OUT: Abbott IN: Turnbull

[nutbean 8,837]

maybe he thought demoting the duke to a common knight would win him favour with the left?

Once a duke always a duke but I have found that once a knight just about does me in.

[Bitter but optimistic 21,245]

Arise Sir Phillip Duke of Edinburgh, Knight of Australia!! Oh dear, is this Tony setting himself up for some reciprocal "gong" down the track from Liz? Is there a vacancy for the Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports at the moment?

It is a gross miscarriage of justice that you received no further honors Earl Hood while Phill the Greek adds another one to his extensive list

Some blots on your (how shall I put it delicately) escutcheon appear to have become public!

Perhaps the servants are blabbing?

[P-man 13,168]

Self sabotage honestly seems plausible at this point.

The Libs surely won't allow this lunacy and string of own goals to go on much longer. If he makes it to the end of the year as leader it will be miraculous. I think his time as PM will be soon be coming to an abrupt end, sending comedians everywhere into mourning.

[Grapeviney 8,815]

The Libs surely won't allow this lunacy and string of own goals to go on much longer. If he makes it to the end of the year as leader it will be miraculous. I think his time as PM will be soon be coming to an abrupt end, sending comedians everywhere into mourning.

The question is, who would they bring in to replace him?

The obvious answer for many would be Malcolm Turnbull, but he has very little appeal beyond inner-city Sydney and Melbourne.

Bishop? Maybe.

Given the way Rudd / Gillard / Rudd worked out, it would be a very brave Government that replaces its leader again, no matter how bad things get.

Having said that, it's getting pretty bad for Abbott.. with each day and each new drama it is looking increasingly like he is not up to the job.

As nut asked earlier - where the hell were his advisers on this one?

[nutbean 8,837]

where the hell were his advisers on this one?

I applaud those who get given awards - but in the broad scheme of events it really is "who cares" and yet he has managed to turn it into an issue.

[daisycutter 28,508]

scot abbott is doomed

the sooner he is removed the better for all

[P-man 13,168]

The question is, who would they bring in to replace him?

The obvious answer for many would be Malcolm Turnbull, but he has very little appeal beyond inner-city Sydney and Melbourne.

Bishop? Maybe.

Given the way Rudd / Gillard / Rudd worked out, it would be a very brave Government that replaces its leader again, no matter how bad things get.

Having said that, it's getting pretty bad for Abbott.. with each day and each new drama it is looking increasingly like he is not up to the job.

As nut asked earlier - where the hell were his advisers on this one?

Stuck between a rock and a hard place to a degree. Ideally they don't want to change leaders but they may be left with no choice if they want to avoid annihilation.

The difference in circumstances is that whilst Rudd was on the nose within party ranks he still had a solid core of voters. His approval rating was 60% at one point and his dumping was largely unexpected in the electorate. Abbott has never had popularity nor would it be unexpected anymore, so the long term backlash may not be as great. Gillard still managed to get over the line after their game of knifey spooney, just, so Abbott's successor would still have a fighting chance.

Bishop is my guess. Generally recognised as someone who has done an okay job in her portfolio and from memory has the highest approval of any Minister. Morrison is another possibility as he has clout, but may be seen as cut too much from the same far right cloth. I can't see them returning to Turnbull. He's Seen as someone who appeases the left but as you point out, his popularity isn't as wide ranging as some would suggest. But he remains a contender.

One term governments are incredibly rare, but this mob are doing everything they can to achieve it. It's been great fun to watch, if you can park the reminder that it's the country that's ultimately suffering because of it. The only thing that surprises me is when someone says they are surprised at what a debacle it has been.

Edited January 27, 2015 by P-man

[Earl Hood 5,789]

It is a gross miscarriage of justice that you received no further honors Earl Hood while Phill the Greek adds another one to his extensive list

Some blots on your (how shall I put it delicately) escutcheon appear to have become public!

Perhaps the servants are blabbing?

BBO there are others more deserving than myself of course of higher honours but Phil the Greek well I will let others judge on that.

But yes the family name has been tarnished of late by any number of those popular magazines. Yes I have had a weight problem and have had some work done but I state catagorically I have not had buttock implants lately, nor have I had botox injections.

Let me add that my aids are beyond reproach, Hudson and Critchon are more than admiral and can be trusted to keep their silence on such matters.

[Grapeviney 8,815]

The man who cries himself to sleep at night is no doubt Peter Costello.

