Illegal drug culture - Football

[Schneider 220]

"Footy is the hardest profession around. The most intense pressure."

That's so sad, poor guys, is there a support group?

Can I donate?

[Carrot Top 947]

Funny to see people so relaxed about a Caro special.

No quotes, save an old reference to Pert's comments a week ago.

No sources.

No facts.

No incidents cited involving Swan or Fisher.

The only non-Caro reference I've seen to the Fisher claims was a denial from a team mate.

If her claims can't be substantiated better than this even if they are right, they are not worth publishing.

Now because she's not writing about us we think it's OK.

Regardless of what lies behind it, this reporting method is seriously questionable.

I dunno about whether it's OK or not, but I really don't care. I'm just busy thanking whatever football gods there are that it isn't us.

[RickyJ45 417]

Hopefully the rockstar behavior - ie you haven't played AFL until .... (insert name of well respected attractive young female celebrity/stripper) has snorted charlie off your wood

seems restricted to more successful clubs eg WCE(aka meth coke eckies) or the CFC (charliewoods) so we don't have to worry here .

Thanks for the great AFL moral conscience of our time (Caro) to focus on this and forget tanking for a sec

While AFL is a window on society, it is an exaggerated and worse case (potentially) of what goes on in the broader community.

Thanks to increasing capitalism and celeb culture, more young lads have way to much cash and time to waste on dumb things that seem to be of interest to us

ie illegal drugs.

Maybe there are lessons to learn here but I have no interest as long as no one on our playing group is personally affected.

[pitmaster 3,589]

I dunno about whether it's OK or not, but I really don't care. I'm just busy thanking whatever football gods there are that it isn't us.

My point, CT, is that the method is the same she applied to us. But I share your care factor.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

If her claims can't be substantiated better than this even if they are right, they are not worth publishing.

How do you know they cant? Wilson is generally very well researched or informed.

Her statements about Swan and Fisher are not ground breaking. There has been considerable off media comment about the off field habits of a number of AFL players including Swan and FIsher. The situation is that both clubs are starting to tire of the somewhat wayward behaviours.

It was similar to the Cousins situation where he had never been tested positive but the street talk was strong there were issues.

I would not be so dismissive of what Wilson has to say on this.

I dunno about whether it's OK or not, but I really don't care. I'm just busy thanking whatever football gods there are that it isn't us.

How can you be so sure?

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

Im hearing some fascinating rumours coming out about this.

[Biffen 12,949]

"Footy is the hardest profession around. The most intense pressure."

That's so sad, poor guys, is there a support group?

Can I donate?

Those guys inventing those vaccines that cure disease really annoy me with their bad-boy Nobel winning attitudes.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

The 'its society's problem' mentality ofcourse ignores the fact that few outside large income earners can afford an ongoing addiction to cocaine... Add to that a 'FIGJAM' mentality of the superstar mentality and its a potent mix.

[Carrot Top 947]

How can you be so sure?

I find life as a Melbourne supporter interesting enough without imagining things. If something pops up that includes us I'll concern myself with it then, but not until.

[My TD 156]

Hopefully the rockstar behavior - ie you haven't played AFL until .... (insert name of well respected attractive young female celebrity/stripper) has snorted charlie off your wood

Evocative imagery there.

[dee-luded 2,959]

AFL stars exploit loophole to avoid drug strikes

AFL players are avoiding drug strikes by exploiting a loophole in the game's illicit drugs policy.

The Herald Sun can reveal there has been a spike in players self-reporting the use of drugs to AFL medical directors Dr Peter Harcourt and Dr Harry Unglik.

The concern is restricted to a small number of players, most from the same club.

By self-reporting, players avoid registering a positive drug test and a strike against their name.

Self-reporting is a feature of the AFL's three-strikes illicit drugs policy and occurs when a player wishes to admit having used drugs.

Club chiefs say excuses used include "I have had my drink spiked" and "I've accidentally had drugs".

Some players have self-reported more than once, raising concerns about a deliberate abuse of the policy.

AFL players are regularly tested for illicit drugs and can be tested at any time, not just on match days.

There was a surge in self-reports this year, leading to suspicions players were abusing the system.

The revelation comes amid calls for a tightening of the illicit drugs policy and concern from clubs about a growing illegal drug culture.

