Around Howe, as soon as we start to increase our forward entries and have 2 big targets.. howe can roam a lot easier and will impact the game more and more.

At the moment, defenders can afford to slink off and block Howes run at the footy, due to our lack of talent up forward, but once they have to man up on Clark and Hogan, Howe will start to impact more and more.

Around Howe, as soon as we start to increase our forward entries and have 2 big targets.. howe can roam a lot easier and will impact the game more and more.

At the moment, defenders can afford to slink off and block Howes run at the footy, due to our lack of talent up forward, but once they have to man up on Clark and Hogan, Howe will start to impact more and more.

There was a lot of blocking going on, a lot illegal. I think Roos will teach Howe the best way to deal with this.

I think Howe is a must keep. He's an X factor player and they can come up big in finals (when we hopefully one day make it). We definitely need to find some genuine mids but X factor players are just as important. I do hope he can become more consistent as he matures a bit like Stevey J did. He started out as very much a forward who could do the mecurial but often went missing, to being a very consistent forward/mid.

There was a lot of blocking going on, a lot illegal. I think Roos will teach Howe the best way to deal with this.

Off the ball blocking is fine, if you don't stick your hands out wide or grab hold.

However, defenders can only do this, when they don't have to worry as much on their direct opponent.

Once we have the 3 talls, and hopefully 2 smalls + howe, he will have a better chance.

What about Tom McDonald as trade bait? His kicking is atrocious at times.

I get the feeling his kicking is terminal in an AFL career sense.

I wouldn't be sad to see him traded - would be very surprised if his value increased beyond next year.

Wasn't he also training with us at the time? *shudder*

Love the Rockliff rumour. Over the years I've done a complete 180 from being annoyed by rumours to loving them.

He trained with us. Prendergast apparently didn't think he was up to it.

He trained with us. Prendergast apparently didn't think he was up to it.

Thank God for Prendergast and all his wisdom then

I'm with Ben Hur on Howe. A keeper. The argument that he is lazy has some validity but we can not afford to lose players as talented as Howe. The excitment he provides for fans should not be dismissed either. He has been a rare bright light.

Just as i argued that Watts has suffered from being at the club in a period of complete chaos the same argument holds for Howe (and others like Blease, Tapscott, Strauss et al). Of course professional players have to work hard etc but it is ridiculous to expect players will be able to play to their potential in an environment that is destabilizing - and that's without factoring a poor leadership culture.

Lets see how he goes under Roos. I would expect we'll see him address his deficiencies and reach his potential. In terms of position i like him as a forward with occasional runs in the center. As someone notes above with Hogan, Dawes and Clark opposition sides will struggle to match up on Howe and he provides a great foil to those big guys. HAs well as being a great mark he is also pretty good when the ball hits the ground. But yes he needs to increase his pressure.

thats all 'right',,, & good binman, & none of us truly want to lose a player who brings us inspiration, but we are in a situation where we need a quick initial turnaround & precious little to give, to achieve it.

otherwise lets go back to the youth build via the national draft & rely on Stone & his specialists for the next 6 years.

Roos has 2 - 3 years ti turn us around properly & sustainably before the handover. now isn't the time to get cheap on him.

Howe is not this, he is a young footballer who has played 50 games. He has an enormous upside and works hard on his game as evidenced by his improved kicking for goal this year.

Howe had a very good first half of the season against all odds (check out the early demonland voting if your memory is a bit rusty), he faded in the 2nd half and that's understandable the way the team played, the turmoil around the club and his inexperience.

With a good coaching and development structure and another year under the belt I expect him to be a more consistent performer and really come of age. There is nothing in his approach that says otherwise to me and as for the culture argument, that needs to be laid at the feet of the senior players at the club not someone barely into his 3rd year.

Your assessment of him is way off the mark.

i'm very aware of what Howe is, & I know he can turn it around, IF he has the desire to do so.

this isn't about Howe at all in my mind but about trading assets to achieve a quick turnaround in this clubs fortunes. & we don't have a lot that will attract the necessary interest to get the turnaround happening.

I would like nothing more than to not be in a position of trading out excitement machines, but its this that is his worth to others where we need more substance.

There was a lot of blocking going on, a lot illegal. I think Roos will teach Howe the best way to deal with this.

And that's the whole point.

Roos wants to help each player be the best they can be. For me, Howe has tremendous upside and it makes sense to have Roos work with such a talent.

And that's the whole point.

Roos wants to help each player be the best they can be. For me, Howe has tremendous upside and it makes sense to have Roos work with such a talent.

Agree, he's not Darren Cuthbertson.

Surely thered be half a dozen in front of Howe before you thought about moving him on.

Howe , for mine, had a bit of a flat year ( wasnt alone ) but has all the makings of something. The right person in his ear and a stable off filed will benefit ( again, hes not alone here )

trade him ? No way

Any substance to the Rockliff rumour?

I agree, it's a very sad fact that many of our draft picks that were relatively high just haven't developed into anything of value. For me I think there's more value in keeping them and trying to make them reach their full potential with us. Is Tapscott contracted? If not I would say he'll get delisted and possibly picked up in the PSD.

Blease definitely stays, he has enough going for him that Roos would want him.

