Young talent: do NOT trade pick #2

[rpfc 27,646]

...and suddenly our list is looking alright, in a better position than the Doggies and the Saints. Last week we had the worst list in living memory, go figure. Funny thing about the media is they don't have any memory.

Yes, a few horrendous losses (they are coming) and we will back to being hopeless with no light at the end of the tunnel. Oh, and they will marry that with a meme about not deserving any assistance for being terrible at picking teenagers.

We are headed for yet another 3 or 4 win season after going 3, 4, 8.5, 8.5, and 4 in the five years previous to that.

If we don't trigger the AFL's secret formula for draft assistance then there is no formula, there is only subterfuge and the desire to appease their own perception.

[rjay 24,053]

Yes, a few horrendous losses (they are coming) and we will back to being hopeless with no light at the end of the tunnel. Oh, and they will marry that with a meme about not deserving any assistance for being terrible at picking teenagers.

We are headed for yet another 3 or 4 win season after going 3, 4, 8.5, 8.5, and 4 in the five years previous to that.

If we don't trigger the AFL's secret formula for draft assistance then there is no formula, there is only subterfuge and the desire to appease their own perception.

Correct 'rp', interesting times ahead.

I hope the commission come out with their decision before the end of the season and I have a feeling they will to avoid any further discussion of tanking.

With the last game against the Doggies if we lose and get a pp it won't look good, if we win and get a pp there will be the cry of why and if we win and don't get a pp it will look like the commission caved in to public opinion. It's a no win situation leaving it until the end of the season.

[rpfc 27,646]

Correct 'rp', interesting times ahead.

I hope the commission come out with their decision before the end of the season and I have a feeling they will to avoid any further discussion of tanking.

With the last game against the Doggies if we lose and get a pp it won't look good, if we win and get a pp there will be the cry of why and if we win and don't get a pp it will look like the commission caved in to public opinion. It's a no win situation leaving it until the end of the season.

They can't do that. They should base the decision on the evidence of this season in its entirety and previous years. And we will have had four years of less than 4 wins in the past six years.

They should have their formula and have some backbone and follow their mandate to even the league up if there are teams that require help. The Bullies will need assistance soon, as will the Saints.

I am not going to have my team worse off because of the perception of the day.

They should tell the media September 1 that we will receive some draft assistance (does not have to be a PP) and on September 2 they should rattle their keys in front of the media to distract them.

[mjt 640]

They can't do that. They should base the decision on the evidence of this season in its entirety and previous years. And we will have had four years of less than 4 wins in the past six years.

They should have their formula and have some backbone and follow their mandate to even the league up if there are teams that require help. The Bullies will need assistance soon, as will the Saints.

I am not going to have my team worse off because of the perception of the day.

They should tell the media September 1 that we will receive some draft assistance (does not have to be a PP) and on September 2 they should rattle their keys in front of the media to distract them.

End of first round would be ok, look what Dawes and Wellingham bought Collingwood last season , we could trade pick 19 for a decent player.

[old dee 22,998]

August is supposed to be the month when the Bombers result comes out.

If that goes the way a lot on here think it will go any PP for the Dees will be lost in the S--- fight that will be on about Essendon.

I fully expect that for a change the Dees will be of like news value in August.

[rpfc 27,646]

End of first round would be ok, look what Dawes and Wellingham bought Collingwood last season , we could trade pick 19 for a decent player.

Let's not sell ourselves short here.

There really should be a sliding scale of help to teams - my major issue with the PP throughout its short history was the qualification was 1 bad season, then it became 2 bad seasons with a end-of-1st-round-PP after one bad season. There should be a wait of 2 or 3 years of terrible seasons and then give picks in the second round, then first round, and then after an extended period of being terrible give a pre-draft PP that teams have to trade out.

I want mid-1st round and end of 1st round.

Let's see whether that flies.

That's after we ask for Pick 1 of course...

[old dee 22,998]

Let's not sell ourselves short here.

