"Tanking"

[beelzebub 22,282]

Felt sure she would open up with a returning salvo.

I agree with Red lol

[mjt 640]

"this is different to DB stating at his final press conference in direct response to a question about tanking that he had "no hesitation in ensuring the club was well placed for draft picks..."

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Bailey ever used the words "draft picks" , I recall him saying he "did the right thing by the club"

I think he did say draft picks.

[sue 8,475]

So you're in the camp, "they did it and nothing happened, so why can't we ?"

That doesn't cut it when you're being investigated, Brother.

Maybe not, but it could well be relevant if it goes to court.

As I've said before, it is not like getting booked for speeding while the next car does not. The AFL runs a competition which we and the other naughty clubs are all in. I'm just a bush lawyer, but my guess is that that issue could well be a line MFC could take in court. Which if I'm correct, would make the AFL think twice about riling the MFC too much.

[mauriesy 6,854]

As I've said before, it is not like getting booked for speeding while the next car does not.

It's like going up on a charge of burglary and using as a defence that all the other burglars haven't been caught, so you should get off.

It's like the naughty kid at school who when caught by the teacher points to another kid and says "but she did it too!"

There might be some injustice, but it doesn't mean you didn't do it.

[Redleg 38,003]

I think he did say draft picks.

Bailey said last year at his farewell press conference: "I had no hesitation at all in the first two years (2008-09) in ensuring the club was well-placed for draft picks.

"I was asked to do the best thing by the Melbourne Football Club and I did it. I put players in different positions," Bailey said.

An AFL investigation which followed Bailey's bombshell found the Demons had no case to answer over tanking allegations.

I was wrong as above is from an AFL article on the subject. he actually said both things. Last line is still interesting. There was an AFL investigation which cleared us and yet given Brock's comments were far less inflammatory than Bailey's, yet another investigation was started. The question then becomes, Why?

[Redleg 38,003]

It's like going up on a charge of burglary and using as a defence that all the other burglars haven't been caught, so you should get off.

It's like the naughty kid at school who when caught by the teacher points to another kid and says "but she did it too!"

There might be some injustice, but it doesn't mean you didn't do it.

Not quite Maurie, its actually more like 5 identical crimes are committed but the Police choose to investigate only one. Do you think that would go down well with the Public? It's not about others not getting caught it's about selective investigating.

If the AFL was serious why wasn't there a general inquiry into tanking by the AFL clubs, no one could have argued unfairness in that scenario.

[Longsufferingnomore 1,489]

Tim Watson on SEN this morning believes that there will be announcement by the AFL either today or tomorrow. He also believes that the AFL will announce penalties and that the whole matter is going to court.

Just what we need for this to go on another 7 months (at least) and hang over the Club like a stench.

[beelzebub 22,282]

I always believe Tim

[nutbean 8,837]

Not quite Maurie, its actually more like 5 identical crimes are committed but the Police choose to investigate only one. Do you think that would go down well with the Public? It's not about others not getting caught it's about selective investigating.

If the AFL was serious why wasn't there a general inquiry into tanking by the AFL clubs, no one could have argued unfairness in that scenario.

And not only are there 5 identical crimes - the police have the name and address of the criminals and in the case of Richmond - a signed confession.

[Longsufferingnomore 1,489]

Not quite Maurie, its actually more like 5 identical crimes are committed but the Police choose to investigate only one. Do you think that would go down well with the Public? It's not about others not getting caught it's about selective investigating.

If the AFL was serious why wasn't there a general inquiry into tanking by the AFL clubs, no one could have argued unfairness in that scenario.

Red what impact does the argument "selective investigation" have on our case if we do go to court. To me (being legally challenged as I am!) it does not impact on the charge at all. Please tell me I am wrong. Also what would the other Clubs care as long as they are not in coutr. They would not give a rat's. Some would see the impact on the Club as giving them another easy beat. It's dog eat dog out there.

I am starting to get really worried as to the affect this is going to have on the Club as a whole - players, staff and marketability - if it does not go away in the immediate future.

[daisycutter 28,681]

Felt sure she would open up with a returning salvo.

I agree with Red lol

i just hope the afl weren't waiting for her return so they could make an announcement (after leaking it of course)

[mjt 640]

Tim Watson on SEN this morning believes that there will be announcement by the AFL either today or tomorrow. He also believes that the AFL will announce penalties and that the whole matter is going to court.