Frankly, to trade these first round draft picks (Bleese, tapscott, Strauss) now for little or no value makes no sense to me when they have be appallingly managed and coached by us. These guys ARE elite athletes, otherwise they would not be first rounders . It is simply not possible to go so early in the draft given the very extensive and sophisticated sports science testing they need to go through to even just be considered.

Given the hand picked and advanced coaching panel we are now assembling under Roos, I'd be very certain that they will create a very big upside with these guys, and get the best out of their natural abilities. I would also throw in Howe ( clearly a great talent but under performing and inconsistent; Colin Sylvia - ditto; Max Gawn - an emerging young talent who will get better with age and great coaching; Fitzy- an out and out star as a school boy, but sadly cruelled by injury and serious illnesses since he was about 18, and now that at the age of 21 is now starting to show his schoolboy form. All these guys will flower under great coaching and great leadership. To trade any of them now would be throwing away a really big upside when their trade value would be mediocre at best.

I would have also put Gysberts, Bennel, and yes, Moton in these categories too. If you look at the trade values of three quarters of the PA list this time last year (if you don't believe me read their supporter sites from August/September last year as I have done) you will find that many of those playing finals footy this year were vilified and written off on those sites; many advocated "trade them - but we won't get very much for them" sound familiar?

I say keep our high picks and show them how to play. We will get far better value out of them that way.

Terlich is a player who was recently roundly criticised by Roos (and a player who Roos is familiar with), but he also has a lot of "perceived" value because of what was generally considered an outstanding season. With Mitch Clisby showing some great potential, I wonder whether Roos might not see Terlich as possible trade bait? I would like to see us keep Terlich, but I get the feeling Roos is not particularly impressed by him.

Nate Jones is not a 'warrior' or a 'good trier.'

He is an elite midfielder and performs at a premium every game, considering there are normally 3 or 4 tags rotating on him, when our other midfielders don't have the fitness, intelligence or skills to block others off him.

When we start winning games, Nathan Jones may yet finish top 3 or 4 in the Brownlow.

He's amazing!

Damn straight.

Any substance to the Rockliff rumour?

Of course there isnt

This whole thread is filled with made up crap, as it is at every time this season

Around Howe, as soon as we start to increase our forward entries and have 2 big targets.. howe can roam a lot easier and will impact the game more and more. At the moment, defenders can afford to slink off and block Howes run at the footy, due to our lack of talent up forward, but once they have to man up on Clark and Hogan, Howe will start to impact more and more.

I think this idea that anybody gets to 'roam a lot easier' with other forward targets there to deflect pressure is pure fantasy. The game down back is now played as limiting space and thus allowing negation first and foremost. Jeremy Howe has been frankly very poor at shaking that negation when deep forward. He's an elite athlete and runner, a poor 'body' player, and ridiculously good mark. He needs space and a brief to run and run and run. Perfect for the MCG. Given that role he'll expose any opponent in the AFL I reckon, but a consistent inside 50 forward he is not, with the the exception of the last quarter if he's got the legs.

People that cry about this all these years later are so full of shite, everyone was on the Jurrah bandwagon when we took him. He was a fantastic get for the club at the time and progressed a lot quicker than most in his first 3 years at the club.

Jurrah had a far higher ceiling than Rockliff. Rookie picks are for speculative players.

Sorry Torpedo I am on record here and with other players I always take the meat and potatoes player over the Flash player. Jurrah was always a risk and it was always going to be a matter of time. The divide of players coming from the background Jurrah did is huge. I just wish Liam well in the rest of his life and hope the club learns from it.

Terlich is a player who was recently roundly criticised by Roos (and a player who Roos is familiar with), but he also has a lot of "perceived" value because of what was generally considered an outstanding season. With Mitch Clisby showing some great potential, I wonder whether Roos might not see Terlich as possible trade bait? I would like to see us keep Terlich, but I get the feeling Roos is not particularly impressed by him.

I don't get that feeling at all, I think Roos made an observation about how he was positioning himself and how opponents took advantage. It will be a real plus for Terlich if can learn from the new coach and make himself a better player.

I don't get that feeling at all, I think Roos made an observation about how he was positioning himself and how opponents took advantage. It will be a real plus for Terlich if can learn from the new coach and make himself a better player.

I hope you're right, but that was the feeling I got from Roo's comments on the TV (can't recall whether it was OTC or during the televised coverage of a game).

Any substance to the Rockliff rumour?

"my mates sisters best friend is the girlfriend"

What more do you want?

I hope you're right, but that was the feeling I got from Roo's comments on the TV (can't recall whether it was OTC or during the televised coverage of a game).

Yeah, he criticised Terlich's game OTC, against the Swans in particular, where first gamer Brandon Jack kicked four on him. I agree/agreed with Roos' comments wholeheartedly, but was interested to note that Terlich received two votes for that game.

Yeah, he criticised Terlich's game OTC, against the Swans in particular, where first gamer Brandon Jack kicked four on him. I agree/agreed with Roos' comments wholeheartedly, but was interested to note that Terlich received two votes for that game.

Personally I'm hoping Roos sees Terlich's hardness and agility in traffic as aspects of his game which will see him play in the middle. I said it during the season and I'll say it again, I think Terlich could become a pretty solid midfielder, playing a role.

This is not really a source but a mate of mine did see nick dal santo at ammi park yesterday coming from Melbourne doors with a smile on his face. Was pretty surprised to hear thag