edited February 28, 2014 by daisycutter

[ManDee 7,093]

This is a time bomb for Essendon. (aptly)

By protecting the players they expose themselves not just now but into the future. If in later life players start to develop health problems Essendon have no records of what they didn't give to the players. May the ticking begin.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Sorry mate I can't see it going this way at all and don't see how you draw that conclusion. This is not a local issue it is a worldwide issue and if the local authorities don't deal with it then the international ones will. There is already pressure from other sports and if you notice one of the tribunals the paper trail goes through has a representative from cycling and they are not going to let any other sport get off lightly after the kicking they've had (admittedly their own fault).

I'm not talking about Wada, I'm referring to asada, & any political interference behind the scenes involving all parties.

WADA won't have much of a cross to bear from us, but local Poli's will run scared.

[dee-luded 2,958]

WADA will not let this wither on the vine.

As much as Australians may wish it to happen.

Smith & Masters are by far the best daily Sports Journalists going around.

that's good to hear WYL, because the way they are hand ling It at the moment, they all l@@k nothing more than 'Masters & his Johnson' spending some time.

[dee-luded 2,958]

No i dont think it is at all.

Im leaning towards a hypothesis that builds upon the notion that whilst Danks is indeed very central to it all, as he would have to be what he may or may not bring to the table in terms of help in all these dealings may not be of the nature many would think or hope for. I.e I think his involvement would only cloud and hinder the process, at least at this time and position of process.

If, and granted a bit of a largish if, ASADA have garnered sufficient information as to allow them to move forward with notices without Dank's impedance then his value to others is not only diminished but his own position becomes compromised as he wont know what they have on him yet. Again whilst Danks is central he isnt actually the target per se of the infraction notices in the main. If the ACC and other depts have been able to put together the jigsaw between them then many ought to be very very worried.

Hird it would seem has been very reliant upon the non co-operation of Danks. This may become moot.

The whole debacle does not rest upon Danks. He just figures largely. As mathematicians have long known you dont need all of the information directly to extrapolate accurately for missing values.

Dank won't give any evidence.

if they had evidence, he would likely go to jail?

the onus to collect proof,. is in the hands of the investigators, & since the many substances were mixed here in Aus, they won't know who's taken what. & I'm sure the pharmacist won't talk.

so it comes back to customs declarations of what was imported? & the accuracy of those records.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

One would presume that a failure to keep records could be the basis of a charge. It makes Essendon's defence weaker, in that it would appear that they paid for prohibited substances, where did those substances go? The players may slip through without charges but the club has much to answer for. OH& S issues may be the biggest problem.

I am not sure that is ASADAs focus. I know WADA were considering their remit over sporting club governance and record keeping failures but the horse has bolted on this on.

I would argue (regretfully) that the lack of records actually acts in Essendon's favour as it makes harder to prove where the substances went.

I think its a pipe dream to expect the players to be exonerated because of the failings of others. They are fully responsible for what goes into their body under ASADA rules. Bruckner and others have confirmed this plain and clear.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

This is a time bomb for Essendon. (aptly)

By protecting the players they expose themselves not just now but into the future. If in later life players start to develop health problems Essendon have no records of what they didn't give to the players. May the ticking begin.

It's been ticking for at least 12 months.

I don't think Eseendon have done much at all for the players ...just the opposite.

[ManDee 7,093]

It's been ticking for at least 12 months.

I don't think Eseendon have done much at all for the players ...just the opposite.

It would appear that Essendon have behaved in their own self interest all along, part of that is an inadvertent act that may save the players from charges. I would be appalled to have a son playing for them and would be taking legal/medical advice re action against the club in the future, but keeping powder dry for now. This is far from the end.

[beelzebub 22,373]

Dank won't give any evidence.

if they had evidence, he would likely go to jail?

the onus to collect proof,. is in the hands of the investigators, & since the many substances were mixed here in Aus, they won't know who's taken what. & I'm sure the pharmacist won't talk.

so it comes back to customs declarations of what was imported? & the accuracy of those records.

Dank is somewhat relying ( imho) on the reluctance of others as much as his self to appear in a court room lest all hell let loose.

Dank is also ( imho ) placing far too much import on his position and ability to dodge the inquisition. He may only think the inquisition has passed him by where as in all likely hood its been shadowing him all along.

Upon this appearance of untouchability have others it seems placed their faith of evasion ( hearing me James ? )

My understanding ( happy to be corrected ) is that WADA/ASADA can happily utilise anything circumstantial ( much like the French system) and it will be incumbent upon the individual to prove innocence.

If the players cant prove they WEREN'T participant , that they didnt take the prohibited substances but something more innocuous ne 'safe' then they may be in for a whole lot of pain.

[daisycutter 28,700]

we've been talking about essendon and its players with regard to what asada might do

but what about punishing danks?

will asada (try to) ban him from all asada compliant competitions/clubs and maybe fine him (doubtful)?

they can hardly punish others without punishing him.........or can they?

