One bloke that has fairly been quite NAB cup series is Jack Grimes. Grimes needs to take his game to a new level this year if we are to move forward up the ladder. One thing about grimes is that he can win alot of the footy as we first saw in his first couple of years. but like Trengove i thought he lost that flair last year due to the defensive mindsight of the game plan. Still has a reasonable year last year but i felt it wasn't as damaging as i have seen him before.

Thoughts and expectations on Grimes for 2013??

You could swap Grimes' name for most of our players in that paragraph and it'd still make sense... (aside from the "reasonable last year" bit probably)

Very wait and see on Grimes. Was one of our best last year but was very workmanlike in his endeavour, not showing the class that he had as a rebounding defender.

I would expect him to improve as the game plan improves because he will be that dedicated to implementing it. I don't think it's necessary to speculate on him too much at this stage, and I think he's the best possible captain the MFC could've wished for.

He has to keep his feet more. Many people regard Frank as "elite"

I haven't seen it yet. Last Saturday was very quiet.

I'm hoping he can get through at least one game this year without kicking it out on the full.

One of the biggest 'what ifs' in our 2013 season will be whether or not Grimes has the capability of supporting Jones in the middle.

If he can, things may not all be lost in there. If he can't, well ...

An injury free year would let him get the momentum he needs to develop into the A grader we think we can see.

He will be top 5 in the Bluey, wont shirk it, is a solid citizen and will only improve.

He is two years behind being elite due to injuries but he will catch up.

His 2012 in the middle was good in an awful side.

He is now a midfielder for the foreseeable future because we have a dearth of options in there and HBF is the easiest place to play and we would be better served letting Dunn save his career, and Watts start his career, there.

If he has a better 2013 than 2012 he will be pushing Jones and that won't be great - it will be a fantasti-gasm.

I could name 15 players that need to lift before I get to Grimes.

As a midfielder he makes a good backman.

I like Grimes, but I don't rate him highly as a mid. I watched him at Casey last week and he coughs it up too easily under pressure. He's poor on his left foot under pressure, not creative with his hands, and doesn't work himself into good positions. He'll be a serviceable mid, but he looks far more comfortable when the play is unfolding ahead of him. He seems to read the play far better down back. He's a straight ahead player, but lacks the nuances and craft of the best smart mids.

I think we've got other players to show some concern about before we start hitting on Grimes.

As a midfielder he makes a good backman.

I like Grimes, but I don't rate him highly as a mid. I watched him at Casey last week and he coughs it up too easily under pressure. He's poor on his left foot under pressure, not creative with his hands, and doesn't work himself into good positions. He'll be a serviceable mid, but he looks far more comfortable when the play is unfolding ahead of him. He seems to read the play far better down back. He's a straight ahead player, but lacks the nuances and craft of the best smart mids.

Someone - maybe AoB - described the best mids as "360 degree" - that their grip of the game and ability to pursue options and work space happens all around them. You can see that with Pendlebury and Mitchell. Grimes not so much I guess.

As a midfielder he makes a good backman.

I like Grimes, but I don't rate him highly as a mid. I watched him at Casey last week and he coughs it up too easily under pressure. He's poor on his left foot under pressure, not creative with his hands, and doesn't work himself into good positions. He'll be a serviceable mid, but he looks far more comfortable when the play is unfolding ahead of him. He seems to read the play far better down back. He's a straight ahead player, but lacks the nuances and craft of the best smart mids.

Wow, BH judging a guy on a practice game in 35 deg heat and masses of interchanges, you get better and better don't you, been reading all the negative posts on the board today.....gee we have a lot of posters really looking forward to the season and an MFC failure so they will feel vindicated for their pessimism, that's really good support

I think everything hinges on Grimes and Trengove stepping up if we are to improve as a team, they have been good but now have to make the footy world sit up and take notice, ala Dustin Martin and Trent cotchin.

I consider Jack grimes to already be a strong B+ player if not A and have alot of improvement ahead of him if he stays injury free, the list has alot bigger concerns than grimes.