The Herald Sun understands the AFL and AFLPA are considering limiting the number of allowable self-reporting incidents to one per player.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/afl-stars-exploit-loophole-to-avoid-drug-strikes/story-e6freuy9-1226527803083

[Tassie Devil 28]

The policy is a joke. I don't know how journos keep a straight face when Anderson rolls out his faux data each year and sums it up by telling us the policy is working.

CIP - Have you ever read reports from the International Narcotics Control Board (INCB)? This body drives the world's policy on (illicit) drugs and tells us year after year that the "war on drugs" is being won. Well worth a read.

http://www.incb.org/

These people also manage to keep a "straight face". Even more amusing is they classify cocaine and amphetamine type stimulants as 'narcotics'.

This issue has elements of both moral panic and conspiracy theory - a perfect distraction during the off season.

[Tassie Devil 28]

In closing if you feel drugs are not harmful find a kid around 11 to 12 years of age who is a beautiful fun loving child and a bit of a larican, handsome, fit and full of life. Due to circumstances out of the kids control he gets in with the wrong crowd and mum and dad are to pre occupied to care or notice change,

That snippet sounds like something out of the Christian Brothers Handbook.

edit [Although the Christian Bros would not let such a post get by without beating the perpetrator of such atrocious spelling and grammar]

Edited December 1, 2012 by Tassie Devil

[Tassie Devil 28]

Why is methadone much worse? This is a comment from some-one who does not know the methodology behind methadone. Methadone is a synthetic form of opiate. It has a much longer half life than heroin. Heroin has a half life of 8 hours. This requires a heroin users to use heroin 3 to 4 times a day in order to function. As a result, users will be unemployed unable to hold a job and function, ultimately heroin users will resort to crime to feed a habit.

Methadone has a half life of 24 hours and only requires an addict to use once a day. Therefore they can work and function on a daily basis. They attend a pharmacy each day to get their medication. Its a program designed not to get indivifuals off their face or high.

This makes methadone sound like a perfect form of social control. A pharmaceutical panopticon that keeps people who need to be 'disciplined' under constant surveillance - or at least suspect they are.

We can't have people getting 'high' can we - unless it's from grog or tobacco.

Going to a pharmacy for your (socially acceptable) fix every day can be a drag when you start work at 5-7am, work a 12 hour day, and live in an area with poor access to public transport and/or primary health care services.

[Biffen 12,949]

This makes methadone sound like a perfect form of social control. A pharmaceutical panopticon that keeps people who need to be 'disciplined' under constant surveillance - or at least suspect they are.

We can't have people getting 'high' can we - unless it's from grog or tobacco.

Going to a pharmacy for your (socially acceptable) fix every day can be a drag when you start work at 5-7am, work a 12 hour day, and live in an area with poor access to public transport and/or primary health care services.

I like your posts Tas.

Some of the conservative suff here is so Hackneyed and ridiculous.

"They start with pot and then progress onto harder stuff etc."

I know there are some sad stories with persian rugs and I have known many people who've died from their over-use or related illnesses.

To assume that a few guy who plays AFL footy and snort coke/ smoke pot constitute "a problem" is ridiculous .

It's a problem when it destroys someones entire life ,family etc of course but the greatest cause of this in our society BY FAR is alcohol.

The AFL will never attack the alcohol lobby and were reluctant to have to give up the ciggy dollar too.

You cannot stop people drinking,ingesting,smoking ,snorting etc.

You cannot stop teams"experimenting" for draft picks.

You cannot stop Caros agenda driving Adrian and Andy into "action".

[dee-luded 2,959]

I like your posts Tas.

Some of the conservative suff here is so Hackneyed and ridiculous.

"They start with pot and then progress onto harder stuff etc."

I know there are some sad stories with persian rugs and I have known many people who've died from their over-use or related illnesses.

To assume that a few guy who plays AFL footy and snort coke/ smoke pot constitute "a problem" is ridiculous .

It's a problem when it destroys someones entire life ,family etc of course but the greatest cause of this in our society BY FAR is alcohol.

The AFL will never attack the alcohol lobby and were reluctant to have to give up the ciggy dollar too.

You cannot stop people drinking,ingesting,smoking ,snorting etc.

