"Tanking"

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

I said 'a lot'. I didn't say 'all'. I don't think a 'lot' necessarily even means 'most'.

Funny though how most, if not all, people get the bulk of their information from, and rely on, the very media that they castigate, selectively filtering out what they want to hear from what they don't.

There will be a lot of egg on some faces when this is sorted out. Whether it's Caro and Pierek, or some posters here, I'm not willing to speculate.

A 'lot of the thinking' is how you put it, not a lot of the posts criticising journalists. And your second sentence makes no distinctions.

And where else would they get their information? The traditional media haven't quite been superseded yet.

[mauriesy 6,802]

And where else would they get their information? The traditional media haven't quite been superseded yet.

Which is exactly my point. Somehow we rely on the media for information (maybe also 'standard' responses from the club) and have little inside knowledge, yet we think we know more than Caro and she's wrong.

How will we really know Caro is wrong? It will be purely time and outcomes that tell me that, not assumption, bias or character assassination.

[sue 8,433]

Which is exactly my point. Somehow we rely on the media for information (maybe also 'standard' responses from the club) and have little inside knowledge, yet we think we know more than Caro and she's wrong.

How will we really know Caro is wrong? It will be purely time and outcomes that tell me that, not assumption, bias or character assassination.

I don't think many posters here are that critical of Caro's facts - they are precious few on this issue anyway. They are critical of her for the words I've bolded above in your post which apply to her recent efforts as much as any poster here.

A random forum member may be biased and have 'agendas' etc, but I expect better from a professional journalist. Or at least, I used to.

[rpfc 27,476]

Which is exactly my point. Somehow we rely on the media for information (maybe also 'standard' responses from the club) and have little inside knowledge, yet we think we know more than Caro and she's wrong.

How will we really know Caro is wrong? It will be purely time and outcomes that tell me that, not assumption, bias or character assassination.

See this is the shame - you are either unaware of what she initially claimed or you don't realise how much she got wrong.

She said that CC 'threatened' staff at a "code named"(1) meeting 'specifically called to discuss tanking the season' (2).

(1) Caroline didn't know, nor care to inquire that the 'code name' was actually the nickname given to the shed at the old juntion that housed the meeting - not the meeting itself.

(2) Caroline didn't know, or care to inquire that the 'specific tanking meeting' was a regular Match Committee meeting.

These myths are out in the ether now and I can tell you they are wrong and that Caroline will never be right about these 'facts'.

I guess it doesn't matter when the footy world (and some Dees fans evidently) think they are truth.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

So has the AFL announced a press conference yet? What are they waiting for?

[nutbean 8,837]

See this is the shame - you are either unaware of what she initially claimed or you don't realise how much she got wrong.

She said that CC 'threatened' staff at a "code named"(1) meeting 'specifically called to discuss tanking the season' (2).

(1) Caroline didn't know, nor care to inquire that the 'code name' was actually the nickname given to the shed at the old juntion that housed the meeting - not the meeting itself.

(2) Caroline didn't know, or care to inquire that the 'specific tanking meeting' was a regular Match Committee meeting.

These myths are out in the ether now and I can tell you they are wrong and that Caroline will never be right about these 'facts'.

I guess it doesn't matter when the footy world (and some Dees fans evidently) think they are truth.

And to top off the inaccuracies there is angst on here ( quite rightly) on not only her inaccuracies, but the imbalance of her opinion and the complete failure to report the complete landscape. When I want balance and wider coverage of issues on American Politics, analysis on both good and bad of all sides of the landscape I do not watch Fox News. Unfortunately too many footy journalists, Caro included have shown themselves to be the Fox news of football journalism ( did anyone notice how unhappy Bails was when Petterd kicked the goal against Richmond - FMD !)

[binman 38,134]

So has the AFL announced a press conference yet? What are they waiting for?