There is a large amount of good players i.e. Dane Swan, Buddy just to name acouple, who's input has been well down during the NAB cup. Grimes is most likely taking it a bit easier looking to get some match fitness but ease himself into the season. I think the same could be said about Sylvia. I think any judgement should be held until we actually get into the real season.

Wow, BH judging a guy on a practice game in 35 deg heat and masses of interchanges, you get better and better don't you, been reading all the negative posts on the board today.....gee we have a lot of posters really looking forward to the season and an MFC failure so they will feel vindicated for their pessimism, that's really good support

My views were hardly formed by one practice match. They've been formed by watching him last year, training, etc. And yes, I know his rating from Champion Data. It just shows how stats don't tell the whole story. Btw, I did say he'd be a "serviceable" mid. Or did you miss that part ? Are you one of those people that only read what you want to see ?

And don't take it personally pal, it's just an opinion. It's not pessimism, it's an opinion. I love Dean Kent, Jack Viney, Hogan and some others. It's not optimism, just an opinion. Funny how those opinions are OK, just not some others. Are you from the left ? That's how they think too.

I'd hate to watch footy like you. I'd feel cheated by the sport. How could one watch so much footy over the years, but not be in a position to form a considered opinion ? You poor bastard.

Captain sideways.

I'm not a fan to be honest.

I used to like his saving marks in defense, I love his courage.

But his non-damaging sideways kicks frustrate the hell out of me. And he butchers it when he's running forward.

I long for the day we have a captain that has all the skills and attributes to turn a game, not just a respected workhorse.

Grimes kicks the ball out on the full because he has to kick around and over on-coming opponents when he does not have the pace to run around them.

And the opposition knows this, so they close up on Grimes quick, rather than back off like they would to a faster player.

Captain sideways.

I'm not a fan to be honest.

I used to like his saving marks in defense, I love his courage.

But his non-damaging sideways kicks frustrate the hell out of me. And he butchers it when he's running forward.

I long for the day we have a captain that has all the skills and attributes to turn a game, not just a respected workhorse.

Gotta say it's one of my bugbears with this team. Our back line often go sideways to a safe option, and usually do it nice and slowly. When those options dry up against the top sides, we have a melt down and kick it down the line to a 1 against 3 or 4.

That and out pissweak tackling technique for the last few years.

Gotta say it's one of my bugbears with this team. Our back line often go sideways to a safe option, and usually do it nice and slowly. When those options dry up against the top sides, we have a melt down and kick it down the line to a 1 against 3 or 4.

That and out pissweak tackling technique for the last few years.

now i am really depressed....!!!!

I can see it so well...

As a midfielder he makes a good backman.

I like Grimes, but I don't rate him highly as a mid. I watched him at Casey last week and he coughs it up too easily under pressure. He's poor on his left foot under pressure, not creative with his hands, and doesn't work himself into good positions. He'll be a serviceable mid, but he looks far more comfortable when the play is unfolding ahead of him. He seems to read the play far better down back. He's a straight ahead player, but lacks the nuances and craft of the best smart mids.

You're spot on BH. Being a straight ahead player isn't a knock on him either. When we need courage he'll go straight at the ball but in the midfield he looks confused about when to attack, when to stand off, how to get the ball out backwards and still move it forwards.

If I was the coach I'd keep him on a back flank and develop a very good defense with Frawley/Garland/McDonald etc we know the names around the skipper.

I know that means our midfield is even lighter on for depth and talent but I think thats the way it should be. Or maybe for this year play him 50/50 as a guy who rotates as the 7th defender when someone is off for a rest and as a midfielder.

My views were hardly formed by one practice match. They've been formed by watching him last year, training, etc. And yes, I know his rating from Champion Data. It just shows how stats don't tell the whole story. Btw, I did say he'd be a "serviceable" mid. Or did you miss that part ? Are you one of those people that only read what you want to see ?