You cannot stop teams"experimenting" for draft picks.

You cannot stop Caros agenda driving Adrian and Andy into "action".

Spot on Biff.

The real travesty isn't upsetting someones sunday breakfast, or some sponsor. It's the hardship people go thru that causes them to need an alternate state of mind just to get thru the day.

What are we creating in our western world. a stress circus merry go round that j8ust keeps on spinning faster til most have been flung off, with some just hanging on by they're finger tips.

What is this crap? Go back to the 60's -70's, before its too late.

Some people are addicted to drugs, some are addicted to adrenaline, some are addicts of power & control, & some aren't very honest about it all to themselves.

[rjay 25,301]

I like your posts Tas.

Some of the conservative suff here is so Hackneyed and ridiculous.

"They start with pot and then progress onto harder stuff etc."

I know there are some sad stories with persian rugs and I have known many people who've died from their over-use or related illnesses.

To assume that a few guy who plays AFL footy and snort coke/ smoke pot constitute "a problem" is ridiculous .

It's a problem when it destroys someones entire life ,family etc of course but the greatest cause of this in our society BY FAR is alcohol.

The AFL will never attack the alcohol lobby and were reluctant to have to give up the ciggy dollar too.

You cannot stop people drinking,ingesting,smoking ,snorting etc.

You cannot stop teams"experimenting" for draft picks.

You cannot stop Caros agenda driving Adrian and Andy into "action".

We shouldn't also forget their cosy relationship with the gambling industry and the cost of that to many peoples lives.

A question for you 'tassie and biff', I've thought for a long while now that some form of legalisation would be best. With the newer drugs like 'Ice' I haven't come into contact much with users, I'm a bit out of that loop now.

The media talks up the violence associated with some of these drugs, as a drug heroin causes issues for users to get the money and relationships with dealers so there is often crime associated with it and sometimes violent crime but the drug it self pacifies the user.

The question is would some form of legalisation work for things like ice or would it create an even more violent society?

I am aware of the problems alcohol as a legal drug causes as I was king hit from behind a few years back at a late night bottle shop but would legalising be a good option. You guys and 'WYL' seem to have a good handle on these issues so I'm interested in your opinions.

[Sir Why You Little 37,296]

Drugs should be legalized and fully regulated so that sales and users can be monitored.

It is the only way the problem can be managed.

[Tassie Devil 28]

We shouldn't also forget their cosy relationship with the gambling industry and the cost of that to many peoples lives.

A question for you 'tassie and biff', I've thought for a long while now that some form of legalisation would be best. With the newer drugs like 'Ice' I haven't come into contact much with users, I'm a bit out of that loop now.

The media talks up the violence associated with some of these drugs, as a drug heroin causes issues for users to get the money and relationships with dealers so there is often crime associated with it and sometimes violent crime but the drug it self pacifies the user.

The question is would some form of legalisation work for things like ice or would it create an even more violent society?

I am aware of the problems alcohol as a legal drug causes as I was king hit from behind a few years back at a late night bottle shop but would legalising be a good option. You guys and 'WYL' seem to have a good handle on these issues so I'm interested in your opinions.

A form of regulation as we see with alcohol and tobacco makes sense - unfortunately our political leaders lack the moral fibre to even suggest such a courageous departure from the current orthodoxy and, instead, seek to be seen as tougher on drugs than their political rivals.

This is an example of policy-based evidence as opposed to evidence-based policy - sadly all too common these days.

My work and study has exposed me to best and worst practice responses in this field - political posturing means we see more of the latter.

A new player in the field is the "new recovery" movement that is gaining political traction but is really just more of the same old abstinence model. "Recovering from what?" is the question being asked of this approach by experts who acknowledge people will always experiment with some form of psychostimulant.

Ice and other amphetamine type stimulants (ATS) pose challenges that some of the leading experts in treatment and harm reduction fields admit they are struggling with. Getting clinical trials approved for ATS replacement pharmacotherapies is a challenge in itself, and there is a lot of work to be done to develop effective responses to these type of drugs.

All the experts I have worked with and met over many years admit we need to change the way we deal with drugs (pun intended) but until we acknowledge that prohibition has failed we cannot begin to think of a rational, evidence-based alternative. There are some sensible alternative models developed by some very smart people - and isolated cases such as Portugal have shown there is another way.