There really should be a sliding scale of help to teams - my major issue with the PP throughout its short history was the qualification was 1 bad season, then it became 2 bad seasons with a end-of-1st-round-PP after one bad season. There should be a wait of 2 or 3 years of terrible seasons and then give picks in the second round, then first round, and then after an extended period of being terrible give a pre-draft PP that teams have to trade out.

I want mid-1st round and end of 1st round.

Let's see whether that flies.

That's after we ask for Pick 1 of course...

You don't want much rpfc should a cake walk

[rjay 24,053]

They can't do that. They should base the decision on the evidence of this season in its entirety and previous years. And we will have had four years of less than 4 wins in the past six years.

They should have their formula and have some backbone and follow their mandate to even the league up if there are teams that require help. The Bullies will need assistance soon, as will the Saints.

I am not going to have my team worse off because of the perception of the day.

They should tell the media September 1 that we will receive some draft assistance (does not have to be a PP) and on September 2 they should rattle their keys in front of the media to distract them.

You're probably right there but I get the impression that is what may happen particularly as they said they would be back to Jackson with an answer in the not too distant future. I know that may be only the financial deal but it could also be the complete package.

Totally agree on the perception thing, there is no reason for us to be worse off at all.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

What have priority picks done for us other than bring extra pressure, scrutiny, disgrace, humiliation, disappointment and embarrassment. All they serve to do is consolidate out status as a loser club

I think and hope we end up on 6 wins, last year that would have been 13th and far away from the stench of the evil picks

[rpfc 27,646]

What have priority picks done for us other than bring extra pressure, scrutiny, disgrace, humiliation, disappointment and embarrassment. All they serve to do is consolidate out status as a loser club

I think and hope we end up on 6 wins, last year that would have been 13th and far away from the stench of the evil picks

6 wins? Who cares about an extra 2 wins?

We are not talking about our own stubborn pride. We have won 35 games since that final against Freo in 06.

The coming loss to the Swans will be the 110th since that final.

The competition needs to even up and we require draft assistance.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

6 wins? Who cares about an extra 2 wins?

We are not talking about our own stubborn pride. We have won 35 games since that final against Freo in 06.

The coming loss to the Swans will be the 110th since that final.

The competition needs to even up and we require draft assistance.

I don't care

at this point in season 2008 we were having the same debate, and I was strongly in favour of bottoming out for picks, saying exactly what you are saying now. The counter argument was that fostering a so-called 'loser's mentality' would be more harmful in the long run than a priority pick is worth. I think it is blatently clear that the 5 years that followed have been a complete disaster and I believe one of the major reasons is because we set a cultural tone of failure around that time that echoed for a long time. It is also clear just in the last 2 weeks that confidence + success breeds more success and we need to start building up as much momentum as we possibly can. Not to mention we are in the market to try to be an attractive proposition for a quality coach and quality traded players, we will not be doing ourselves any favours by ending up on 4 wins from here.

[Ted Lasso 17,135]

culture over picks, we need to be desperate to win every game from this point on.

[rpfc 27,646]

I don't care

at this point in season 2008 we were having the same debate, and I was strongly in favour of bottoming out for picks, saying exactly what you are saying now. The counter argument was that fostering a so-called 'loser's mentality' would be more harmful in the long run than a priority pick is worth. I think it is blatently clear that the 5 years that followed have been a complete disaster and I believe one of the major reasons is because we set a cultural tone of failure around that time that echoed for a long time. It is also clear just in the last 2 weeks that confidence + success breeds more success and we need to start building up as much momentum as we possibly can. Not to mention we are in the market to try to be an attractive proposition for a quality coach and quality traded players, we will not be doing ourselves any favours by ending up on 4 wins from here.

Who says I want to bottom out?

We are bottom. we have lost 109 games in the last 6 years - there is not much further down to go.

We need a leg up to even up the competition.

I cannot believe this is even an argument - we are terrible. Terrible teams get draft assistance in our socialised league.

There is no more public threshold that we have to stay under - I would like to win a few more games but they would be irrelevant to how bad we are and how much we need help.