And don't take it personally pal, it's just an opinion. It's not pessimism, it's an opinion. I love Dean Kent, Jack Viney, Hogan and some others. It's not optimism, just an opinion. Funny how those opinions are OK, just not some others. Are you from the left ? That's how they think too.

I'd hate to watch footy like you. I'd feel cheated by the sport. How could one watch so much footy over the years, but not be in a position to form a considered opinion ? You poor bastard.

No BH I read every word you write, gives me the full picture I can then pick holes in......a considered opinion that would nearly be a first for you BH, you need to go back and reread your posts, most are diatribes against particular players/administrators/other posters, it gets tiresome to some of us, but this board is a democracy so you can do it

I am not the only one to point this out to you, I try and put forward my viewpoint, as it is not an opinion, see below to explain why

I watch footy to watch it, I don't sit there for hours analysing like you obviously do, it is meant for enjoyment........if they have a crack that will do me

Gee and you have it in for the left as well.....were you picked on at school or something?

You certainly don't like people disagreeing with you.

Grimes is just a Melbourne player for me, if he comes out each game and gives it the best he can, that's fine by me, if his best is eventually good enough to make him in others eyes an 'A' grade midfielder then that is cool as well

That is my 'opinion' of the team as well, I am only 'disappointed' when in my 'opinion' we didn't have a crack, ie last 10 minutes of the second qtr against St KIlda last weekend, same as Mark Neeld....hopefully we won't see that too often this coming season

No BH I read every word you write, gives me the full picture I can then pick holes in......a considered opinion that would nearly be a first for you BH, you need to go back and reread your posts, most are diatribes against particular players/administrators/other posters, it gets tiresome to some of us, but this board is a democracy so you can do it

I am not the only one to point this out to you, I try and put forward my viewpoint, as it is not an opinion, see below to explain why

I watch footy to watch it, I don't sit there for hours analysing like you obviously do, it is meant for enjoyment........if they have a crack that will do me

Gee and you have it in for the left as well.....were you picked on at school or something?

You certainly don't like people disagreeing with you.

Grimes is just a Melbourne player for me, if he comes out each game and gives it the best he can, that's fine by me, if his best is eventually good enough to make him in others eyes an 'A' grade midfielder then that is cool as well

That is my 'opinion' of the team as well, I am only 'disappointed' when in my 'opinion' we didn't have a crack, ie last 10 minutes of the second qtr against St KIlda last weekend, same as Mark Neeld....hopefully we won't see that too often this coming season

I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me. I wouldn't have been on this forum for over ten years if I did.

My opinion of Grimes was not directed at YOU and it WAS considered. You then pipe up with: "Wow, BH judging a guy on a practice game in 35 deg heat and masses of interchanges, you get better and better don't you". You then have the temerity to say to ME, "You certainly don't like people disagreeing with you.".

That's where you and your ilk make me laugh. I have no problem with diverse views. I often disagree with what I read, but I rarely attack a poster just for their view. But any negative comment and you come waltzing in with your misplaced nobleness. And you're then offended if you get a crack back having flamed the other person FIRST. Hysterical.

Now listen closely...

As I said, you hate negative opinions and you love positive opinions. That's about as brain dead as it gets. While you're happy watching a player give his best unfortunately that does nothing for me. I want success and those that can deliver it wearing red and blue. If players aren't good enough I don't want them at the club. Turn the list over. How many years have I been saying that ? And thank God it finally happened. I respect players that have a crack, but if they aren't good enough I have no interest in them.

My interest is the club, not individual players. Too many posters seem to have this out of kilter, which is why they get offended when they read any negativity. It's the club's success that interests me. I'll get enjoyment out of individual players, some more than others, but the club's interest is paramount. AFL footy is a ruthless business and it's the uncompromising clubs that succeed. You're prepared to compromise your own club with the attitude, "oh well, if he's good enough great, but if not that's OK. He gave his all". It's pathetic really.

I love Dean Kent, Jack Viney, Hogan and some others.

Haha of course. All the guys who haven't played a game yet. Surprised you're not bagging Hogan for being a star yet seeing so many other AFL players were stars at 17...