As for the cannabis gateway theory - most Australian kids who have tried cannabis have probably also tried Vegemite. Let's ban Vegemite too.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

A form of regulation as we see with alcohol and tobacco makes sense - unfortunately our political leaders lack the moral fibre to even suggest such a courageous departure from the current orthodoxy and, instead, seek to be seen as tougher on drugs than their political rivals.

This is an example of policy-based evidence as opposed to evidence-based policy - sadly all too common these days.

My work and study has exposed me to best and worst practice responses in this field - political posturing means we see more of the latter.

A new player in the field is the "new recovery" movement that is gaining political traction but is really just more of the same old abstinence model. "Recovering from what?" is the question being asked of this approach by experts who acknowledge people will always experiment with some form of psychostimulant.

Ice and other amphetamine type stimulants (ATS) pose challenges that some of the leading experts in treatment and harm reduction fields admit they are struggling with. Getting clinical trials approved for ATS replacement pharmacotherapies is a challenge in itself, and there is a lot of work to be done to develop effective responses to these type of drugs.

All the experts I have worked with and met over many years admit we need to change the way we deal with drugs (pun intended) but until we acknowledge that prohibition has failed we cannot begin to think of a rational, evidence-based alternative. There are some sensible alternative models developed by some very smart people - and isolated cases such as Portugal have shown there is another way.

As for the cannabis gateway theory - most Australian kids who have tried cannabis have probably also tried Vegemite. Let's ban Vegemite too.

Yep legalise it all, more drugs for everyone; give drugs legal status and show the kids in schools that as soon as they reach a certain age they can jump on the bandwagon. Mind you we better tell them that they may never be able to jump off again.

It's not like we don't have enough problems with alcohol and tobacco already, but never mind, think of the new employment opportunities we can create, drug councillors, extra ambo's, more opportunities for doctors in emergency etc. On the other side however we will lose employment in the drug squad and a whole heap of people who sold drugs will have to supplement their income with, maybe burglaries, home invasions.

The acceptance of illegal drugs in our society today is astounding and it seems that if you don't "use" you're in the minority; of course they don't call it by that name anymore it's now "recreational" drugs or "party" drugs. When I grew up as a teenager there was not one in our group that "used" and whilst we were all guilty of drinking beer that was it, now I guess you would be lucky to find one in a group like that, that didn't "use".

Sad really, that we've been brainwashed by those with a vested interest in to believing that it's all ok.

[rjay 25,301]

Yep legalise it all, more drugs for everyone; give drugs legal status and show the kids in schools that as soon as they reach a certain age they can jump on the bandwagon. Mind you we better tell them that they may never be able to jump off again.

It's not like we don't have enough problems with alcohol and tobacco already, but never mind, think of the new employment opportunities we can create, drug councillors, extra ambo's, more opportunities for doctors in emergency etc. On the other side however we will lose employment in the drug squad and a whole heap of people who sold drugs will have to supplement their income with, maybe burglaries, home invasions.

The acceptance of illegal drugs in our society today is astounding and it seems that if you don't "use" you're in the minority; of course they don't call it by that name anymore it's now "recreational" drugs or "party" drugs. When I grew up as a teenager there was not one in our group that "used" and whilst we were all guilty of drinking beer that was it, now I guess you would be lucky to find one in a group like that, that didn't "use".

Sad really, that we've been brainwashed by those with a vested interest in to believing that it's all ok.

'Robbie', I'm sure 'Tassie Devil' will be better placed to reply to your post but to my mind we already have a huge problem with drugs in our society on a par with alcohol and tobacco so the present approach isn't working. There also seems to be a vested interest in keeping the status quo, there is a lot of money to be made in illegal drugs plus there also seems to be a thriving prison sector that is being privatised built on the back of drug related crime.

I'm interested in how we can make things better, what is the best approach. The one thing I know is that prohibition doesn't work, never has.

[Biffen 12,949]

Yep legalise it all, more drugs for everyone; give drugs legal status and show the kids in schools that as soon as they reach a certain age they can jump on the bandwagon. Mind you we better tell them that they may never be able to jump off again.

