Hope - I got it back

[dee-luded 2,959]

hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Oh I never thought of it that way,, how stupid of me.

[rjay 24,929]

Rather than through the hate filled gaze that you do?

I think that is a really unfair comment 'sat', 'Young Dee' has been one of the more positive posters on here but it's really hard to stay that way looking at the performances on ground.

I mean even you said you couldn't sit out the Freo game and left at half time. I think a lot of us do watch the games through but it's like our worst football nightmare. Surely this can't be happening...but it is.

[LegsLeoncelli 162]

Rather than through the hate filled gaze that you do?

What a poor post.

To suggest that YD's view is "hate filled" is such a misrepresentation of the content of his posts.

Of the people who have moved towards an anti-Neeld stance, YD is still one of the more positive folks around here.

[Young Dee 1,303]

Rather than through the hate filled gaze that you do?

I think you are just proving my point for I clearly don't look at our situation with a 'hate filled gaze'.

I am actually quite cool headed - although I don't think that we are yet on the right track I think that the club has the chance to reform itself under PJ. I support their decision in not sacking Neeld (yet) - wait for seasons end where we have time to restructure the club. I am logical and don't see how since Neeld has come in our team has improved - actually it is worse!

You can't really suggest that Neeld is implementing a highly defensive gameplan when we lose the possession counts by large amounts and yet also seem to lose the tackle count. I just don't think we will see improvement until we get an experienced coach who can create our own gameplan based on our abilities (like Geelong and Collingwood did). I go to the footy to watch an exciting freeflowing game not to see one chain of possessions in an entire match.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Young Dee

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

I think you are just proving my point for I clearly don't look at our situation with a 'hate filled gaze'.

I am actually quite cool headed - although I don't think that we are yet on the right track I think that the club has the chance to reform itself under PJ. I support their decision in not sacking Neeld (yet) - wait for seasons end where we have time to restructure the club. I am logical and don't see how since Neeld has come in our team has improved - actually it is worse!

Quite simple Young Dee, attack me and I will attack you back, I don't care how positive you are, either post on the topic or leave the comments about other posters out, over it, this will be my modus operandi from now on, if you want to comment properly on what I post I will debate, if not you will get what you got

[dee-luded 2,959]

You are delusional if u think Neeld is on the right track

your a poet, & you didn't even know it.

so, after it comes out that Todd Viney recruited the players, including the older more mature players, whom are so unpopular amongst many of the supporters who blame Neeld...

& then the same throng say ythe players aren't playing for the coach yet we see different, the players having a Red Hot Go,,, but at the moment just aren't good enough because they're are so many inexperienced players who are learning, & the older players from our list which learnt to turn the ball over on a whim....

as I remember it Moloney was always being plasrered around here for his shocking disposal & turnovers. not to mention morton, petterd, bennell was a full on reciever as was morton...

Rivers was a solid floating 3rd tall, who wasn't very attacking, & lacked penetrating disposal abilities, but would not have been in our future if we are to fix this mess built over the last 10 years...

so I wonder, who exactly you would have back on our list,, of the ones removed by Todd Viney, Neeld, & the rest of the footy department ???

[dee-luded 2,959]

There is hope but so far not much improvement. I see that some of the fellas CAN play but Neeld isn't probably the bloke to bring them where they need to be.

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

Lol, sorry I'll fix that, thanks.

Good to see some posters share my optimism. I know we're a long way off, but I honestly think it's not as far as the score-lines would indicate.

Choke, a lot of posters are optimistic, I can see why you thought you would be flamed, don't worry it is only Larry, Mo and Curly playing up on this topic

[Young Dee 1,303]

Quite simple Young Dee, attack me and I will attack you back, I don't care how positive you are, either post on the topic or leave the comments about other posters out, over it, this will be my modus operandi from now on, if you want to comment properly on what I post I will debate, if not you will get what you got

Haahaaa

If I remember correctly I was only responding to your post: you were the one attacking other posters

Satyriconhome, on 11 Jun 2013 - 9:52, said:

"You would not get flamed from me, only the posters on here who can't look at things logically"

Edited June 11, 2013 by Young Dee

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

I think you are just proving my point for I clearly don't look at our situation with a 'hate filled gaze'.

I am actually quite cool headed - although I don't think that we are yet on the right track I think that the club has the chance to reform itself under PJ. I support their decision in not sacking Neeld (yet) - wait for seasons end where we have time to restructure the club. I am logical and don't see how since Neeld has come in our team has improved - actually it is worse!

You can't really suggest that Neeld is implementing a highly defensive gameplan when we lose the possession counts by large amounts and yet also seem to lose the tackle count. I just don't think we will see improvement until we get an experienced coach who can create our own gameplan based on our abilities (like Geelong and Collingwood did). I go to the footy to watch an exciting freeflowing game not to see one chain of possessions in an entire match.