Just what we need for this to go on another 7 months (at least) and hang over the Club like a stench.

Yeah lets take on a billion dollar corporation in court, the club will end up folding.

[Longsufferingnomore 1,489]

I always believe Tim

BB the problem is they obviously get told more than we do and at the moment we are all clutching at straws because none of us actually know what the AFL will do to us.

I do agree he is a lightweight though.

[daisycutter 28,681]

-7 (phase II)

its time enough, surely

[Johnny Karate 559]

How do you know who's lining up with baseball bats ... or if there's even a line at all?

Lots of speculation, followed by conclusions based on speculation. In reality, none of us know who's actually said what.

There have been plenty of past instances of players & employees parting ways with the MFC in unhappy if not poisonous terms. The club has leaked like a sieve to the media over the past 3 years from within & outside from former employees/admin. Bailey & McLean felt compelled to infer that the club was rorting the system. How was the JMac fiasco handled? Miller & Bruce gave scathing exit interviews. Chris Johnson son of an MFC gun was publicly humiliated in front of the whole playing group. If you want to go further back, how was Woewodin treated? Or Daniher in being asked to reapply for his own job after 10 years in the chair? A large factor in our massive debt was high staff turnover.

When Hawthorn turned over their list - players such as Holland, Thompson & Barker had nothing bad to say about their club. Yet we have had players such as Bruce, McLean & Moloney who all loved the club, depart very hastily as well as a number one draft pick who felt he would be looked after better by a team that hadn't even kicked a ball in anger.

Carlton wasn't really killed by the AFL for salary cap rorting, they were killed by Silvagni, O'Reilly & other whistleblowers willingly admitting fraud to spite John Elliott. Melbourne is being investigated for tanking on the back of a former coach & player inferring that the club was delibrately losing for draft picks. No other club has had former employees go on the record with such candour. Fev & Libba's suspicions are not the same as Bailey saying he had "no hesitation" about placing the club well for draft picks, nor McLean claiming Bailey was under pressure to tank & that both agreed that it was [censored] in DB's office. Both have tried to qualify those statements now but a large part of it is to save their own hides. Neither would've made the statements so recklessly in the first place if they didn't feel some antipathy towards the MFC for how it had treated them & the situation in the first place.

The MFC has a history of mismanagement & treating its own poorly. Those are facts, not conjecture. A spade is a spade & a club that doesn't treat its people well is bound to be bitten on the arse by revenge seekers.

[nutbean 8,837]

Yeah lets take on a billion dollar corporation in court, the club will end up folding.

So little idea. So because the AFL is a billion dollar corporation you think that gives them a monopoly within the legal system. For a perfect example of how wrong you are try checking the record of the Australian Customs Service in court - their record on cases against small companies that have been taken to court is appalling.

[mjt 640]

So little idea. So because the AFL is a billion dollar corporation you think that gives them a monopoly within the legal system. For a perfect example of how wrong you are try checking the record of the Australian Customs Service in court - their record on cases against small companies that have been taken to court is appalling.

CS and CC should just fall on there sword, do the whole supporter base a favour.

[beelzebub 22,282]

Not only would we win a court case, but the general and punitive damages that might be entertained would shake the AFL to its rotten core.

The bigger they are, the harder they fall ( the more they pay )

The court ignores the might of the AFL's size, only listens to its case , and it really has none, not in an open and fair court ( unlike its own efforts )

[Longsufferingnomore 1,489]

There have been plenty of past instances of players & employees parting ways with the MFC in unhappy if not poisonous terms. The club has leaked like a sieve to the media over the past 3 years from within & outside from former employees/admin. Bailey & McLean felt compelled to infer that the club was rorting the system. How was the JMac fiasco handled? Miller & Bruce gave scathing exit interviews. Chris Johnson son of an MFC gun was publicly humiliated in front of the whole playing group. If you want to go further back, how was Woewodin treated? Or Daniher in being asked to reapply for his own job after 10 years in the chair? A large factor in our massive debt was high staff turnover.