It's not like we don't have enough problems with alcohol and tobacco already, but never mind, think of the new employment opportunities we can create, drug councillors, extra ambo's, more opportunities for doctors in emergency etc. On the other side however we will lose employment in the drug squad and a whole heap of people who sold drugs will have to supplement their income with, maybe burglaries, home invasions.

The acceptance of illegal drugs in our society today is astounding and it seems that if you don't "use" you're in the minority; of course they don't call it by that name anymore it's now "recreational" drugs or "party" drugs. When I grew up as a teenager there was not one in our group that "used" and whilst we were all guilty of drinking beer that was it, now I guess you would be lucky to find one in a group like that, that didn't "use".

Sad really, that we've been brainwashed by those with a vested interest in to believing that it's all ok.

Robbie ,

Whilst you grew up in a monoculture ,which is fine ,

I grew up in the inner city.

People did all kinds of things and they still do .

There is no acceptance or majority/minority stance to be had on the issue.

Drugs are the second biggest industry in the world ,behind arms sales.

They are a fact of life and have been for thousands of years.

I'm not brainwashed into thinking it's ok or promoting drugs.

I dont think anyone is .

[rjay 25,301]

A form of regulation as we see with alcohol and tobacco makes sense - unfortunately our political leaders lack the moral fibre to even suggest such a courageous departure from the current orthodoxy and, instead, seek to be seen as tougher on drugs than their political rivals.

This is an example of policy-based evidence as opposed to evidence-based policy - sadly all too common these days.

My work and study has exposed me to best and worst practice responses in this field - political posturing means we see more of the latter.

A new player in the field is the "new recovery" movement that is gaining political traction but is really just more of the same old abstinence model. "Recovering from what?" is the question being asked of this approach by experts who acknowledge people will always experiment with some form of psychostimulant.

Ice and other amphetamine type stimulants (ATS) pose challenges that some of the leading experts in treatment and harm reduction fields admit they are struggling with. Getting clinical trials approved for ATS replacement pharmacotherapies is a challenge in itself, and there is a lot of work to be done to develop effective responses to these type of drugs.

All the experts I have worked with and met over many years admit we need to change the way we deal with drugs (pun intended) but until we acknowledge that prohibition has failed we cannot begin to think of a rational, evidence-based alternative. There are some sensible alternative models developed by some very smart people - and isolated cases such as Portugal have shown there is another way.

As for the cannabis gateway theory - most Australian kids who have tried cannabis have probably also tried Vegemite. Let's ban Vegemite too.

Thanks for your response 'Tassie', what is driving this prohibition policy? I have heard the US government puts pressure on other countries to hold some kind of prohibition model, is this correct and if so how do they get compliance?

[monoccular 17,642]

Mentioned Fisher and Swan but not Dustin Martin. Go figure.......

Buckley on radio saying she never rang him and there isn't one direct quote from anyone at COllingwood.

Good to see others getting the 'treatment'!!

Just for the record, please remind us all, including Caro, which chronically underacheiving club the troubled Martin plays for? Would that be the same club that has as I recall the first (?only) player suspended for drug related issues? Then please remind us with which club the aforesaid (so called) 'professional journalist' has longstanding associations? Surely it wouldn't be the very same club: no 'professional' could possibly allow personal issues cloud their work, could they? Especially if they had some personal family related vendetta running against perhaps a high ranking official now at another club but once at the first one. Edited December 2, 2012 by monoccular

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Robbie ,

Whilst you grew up in a monoculture ,which is fine ,

I grew up in the inner city.

People did all kinds of things and they still do .

There is no acceptance or majority/minority stance to be had on the issue.

Drugs are the second biggest industry in the world ,behind arms sales.

They are a fact of life and have been for thousands of years.

I'm not brainwashed into thinking it's ok or promoting drugs.

I dont think anyone is .

How close to the city do you have to be to be considered Inner city? I grew up in Northcote, which is pretty close and knocked around at the Croxton Park, not known for its "gentleness" and spent a lot of my early days in pubs in Fitzroy and Carlton.

That inner city enough for you?

Oh! you don't have to be brainwashed in to thinking drugs are ok you do that by your acceptance and use of them.

There was a certain culture years ago that generally accepted drugs and another that had no use for them and no inclination to use them.

Edited December 2, 2012 by RobbieF