Quit the game thinking Labor would be a minimum 2-term Government; had he stayed on he may well have beaten Gillard in 2010. At worst he would have had to wait til 2013.

It must gall him no end that a colleague for whom he had very little regard is now not only PM, but is squandering the opportunity and validating Costello's earlier criticism of him.

Then again, it remains to be seen whether he (Cossie) would have been a good PM. As we've seen in recent years (esp with Gillard), you can be an outstanding senior Minister but fall short at the top rung.

[P-man 13,168]

The man who cries himself to sleep at night is no doubt Peter Costello.

Quit the game thinking Labor would be a minimum 2-term Government; had he stayed on he may well have beaten Gillard in 2010. At worst he would have had to wait til 2013.

It must gall him no end that a colleague for whom he had very little regard is now not only PM, but is squandering the opportunity and validating Costello's earlier criticism of him.

Then again, it remains to be seen whether he (Cossie) would have been a good PM. As we've seen in recent years (esp with Gillard), you can be an outstanding senior Minister but fall short at the top rung.

Yeah I would've backed Costello to win in 2010 if he had stuck around, and I think he may have fared okay. Certainly he would've been miles better than the current peanut. At least Costello had a well thought out position when it came to less government, lower taxes etc.

But he only has himself to blame, just like he only has himself to blame for not having the grapes to challenge little Johnny. He claims he didn't have the numbers, but he'll never know for sure.

Edited January 27, 2015 by P-man

[dee-luded 2,958]

I would think he is setting himself up for a tilt at "Leader of the Opposition". And I have to say he is doing a sterling job thus far.

Or he has had his laugh at us for his childhood teasing, being a POM, & now wants to set up a return to Ye Ol' England. maybe he'd like to be buried in westminster... the abbey sounds almost purfect for him

This has me scratching my head.

Surely Abbott has advisers who would have said to him, Phil the Greek is a top bloke but you are on a hiding to nothing with this one. Politically, why on earth would you put him up for knighthood ? I honestly think he likes to be contrary for the sake of it.

& maybe he just wanted to fire off a lure into the 2015 waters, tho see if he could get a shorten to bite. creating another distraction this early year from the budget & the other fopar's he's made

maybe he'd love to have a divisive argument that would divide peoples thinking according to desires of status or equality. he may even win some peoples minds back this way.... but the governmenrt is trying to make changes the people definately did not sign on for. and they are not happy Jan...

maybe its time for Julie Bishop to have a crack Oh no, another monarchist

[pantaloons 2,018]

For the more politically minded, where does Tony Abbott rank in terms of the worst democratically elected national leaders in world history?

[nutbean 8,837]

& maybe he just wanted to fire off a lure into the 2015 waters, tho see if he could get a shorten to bite. creating another distraction this early year from the budget & the other fopar's he's made

I understand the idea of promoting a non issue to distract and deflect from the main game that you are not faring too well in. But the deflection he picked has made him out to be more of a dofus that he is already is and adds to the litany of dofusism's that is plaguing him.

I had to laugh yesterday when a Lib suggested that most were "playing politics" with their criticism of Tony and his knighthood decision. ahhh bloke... maybe because these are decisions being made by a politician who is paid to play politics.

[Earl Hood 5,789]

For the more politically minded, where does Tony Abbott rank in terms of the worst democratically elected national leaders in world history?

Close second behind President Ford at the minute but give him some more time

[dee-luded 2,958]

I understand the idea of promoting a non issue to distract and deflect from the main game that you are not faring too well in. But the deflection he picked has made him out to be more of a dofus that he is already is and adds to the litany of dofusism's that is plaguing him.

I had to laugh yesterday when a Lib suggested that most were "playing politics" with their criticism of Tony and his knighthood decision. ahhh bloke... maybe because these are decisions being made by a politician who is paid to play politics.

yes true but maybe he didn't intend for so much backlash from around the world... maybe it was only meant to ruffle the alp & greens alone.

again poor judgement from an out of touch person who carries a chip on shoulder most of his time. this is IMO why he is unpopular all his career, but gets elected because he has the balls his peers do not. but they're balls of resentment rather than creativity. they are the balls of decisiveness rather than uniting.

he is a ball of poison for our culture

[dee-luded 2,958]

For the more politically minded, where does Tony Abbott rank in terms of the worst democratically elected national leaders in world history?

elected by protest vote narrowly, rather than via love, respect & admiration. imo says it all

we got not what we wanted, but spite.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

elected by protest vote narrowly, rather than via love, respect & admiration. imo says it all

Says it all doesn't it. How bad was the previous Rudd/Gillard/Rudd Government? Abbott was the most unelectable person on the Liberal's front bench and yet he still won in a landslide. Purely to get rid of the toxic Labor Government. Abbott needs to go for the good of the country so we can get Scott Morison or Julie Bishop in and ensure consecutive adult Governments.