A player to test positive for tanking

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

A player to test positive for tanking

A beautifully mixed metaphor Binman. Still, if they say it will be this week, then just get on with it...........pleasssssssse

[nutbean 8,837]

A beautifully mixed metaphor Binman. Still, if they say it will be this week, then just get on with it...........pleasssssssse

Who is "they" ?

[mauriesy 6,802]

The name of the meeting or room are trivial. I'm not going to hang Caro over getting a meeting name or room name wrong.

The substantive issues are what took place and whether there was pressure within the club not to perform, either at the meeting or over a longer period of time. Caro or any other journalist in some sort of 'loop' might well know that better than any of us who just read the papers. Neither I nor anyone else here knows that at present, yet many are readily prepared to make judgements because it suits them not to believe there has been a misdemeanour by the club.

I'm simply waiting for outcomes rather than prematurely speculating, and have been all along.

[mauriesy 6,802]

not only her inaccuracies, but the imbalance of her opinion and the complete failure to report the complete landscape.

So since you seem to have knowledge, what exactly is 'the complete landscape'? What facts do you have that counter Caro's 'imbalanced' opinion?

I'm not saying Caro is right. I'm just saying no has supplied me with information yet, other than the club's basic denial, that tells me she is definitely wrong.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

The name of the meeting or room are trivial. I'm not going to hang Caro over getting a meeting name or room name wrong.

The substantive issues are what took place and whether there was pressure within the club not to perform, either at the meeting or over a longer period of time. Caro or any other journalist in some sort of 'loop' might well know that better than any of us who just read the papers. Neither I nor anyone else here knows that at present, yet many are readily prepared to make judgements because it suits them not to believe there has been a misdemeanour by the club.

I'm simply waiting for outcomes rather than prematurely speculating, and have been all along.

Maurie,

In an effort to add gravitas to her story, she spun it so the "vault" sounded like some sinister star chamber and her citing of a comment she attributes to Chris Connolly, failed to understand the underlying humour in it. Other than that, there was no substance to the story whatsoever.

Her article, quinnellaed with Brock " Are your McLeans showing" OTC interview, precipitated this damn inquiry. That is why we are angry. A mere bagatelle, that is nothing more than a distraction to the main game.

A pox on their houses I say.

[nutbean 8,837]

The name of the meeting or room are trivial. I'm not going to hang Caro over getting a meeting name or room name wrong.

The substantive issues are what took place and whether there was pressure within the club not to perform, either at the meeting or over a longer period of time. Caro or any other journalist in some sort of 'loop' might well know that better than any of us who just read the papers. Neither I nor anyone else here knows that at present, yet many are readily prepared to make judgements because it suits them not to believe there has been a misdemeanour by the club.

I'm simply waiting for outcomes rather than prematurely speculating, and have been all along.

I cant follow the logic - Caro and others have been out there on this subject in a very inflammatory way. You claim that they may know better than we who just read the papers. But what Caro and the like have published ( albeit full of inaccuracies) to date doesnt add up to a hill of beans. Unless the likes of Caro are holding back on information which makes no sense to me as she has been willing to publish stuff that isnt factual, then it is fair for us to make the judgement on what she has published that club hasnt broken rules or accepted practices as they stand.

[mjt 640]

My friend's lovely partner works for a company that sells membership and raffle tickets for the AFL and the 18 clubs, shes been doing the MFC for the last 2 weeks and reckons its had a major affect on the supporters, she said everyone she rings keeps asking about the tanking inquiry, thinking that she works personally for club, the sooner theres a result the better.

[binman 38,134]

I'm not saying Caro is right. I'm just saying no has supplied me with information yet, other than the club's basic denial, that tells me she is definitely wrong.

That's true. However, if we do not end up being charged (or even if we do and are found not guilty) she will have been proved very wrong. She was adamant we would face serious sanctions and that CC and CS would go. She may still may be right, though i think this is very unlikely.