Yes right, a new Coach will fix everything.....of course, that's what we did 2 years ago and 3 years before that.........

nice to see you are debating now, although it took a bit of editing...

Since Neeld arrived he has changed everything, so therefore to implement everything again to a very high standard is going to take time, this is what Neeld has been saying for the last 18 months, yes perhaps he shouldn't have said 'hardest team to play against' straight off, but that is what he is driving for.

He is not happy with some of the senior players, trawl through the topics in the last 2 years on this board, and you will find most posters aren't/weren't either, but Neeld has resisted the temptation to have a team where 17 or 18 are under 50 games, in the hope that we could snag a few wins, that is obviously not working, methinks we may see that now

[Satyriconhome 10,878]

Haahaaa

If I remember correctly I was only responding to your post: you were the one attacking other posters

Satyriconhome, on 11 Jun 2013 - 9:52, said:

"You would not get flamed from me, only the posters on here who can't look at things logically"

That is not an attack, that is a statement of fact, don't you read the topics or posts?.....

[tonatopia 278]

Yes, I am also confidnt that we are on the right track.

Neelds defensive structures allowed us to lose by 80 odd points. I havnt felt this good in years.

FMD.

[Young Dee 1,303]

That is not an attack, that is a statement of fact, don't you read the topics or posts?.....

Yes I read yours and I am begining to think you are right!

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think you are just proving my point for I clearly don't look at our situation with a 'hate filled gaze'.

I am actually quite cool headed - although I don't think that we are yet on the right track I think that the club has the chance to reform itself under PJ. I support their decision in not sacking Neeld (yet) - wait for seasons end where we have time to restructure the club.

I am logical and don't see how since Neeld has come in our team has improved - actually it is worse!

You can't really suggest that Neeld is implementing a highly defensive gameplan when we lose the possession counts by large amounts and yet also seem to lose the tackle count. I just don't think we will see improvement until we get an experienced coach who can create our own gameplan based on our abilities (like Geelong and Collingwood did). I go to the footy to watch an exciting freeflowing game not to see one chain of possessions in an entire match.

its not worse, its actually healthier... its just poorer, re our perception of where we ideally wanted to be on the ladder...

but in essence we are building a healthy club where our kids will & are starting to finally develop themselves, & Push themselves harder, without those reinforcing poor training standards, & efforts,,, especially when we don't have the ball...

we had Too many down hill skiers before,, & that attitude ruled this club for way too long,10 years or more...

... players pulling out of marking contests, pulling out of contested ball contests, players putting in short steps when required to chase, players unwilling to put the head over the pill to win a 50/50 ball,,, players refusing to go into time trials,

& some on here want to blame the Coach, for pulling the rotten teeth Out, with a pair of pliers???

... those people want to sew the Tail back on,,, to whence it once Ruled the Dog.

.

[Demon trucker 1,800]

No point firing neeld this year, even bailey needed until his their season until the team was competitive, if the team is as scrap as they are. After round 6 next year. Then his time is up

[chookrat 4,250]

Good post Choke.

The reality is that we at a similar development stage to GWS and are performing to this level. The things that will see us improve:

1. Getting our best team on the park (add Grimes, Clark, Frawley, Viney, Byrnes) and take out Mckenzie, Fitzy, Rodan, Dunn and Tapscott.

2. Putting another season or two into young/inexperienced players - Evans, Viney, Toumpas, Gawn, Strauss, M jones and Terlich.

3. Consolidating fringe/development players to make room for a couple of A grade mids and new dratt picks - decide on Magner/Couch, Sellar/Pedo/Davis/Gillies, Dunn/Strauss/Tynan, Nicholson/Jetta/Bail, Spencer/Fitzy and Rodan

4. Bring in a couple of A grade mids and development players

5. Most importantly, get the team playig the style we want to play so that as the majority of our team that are on the park reach AFL standar, the game plan is already instilled into the players.

This year we will be lucky to win 3-4 games and will be competing with GWS for the spoon, however not doing things like putting Davey behind the ball (as we did under Bailey, which teams realised and tagged him out of the game) is necessary to getting all 18 fielded players to play a role and be accountable.

We could play to the players strengths and compensate for the weaknesses and might win a few extra games and end up with a better percentage, but if we do this will only ever be an average football team.

Or we could feel some pain now and develop a side that is accountable and can stand up to finals footy.

Long term no one will care if we were rubbish from 2006 - 2014/15 if we can become a top 4 side and regular finals feature for the next decade or more.