[mauriesy 6,790]

For the more politically minded, where does Tony Abbott rank in terms of the worst democratically elected national leaders in world history?

I think he's still well ahead of Billy McMahon but the gap's closing.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

For the more politically minded, where does Tony Abbott rank in terms of the worst democratically elected national leaders in world history?

He's not even the worst in Australia's short-term history given we just came out of the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd debacle. Prior to that he is the worst in my life time living through Hawke / Keating and Howard. Not sure on the world stage. Suspect he will finish with more achievements than Obama unless you count frivolous Nobel Piece Prizes.

[P-man 13,168]

Says it all doesn't it. How bad was the previous Rudd/Gillard/Rudd Government? Abbott was the most unelectable person on the Liberal's front bench and yet he still won in a landslide. Purely to get rid of the toxic Labor Government. Abbott needs to go for the good of the country so we can get Scott Morison or Julie Bishop in and ensure consecutive adult Governments.

What was so bad and toxic about the previous government? I mean specifically, in which policy areas did you think they failed? Please don't say pink batts..

The internal disorder and leadership spills clearly cost them badly, but unless you believe the codswallop about a budget crisis in a country with one of the lowest debt levels in the world, or the carbon price (which has simply been delayed) being an economic wrecking ball, I can't see how they could be deemed such a disaster.

Putting aside any social reforms, they ultimately steered Australia though a global financial crisis to emerge one of a small handful of countries in the OECD not to experience negative growth. That alone is a fair achievement, isn't it?

As for placing Scott Morrison and "adult government" in the same sentence, I'll assume that's a typo.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

What was so bad and toxic about the previous government? I mean specifically, in which policy areas did you think they failed? Please don't say pink batts..

So you believe the pink batts were a raging success?

I'll give you a few examples but given your support of the pink batts fiasco that cost people their lives I'm guessing you aren't a rational thinker and unlikely to change your opinion based on facts.

There will be no carbon Tax under a Government I lead

pink batts

the "humanitarian" approach to boat people that cost people their lives and saw record numbers of people including children in detention

That "free" money Rudd gave us to stimulate the economy where everyone bought a flat screen tv from china. Now we're in debt

pink batts

The mining tax that raised no income

In the election campaign claiming the Carbon Tax could not be removed

In the election campaign saying the boats could not be stopped

pink batts

Insisting on an NBS with no cost benefit analysis

Craig Thompson and Gillard's unwavering support

Recruitment of Peter Slipper

pink batts

Corruption of the Australian Television network tender

Green loans debacle

Cash for clunkers

pink batts

Live cattle export ban - knee jerk reaction

Citizens council - what happened to all the ideas?

Fuel watch

pink batts

Damaged foreign relations - particularly China which was supposed to be Rudd's strong point

poker machine commitment to Wilkie

pink batts

And that is all I can think of off the top of my head.

[Grapeviney 8,815]

What was so bad and toxic about the previous government? I mean specifically, in which policy areas did you think they failed? Please don't say pink batts..

The internal disorder and leadership spills clearly cost them badly, but unless you believe the codswallop about a budget crisis in a country with one of the lowest debt levels in the world, or the carbon price (which has simply been delayed) being an economic wrecking ball, I can't see how they could be deemed such a disaster.

Putting aside any social reforms, they ultimately steered Australia though a global financial crisis to emerge one of a small handful of countries in the OECD not to experience negative growth. That alone is a fair achievement, isn't it?

I had very high hopes for the Labor Government when they came to office but they were a huge disappointment, if not a complete failure.

They got it wrong on asylum seeker policy, dismantling the harsh but effective Howard regime which ultimately caused many deaths at sea.

They messed up on climate change, putting a carbon price on the backburner after claiming it was the greatest moral threat to our generation. The Greens didn't help by refusing to compromise on an ETS, but Rudd mishandled the politics when Turnbull was Opposition Leader, straddling a fence which wooed Turnbull and the Libs to support a scheme on the one hand while ridiculing them for flip-flopping on the other. It ultimately cost Turnbull his job and brought Abbott into play.

They made a mess of the mining tax, a policy which should have been a rolled gold winner with the electorate but ended up being a farcical policy which collected next to no revenue.