She made a big, big call and to boot was ,for a journalist,(as opposed to say a spiteful blogger or anonymous internet forum poster) incredibly personal in her attacks on tose two, indeed the club. Words such as disgusting etc are incredibly emotive and borderline defamatory.

If her predictions in that article don't come true she will have major egg on her face.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Who is "they" ?

The AFL mate, as reported in the Hun earlier this week.

[mjt 640]

That's true. However if we do not end up being charged (or even if we do and are found not guilty) she will have been proved very wrong. She was adamant we would face serious sanctions and that CC and CS would go. She may still may be right, though i think this is very unlikely.

She made a big, big call and to boot was ,for a journalist,(as opposed to say a spiteful blogger or anonymous internet forum poster) incredibly personal in her attacks on tose two, ideed the club. Words such as disgusting etc are incredibly emotive and borderline defamatory.

If her predictions in that article don't come true she will have major egg on her face.

Wouldnt be the first time shes had egg on her face.

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

Which is exactly my point. Somehow we rely on the media for information (maybe also 'standard' responses from the club) and have little inside knowledge, yet we think we know more than Caro and she's wrong.

How will we really know Caro is wrong? It will be purely time and outcomes that tell me that, not assumption, bias or character assassination.

No, your point is more that if people get information from some journalist or other they're not entitled to criticise the way in which that information is presented.

[Cards13 9,117]

Wouldnt be the first time shes had egg on her face.

That's not egg

[mjt 640]

That's not egg

Ha Ha, wouldnt it be nice if we could post what we actually think.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Wouldnt be the first time shes had egg on her face.

If they don't get sacked, as you've been predicting, then what do you reckon you'll have on your face?

[Paul Gardner 6]

I dont believe it was the AFL that said they would respond by the end of the week - I think it was reporters who said the AFL would respond by the end of the week.

The "papers" have been so wrong so frequently that thismay well be another report that will not be all that accurate. (when I heard that the AFL had handed the MFC a 600 800 1000 page document and gave us a month to respond and then it was reported that the AFL was going to make a decision on our response within 4 days ??? I thought WTF ????). Anyways I am confident that this will come to a head in the next day week month year decade millenium.

the papers might have it on good authority

[nutbean 8,837]

So since you seem to have knowledge, what exactly is 'the complete landscape'? What facts do you have that counter Caro's 'imbalanced' opinion?

I'm not saying Caro is right. I'm just saying no has supplied me with information yet, other than the club's basic denial, that tells me she is definitely wrong.

Where did i say i had knowledge - I am comparing her imbalanced opinions and inaccuracies that have been outed against other reports that seem to take a more balanced and historical view of this issue

For a more balanced opinion - have a look at Gerard Healy's article .

There have been numerous reports of clubs "tanking" for picks over the past decade ? correct or incorrect ?

AD has constantly stated that tanking does not exist. correct or incorrect ?

The AFL has stated that other "tanking" incidents such as Carlton and Terry Wallaces comments regarding not coaching because of the Cotchin pick were looked at and nothing further needed to be done.correct or incorrect.

A balanced view, a logical view, a view that looks at the whole landscape would at least put forward the proposal as Healy and others have done that these incidents have tacit approval from the AFL and what the MFC has done is not out of step with the other incidents. I have no problem with a journalist suggesting that we are twice as bad because CC put pressure on staff to lose and we purposely fumbled and didnt play Jack Watts enough but Caro's reporting has been completely devoid of even the slightest reference to the tacit approval by the AFL of historical practices which would leave the investigation with very little to hang its hat on.

Its a bit like reporting in history books that American's killed lots of Japanese in world war two and dropped to A bombs on mainland Japan - all true and all horrific and completely omittiing a little thing called Pearl Harbour..

[mjt 640]

If they don't get sacked, as you've been predicting, then what do you reckon you'll have on your face?

Probably the same thing you have on your face now.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Probably the same thing you have on your face now.

Boy that was a good come back.

How old are you 12?