[What 18,810]

No point firing neeld this year, even bailey needed until his their season until the team was competitive, if the team is as scrap as they are. After round 6 next year. Then his time is up

Absolutely zero chance he is our coach in 2014.

Zero.

[P-man 13,366]

I am glad you got your hope back. I cannot agree with your view of the match as it was largely another deplorable effort to my eyes, which only served to underline just how far this team has regressed. But if a supporter can find genuine hope, whatever the source or reasoning, that can only be a good thing. That probably comes across as a bit condescending which is not my intention.

On an individual level, I think Jimmy T took another step forward, and I am now convinced that Matt Jones will be a long term player. Those two things gave me hope. By and large though, hope isn't in large supply. At least not until PJ steps in with broom and we can finally put this nightmare period in our history behind us.

[Weedster 174]

We are delivering to an unacceptable level. It is now routine to lose by 10 goals or more.

A much needed break from everything, time to take a breath before 2 crunch games - Saints & Doggies - the last opportunity perhaps, because more of the same cannot possibly be accepted.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

I am glad you got your hope back. I cannot agree with your view of the match as it was largely another deplorable effort to my eyes, which only served to underline just how far this team has regressed. But if a supporter can find genuine hope, whatever the source or reasoning, that can only be a good thing. That probably comes across as a bit condescending which is not my intention.

On an individual level, I think Jimmy T took another step forward, and I am now convinced that Matt Jones will be a long term player. Those two things gave me hope. By and large though, hope isn't in large supply. At least not until PJ steps in with broom and we can finally put this nightmare period in our history behind us.

Not taken as condescending at all, we all need to find it somewhere if we can.

I agree on Toumpas and Jones. I can't help thinking how much better they'd be right now with a better midfield to learn from. Look at Tom Mitchell from Sydney. He's played 2 games but has a killer midfield around him. It makes him look fantastic and gives him huge amounts of confidence. Toumpas and Jones, as good as they are, start behind the rest of the pack because of our lack of established midfielders to model themselves on.

[Adam The God 30,261]

I know I'm going to cop a flame for this, but I want to say I actually feel better after watching the Collingwood game than I did at the start of the year after the Port one.

I feel really hopeful and I reckon we're on the right track, as horrible as that may seem right now.

What I saw in that first quarter was nothing short of remarkable. Sylvia laid 5 tackles. The boys played with real intensity. If not for 3 (I think it was 3?) posts, we would have been way in front. I normally don't subscribe to the "what-if" scenarios of hindsight, but in this case, those 3 goals would have made a huge difference. Collingwood looked demoralised, and would have been further had those been on the board.

But the real hope IMHO came in the press conference. Neeld said something that really resonated with me, it was something like "we could have stuck Howe and Trenners on half back and limited the score, but then they wouldn't learn anything." He makes an interesting point. Does it really matter if we loose by 50 points or 90 points? It's a loss either way. The important thing is sticking with the structures and making sure the players actually learn something in the course of the game.

I'm also encouraged a bit when I look at our injury list. We played 3 quarters of the game without Dawes, and we didn't have Clark, Frawley and Grimes. Garland did a great job on Cloke, but his job would have been much easier had Frawley been there, plus Grimes in the centre to help prevent the ball coming back there as often. Clark and Dawes ARE the forward structure. The best teams can cope with the loss of 4 of their best players, but we are in the unfortunate position that we can only replace them with VFL standard players or developing ones. We have no depth, but I'm convinced that our best 22 is much much better than anything we've seen this year.

So the players play as if Clark and Dawes are there, and when they get back, the team will be used to the structure. I'll deal with the losses being larger in the meantime if the result is a team that learns their structure quickly and are ready for when those players slot right back in.

/flameshield on.

edit - spelling

The problem is, albeit having two key defenders down, we had absolutely no structures defensive or offensive.

There's no doubt once we get some talent and experience into our midfield the rest of the ground is looking very promising. It's structures and game plans we lack. Really looking forward to seeing what an experienced coach can do with our list.

Edited June 11, 2013 by AdamFarr

[Adam The God 30,261]

No point firing neeld this year, even bailey needed until his their season until the team was competitive, if the team is as scrap as they are. After round 6 next year. Then his time is up

Round Six? Is that just an arbitrary number you've pulled out AD? As HH says, there's no way he'll be coach in 2014. He'll be gone before the end of the season.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

Interesting. I went to a different game where the players weren't trying.

[Guest]

As I have mentioned before, there's nothing like a sing along to defuse the tension....
And a 1 and a 2 and a...

Edited June 11, 2013 by Guest

[Demon trucker 1,800]

No point firing neeld this year, even bailey needed until his their season until the team was competitive, if the team is as scrap as they are. After round 6 next year. Then his time is up