Remember health reform and the federal takeover of hospitals? That fell in a hole from which it never re-appeared.

Yes, they deserve a tick on the GFC, although we would not have been able to withstand the storm as well as we did if the finances weren't in the condition they were thanks to the previous Government (or the resources boom, whichever way you want to call it).

NDIS was also a big winner in my book, although it remains to be seen whether we can afford its proper implementation and expansion nationwide.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

NDIS was also a big winner in my book, although it remains to be seen whether we can afford its proper implementation and expansion nationwide.

NDIS should have been a winner but given they put it ahead of the forward estimates so they didn't have to budget for it I cannot give them any credit.

[P-man 13,168]

...

Okay, so the usual candidates.

Of course the four lives lost is a tragedy, but the issue became disgustingly politicised imo. Tragic as they were, their deaths were quite shamelessly used as political fodder.

I accept that Abbott devotees have a perverse obsession with "stopping the boats" and that topic has been done to death. I will continue to call [censored] on the humanitarian grounds for support. They are plainly fear grounds for the most part. I'll also accept that the arrivals have stopped when there is full disclosure. Whilst we remain in the dark, so do the proclamations of "mission accomplished". It's also worth noting that the Libs conveniently took all the credit for a PNG arrangement that Labor put in place prior to the election.

"No carbon tax" pledge was flogged to death by Alan Jones to his singled celled listeners, when it was largely inconsequential. Gillard couldn't negotiate her model so a transitionary measure was put in place. It was still a price on carbon, with a plan to move to a market based scheme. Now the taxpayers who protested its existence because they were convinced it was the root of all evil are the ones coughing up the billions of dollars to fund climate action, instead of big business who are the ones doing the emitting. Cause that makes a whole heap of sense, said no expert ever.

Blaming them for Peter Slipper's actions barely deserves acknowledgement. Similarly, to be critical of the stimulus package that kept our heads above water, a package that was praised worldwide by leading economists, is equally narrow minded.

For all the bluster over supposedly damaged relations with China, the largest contract ever signed between China and Australia was engineered in the midst of it with the $50 billion ExxonMobil LNG deal in 2009. That's how damaged relations were.

Aside from that a couple of piddly schemes that didn't perform as hoped.

I will agree with Grape on the mining tax which was a total [censored] up by Gillard. She got all the big boys in the room to negotiate, and with their free ride it turned into a wasted venture. The Citizens Council was also a farce and waste of time. Don't know how much it cost. Hopefully not a lot. Questions over the live cattle export ban were legitimate.

But really, when you look at that list, it doesn't match the claims of "omg worst government eva". Let's take a snapshot of the current mob..

We currently face a 6.2% unemployment rate and a budget situation that continues to worsen because of decisions like a $9 billion injection to the RBA that no economist thought was necessary, coupled with half arsed jobs at cobbling together policies with an often total absence of consultation, and then arrogantly trying to force through the Senate what are essentially BAD ideas. Even Howard was able to negotiate his legislation through a hostile Senate .

As for cost benefit analyses, let's talk about the Coalition promise that any project worth more than $100 million would be subject to a cost benefit analysis before it was funded and that the "roads of the 21st century" would be under construction within 12 months. Neither have happened. Add them to the list of broken promises. And what a list it is. Not just lies by technical definition. Flat out, bold faced lies. What's the tally up to now? Is it 9 or 10?

Let's not even get into the Medicare fiasco.

I haven't even scratched the surface of the list of failures (I'd be here all night). Yet somehow, you can justify in your mind that Rudd and Gillard were worse.

Look. It's okay to have regrets about voting for Abbott.

Seriously major regrets.

"What the actual [censored] was I thinking?" type of regrets.

Edited January 28, 2015 by P-man

[Grapeviney 8,815]

It's easy to compile a long list of stuff-ups for any Government, good or bad.

I guess the reverse question is, what is or will be the legacy of the Labor 2007-13 era?

I can't think of one.

Hawke and Keating deregulated the economy, floated the dollar, started cutting tariffs.

Howard reformed the tax system, and, to a lesser extent, workplace relations (first wave was largely embraced, workchoices went too far and was repealed). Gun reform too after Port Arthur.

I just think we've stalled in the last 10 years. It began in Howard's last term and has continued through all Governments since. It's worth noting that the 2 most senior public servants of recent years, Ken Henry and Terry Moran, have both said there is a public policy crisis in Australia, with no appetite for serious reform among the political leadership, and, consequently, the public.

ED: spelling