[rjay 24,059]

we've been talking about essendon and its players with regard to what asada might do

but what about punishing danks?

will asada (try to) ban him from all asada compliant competitions/clubs and maybe fine him (doubtful)?

they can hardly punish others without punishing him.........or can they?

I think his day will come.

[rjay 24,059]

I'm not talking about Wada, I'm referring to asada, & any political interference behind the scenes involving all parties.

WADA won't have much of a cross to bear from us, but local Poli's will run scared.

...and I'm saying it won't happen partly because WADA will be taking an interest in proceedings.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Dank is somewhat relying ( imho) on the reluctance of others as much as his self to appear in a court room lest all hell let loose.

Dank is also ( imho ) placing far too much import on his position and ability to dodge the inquisition. He may only think the inquisition has passed him by where as in all likely hood its been shadowing him all along.

Upon this appearance of untouchability have others it seems placed their faith of evasion ( hearing me James ? )

My understanding ( happy to be corrected ) is that WADA/ASADA can happily utilise anything circumstantial ( much like the French system) and it will be incumbent upon the individual to prove innocence.

If the players cant prove they WEREN'T participant , that they didnt take the prohibited substances but something more innocuous ne 'safe' then they may be in for a whole lot of pain.

who has got any evidence on him. no one except maybe the pharmacist who mixed the concoctions.

& some possible circumstantial import invoices.

but with experimental substances, that customs wouldn't have even have hird of, they probably couldn't test the substances at the airport.

the only one would be the pharmacist, who is I think, an unreliable sort for a witness. even the pharmacist possibly doesn't know what the substances were he was mixing, if the Boss was clever.

the players certainly don't know what was injected, being told one thing is far from fact. unless they have a sample in a vial.

[dee-luded 2,958]

...and I'm saying it won't happen partly because WADA will be taking an interest in proceedings.

do you know someting? or just sayin?

[beelzebub 22,373]

we've been talking about essendon and its players with regard to what asada might do

but what about punishing danks?

will asada (try to) ban him from all asada compliant competitions/clubs and maybe fine him (doubtful)?

they can hardly punish others without punishing him.........or can they?

of course they can, and will

This is more about the players and their responsibilities, the rest are really just dominoes.

[daisycutter 28,700]

who has got any evidence on him. no one except maybe the pharmacist who mixed the concoctions.

& some possible circumstantial import invoices.

but with experimental substances, that customs wouldn't have even have hird of, they probably couldn't test the substances at the airport.

the only one would be the pharmacist, who is I think, an unreliable sort for a witness. even the pharmacist possibly doesn't know what the substances were he was mixing, if the Boss was clever.

the players certainly don't know what was injected, being told one thing is far from fact. unless they have a sample in a vial.

a licensed chemist who would make and supply a prescription without knowing the ingredients and acknowledge it?

i think not - his license is his livelihood

[daisycutter 28,700]

of course they can, and will

This is more about the players and their responsibilities, the rest are really just dominoes.

just curious, that's all

[rjay 24,059]

who has got any evidence on him. no one except maybe the pharmacist who mixed the concoctions.

& some possible circumstantial import invoices.

but with experimental substances, that customs wouldn't have even have hird of, they probably couldn't test the substances at the airport.

the only one would be the pharmacist, who is I think, an unreliable sort for a witness. even the pharmacist possibly doesn't know what the substances were he was mixing, if the Boss was clever.

the players certainly don't know what was injected, being told one thing is far from fact. unless they have a sample in a vial.

You have to remember how this investigation came into being in the first place, the ACC.

Now whether they have evidence on Dank who knows but you would have to think they have some pretty strong evidence on someone or many someones.

[dee-luded 2,958]

a licensed chemist who would make and supply a prescription without knowing the ingredients and acknowledge it?

i think not - his license is his livelihood

you haven't seen the guy, have you?

I think he was de-registered, or something shady. & foreign with poor verbal skills.

[dee-luded 2,958]

You have to remember how this investigation came into being in the first place, the ACC.

Now whether they have evidence on Dank who knows but you would have to think they have some pretty strong evidence on someone or many someones.

mix 35mls of bottle 'C' with 65mls of sinister sauce, shake & label Vitamin 'C' ; & then take 7.5mls of this substance, & inject intramuscular, into No 24, on 1/4/2013 @ 3.45PM.

say no more

Edited February 28, 2014 by dee-luded

[daisycutter 28,700]

you haven't seen the guy, have you?

I think he was de-registered, or something shady. & foreign with poor verbal skills.

do you know he was de-registered? source please d-l?

if he was, then that would put dank and hence essendon in even more trouble, buying and using unknown substances from a de-registered pharmacist

[dee-luded 2,958]

do you know he was de-registered? source please d-l?

if he was, then that would put dank and hence essendon in even more trouble, buying and using unknown substances from a de-registered pharmacist

he was on the tv, news, of something way back. I can't recall everything but he was dodgy. it was on one of the many shows at the time.

they went to his house as well & gave some background on his past. no comment was the reply.