When Hawthorn turned over their list - players such as Holland, Thompson & Barker had nothing bad to say about their club. Yet we have had players such as Bruce, McLean & Moloney who all loved the club, depart very hastily as well as a number one draft pick who felt he would be looked after better by a team that hadn't even kicked a ball in anger.

Carlton wasn't really killed by the AFL for salary cap rorting, they were killed by Silvagni, O'Reilly & other whistleblowers willingly admitting fraud to spite John Elliott. Melbourne is being investigated for tanking on the back of a former coach & player inferring that the club was delibrately losing for draft picks. No other club has had former employees go on the record with such candour. Fev & Libba's suspicions are not the same as Bailey saying he had "no hesitation" about placing the club well for draft picks, nor McLean claiming Bailey was under pressure to tank & that both agreed that it was [censored] in DB's office. Both have tried to qualify those statements now but a large part of it is to save their own hides. Neither would've made the statements so recklessly in the first place if they didn't feel some antipathy towards the MFC for how it had treated them & the situation in the first place.

The MFC has a history of mismanagement & treating its own poorly. Those are facts, not conjecture. A spade is a spade & a club that doesn't treat its people well is bound to be bitten on the arse by revenge seekers.

Unbelievable.

[beelzebub 22,282]

CS and CC should just fall on there sword, do the whole supporter base a favour.

why?

thats tantamount to admitting guilt.. *%#@ that !!

and it still woulndt be the end of it.

The only way to finish this is to stand up to the bully ....and deck him !!

[mjt 640]

Not only would we win a court case, but the general and punitive damages that might be entertained would shake the AFL to its rotten core.

The bigger they are, the harder they fall ( the more they pay )

The court ignores the might of the AFL's size, only listens to its case , and it really has none, not in an open and fair court ( unlike its own efforts )

What if we lose and have to pay there costs? Goodbye MFC, these two are a joke, i went to that Richmond game expecting a win that day along thousands of others,now we might have to go through months of court cases, those two are just a running joke.

[beelzebub 22,282]

What if we lose...what if we lose.. ffs they CANT win. They know it They ( the AFL ) would be counting on us being timid and not willing to put up . Thats how bullies work. FEAR !!

As Neil Young once penned....there comes a time !! ours is now.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

What if we lose and have to pay there costs? Goodbye MFC, these two are a joke, i went to that Richmond game expecting a win that day along thousands of others,now we might have to go through months of court cases, those two are just a running joke.

If we were threatened with sanction by the AFL, a decision to go to Court and challenge would only be taken where there is a strong professional belief and opinion that the case has such significant merit, it would almost be impossible to lose it. You do not usually go to Court, unless you are charged with a criminal offence or you're more than confident of the outcome.

We have enough legal talent within the clubs influential supporter base to make sure this would occur. Who knows, some altruistic Demon Legal Eagle may even offer to do it pro bono.

That said, let's not jump at shadows just yet. I would surmise that the AFL is trying to come up with a well worded and rehearsed announcement so as not to lose face in the eyes of the football public. Once that is done, I think we will be reasonably comfortable.

[nutbean 8,837]

What if we lose and have to pay there costs? Goodbye MFC, these two are a joke, i went to that Richmond game expecting a win that day along thousands of others,now we might have to go through months of court cases, those two are just a running joke.

Umm - what if we lose ? I suspect the reason we have employed the likes of an ex supreme court judge and top legal firms is to advise exactly on that. None of us are experts in law but common concensus by commentators is the AFL would get their butts kicked in court. ( again - the disclaimer is that those commenting arent legal experts and havent been privvy to the evidence).

You went to the Richmond game expecting a win and so did thousands of others - really ? is that why Richmond started favourite for that game ? We were horrible in 2009 and the best I went in with was HOPING for a win. Expecting a win ? i dont think so.

And CS and CC are running jokes - I have a sense of humour - fill me in. You may not like some of their actions but I suspect if you asked 99% of the football public who was the CEO and football manager back in 2009 ( or now) they wouldnt be able to tell you.

[Guest fitness]

Chiefs break ranks on drugs

I could be wrong but I'm going to presume Caro has been on holidays for a while and only just got back to work. Coincidence that the AFL are poised to make an announcement on the investigation only now that she's returned? Worries me because if the AFL were intending to announce an 'all-clear', surely they'd have been better off doing this while CW was away.