Give us a couple of first round picks to trade for some mids.

That's all I ask.

[Scipio 5,868]

culture over picks, we need to be desperate to win every game from this point on.

I don't think there'll be any doubt over desire to win after the whole tanking saga and the attitudes of the players after losing for so long - they must all be desperate to win by now, they just aren't good enough to do it yet.

[old dee 22,998]

I don't care

at this point in season 2008 we were having the same debate, and I was strongly in favour of bottoming out for picks, saying exactly what you are saying now. The counter argument was that fostering a so-called 'loser's mentality' would be more harmful in the long run than a priority pick is worth. I think it is blatently clear that the 5 years that followed have been a complete disaster and I believe one of the major reasons is because we set a cultural tone of failure around that time that echoed for a long time. It is also clear just in the last 2 weeks that confidence + success breeds more success and we need to start building up as much momentum as we possibly can. Not to mention we are in the market to try to be an attractive proposition for a quality coach and quality traded players, we will not be doing ourselves any favours by ending up on 4 wins from here.

Actually C & B I think we will struggle to get more than four wins in total.

However I agree with you. This attitude of wanting extra picks has landed us exactly where we are at present.

There is nothing I would like more than to win six games , perform well in the others and be not due any extra picks.

We have got to get over this "we are so badly off we need help attitude"

[Pates 9,537]

Screw the PP, you reap what you sow and we've made some god awful decisions. We have some very good talent in the wings with Toumpas and Viney in the midfield, we have Hogan on our way with another high pick along side him. We also have Grimes to come into the midfield and Trengove can (and I think will) improve to become a very good player. People are seriously worried about us winning knocking us out of contention for the pick? Well maybe we should tank then, because that worked out so well last time.

Lets focus on us in the here and now, lets try to win and get some good vibes going through the club. I will go on record right in saying I don't want and I don't think we deserve a PP.

[ThreeOneSix 953]

I have been a big advocate for tanking in the past, it's a wonderful thing.

But those days are over now, we have more talent on our list than people realize.

We'll be right, add a top pick this year, Hogan and our outs and we'll be back next year.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,636]

I don't care

at this point in season 2008 we were having the same debate, and I was strongly in favour of bottoming out for picks, saying exactly what you are saying now. The counter argument was that fostering a so-called 'loser's mentality' would be more harmful in the long run than a priority pick is worth. I think it is blatently clear that the 5 years that followed have been a complete disaster and I believe one of the major reasons is because we set a cultural tone of failure around that time that echoed for a long time. It is also clear just in the last 2 weeks that confidence + success breeds more success and we need to start building up as much momentum as we possibly can. Not to mention we are in the market to try to be an attractive proposition for a quality coach and quality traded players, we will not be doing ourselves any favours by ending up on 4 wins from here.

culture over picks, we need to be desperate to win every game from this point on.

You guys miss the point - there is a difference between tanking for a PP and getting one because we are just rubbish.

[DeeMfc 621]

I'm in the 'we should take the pp if its deemed needed by the afl' boat.

Stuff what anyone else thinks.

Having said that I think the smarter option would be for the afl to 'muddy the waters' a little by assisting us to land a marquee mid whether it be by a fixed term slight salary cap increase?? Or another alternative option. At least it avoids the stigma that the pp. has attached to it??

Most external parties agree we have had a fair chop at the early draft and what we need is mid career talent and leadership.

Win/win???

Edit- iPhone finger

Edited July 2, 2013 by DeeMfc

[rpfc 27,646]

You guys miss the point - there is a difference between tanking for a PP and getting one because we are just rubbish.

Yes, no-one deserves a PP or draft assistance.

We need it because we have picked poorly.

The Bullldogs will need itsoon because they don't have a forward line.

The Saints will get it in a couple years because they topped up chaisng a flag and are seeing their stars wither and fade away.

Draft assistance should be given because we have been terrible for years and the League requires us to get better quicker than we would by natural attrition.

Edited July 2, 2013 by rpfc