Who is the one constant in all of this?

I assume you mean Schwab but it could also apply to Stynes or Lyon.

I for one am happy to finally be getting an insight into the rift between the players and the administration. Tanking makes sense as that divisive issue. Caroline Wilson is doing her job (and well). She has obviously spoken with at least one person the this 'vault' meeting, or is being backgrounded by someone with knowledge of the investigation - possibly with the idea of turning up the heat to get everyone feeling that the truth coming out is a foregone conclusion, and so spilling the beans. If you were a journalist you'd write the same story. She is not some idiot ex-footballer on SEN.

obviously, or maybe???

I assume you mean Schwab but it could also apply to Stynes or Lyon.

Right with the first but you could hardly include the other 2 as decision makers in the late 90's.

Nasty!!!!

We should let Caro run out her own rope as far as she wants. Let her make as many unfounded allegations, misquote's, bold assumptions stated as facts and back it up with hysteria and bluff. Then hang her with her own bloody noose that's called defamation. We could own The Age, which isn't worth much these days, but would still allow us to stop drivel being pressed into print and slowly but surely raise the standards of journalism again. She is a terrible excuse for a journalist and will be held to account!

Interestingly, after round 12 of 2007 "Caro" made an incredible statement on Footy Classified. It was simple and well informed, "Carlton will not win another game this season." With 10 weeks still to play in the year, Caro stated with as much certainty as the sun would rise in the morning that Carlton won't win. What the AFL should do is interview Caro to get her statement, then follow up with Brett Ratten and then Melbourne coah and former Carlton assistant Mark Riley to gather facts and roll-over on their now former employer. Afterwards, charge Caro for perjury for stating false fact and ban her from any AFL game for life.

Keep in mind that after the 2007 season, Tony Libratore came out against his former employer Carlton and stated his case for an investigation. Reinterview HIM! Mark Riley was rewarded for his win over Carlton in the Kreuzer cup with an Assured Assistant Coaches role with Carlton. Get to the bottom of THAT! Interview former players, because it was a game where the players were clearly complicit.

It's time to even the score Ladies and Gentleman. Gloves are off and that's right... "The truth hurts!"

Happy Birthday Queenie!!!

You are spot on - all fair minded journos and football supporters - much less Melbourne supporters - must scream it from rooftops:-

"To get to the bottom of the tanking issue - the AFL MUST get to the bottom of Carlton's victory in the Kreuzer Cup"

How can the AFL allow an employee of the Carlton football club to throw muck at another club for following the precedent Carlton itself created?

Right with the first but you could hardly include the other 2 as decision makers in the late 90's.

I was really more referring to the salary cap breaches - who do you think were benefiting from them?

Sorry, but despite being unsavoury, can someone please tell me what rule the club is meant to have broken if tanking was evident?

Also, I think it'd be incredibly ugly for the AFL to sanction us, remove picks, then we struggle and under their secret formula we get awarded priority picks a couple of seasons later...

A situation I bet they'd want to avoid.

Sorry, but despite being unsavoury, can someone please tell me what rule the club is meant to have broken if tanking was evident?

Also, I think it'd be incredibly ugly for the AFL to sanction us, remove picks, then we struggle and under their secret formula we get awarded priority picks a couple of seasons later...

A situation I bet they'd want to avoid.

It'd be under 'bringing the game into disrepute.' Furthermore, there is rules for individuals to not coerce others into attempting to lose games, but whether this rule can be expanded to cover a club is yet to be seen.

Have you seriously given me a dictionary definition of a slang word?

I am talking about a legal definition of what actions - that can substantiated and proven - encapsulate tanking in the AFL.

If you, or anyone, on here think that is slam dunk because the FD had a meeting surrounding the ramifications if we won 2 more games then you are kidding yourselves.

Tanking has to be narrow and deep otherwise actions that are in no way 'tanking' would be damned by association.

Besides just defining "tanking", you'd also need to find the rule that refers to "tanking" and how we have broken ii.

I doubt one exists.

It'd be under 'bringing the game into disrepute.' Furthermore, there is rules for individuals to not coerce others into attempting to lose games, but whether this rule can be expanded to cover a club is yet to be seen.

So... then defining "tanking" would serve no purpose?

I guess the act the club has committed to bring the game into disrepute must be defined and then proven to do that.

A mighty hard task, I'd say.

If anything, it's the media bringing the game into disrepute with the way they are twisting the truth...

... I have nothing to payback except for what I believe are people in charge who are bad for the club and need to be moved on ASAP, the only thing they've done is screwed the club that I passionately support. If that is an "agenda" so be it.

Unbelievable. And people think the Labour Party and their back room factions are bad ...

"But of course, it's all "for the good of the club"."

Poison.

am sure its been said elsewhere but the last six teams need a lottery for picks and the AFL admits tanking is impossible to police as coaches must always have the right to experiment with their teams which means they might get it wrong.

betting on anything with a cortex is pretty stupid, yet the AFL is wedded to income from gambling like much of the state.

do you think any punters will sue btw?

Also, we might have to throw a few administrators on the fire, that is our punishment. brer rabit comes to mind.

Im amazed the Herald Sun have taken a lot of pressure off us in todays edition. Never saw this coming.

Kreuzer Cup article, putting Carlton back under the pump

http://www.courierma...f-1226507852834

Brendan Fevola throwing Carlton under the bus, god bless him

http://www.courierma...f-1226507842026

"Dees never tanked" - article,on Jim Stynes, lots of quotes by the great man

http://www.courierma...o-1226507845894

Demetriou says they would investigate other clubs, not just MFC

http://www.courierma...6-1226507812966

Journalists don't usually reveal their sources but if there was a defamation action taken against the Age and Wilson I suggest the process of discovery might flush out the identity of her informants. The subplot to this saga could be revealed and might embarrass a few people whose obsessive hatred of Schwab, Stynes and Lyon caused them to go overboard and do damage to the club. It might also uncover the fact that some of the information supplied to journos has been embellished and twisted to suit their agenda.

Some interesting revelations will soon be forthcoming about these people.

What planet are you from?

Getting back to the substance of this thread, it was not all that long ago that Caroline Wilson was giving it to us about the lack of process employed by the club in appointing Neeld. It was aggressive and unreasonable. I recall arguing with you (and others) about this issue at the time, and about the worthiness of Mark Neeld.

Neeld, in my view, has been a superb appointment. That's all conveniently forgotten now, and the media has seemingly thought it time to enliven another anti-MFC angle, one which I had thought had been dealt with by the AFL several years ago.

And that's why I am concerned about what's happening here. There appears to be a continual anti-MFC agenda at play here.

To my mind, we have endured far too much as a club to roll over and lose players and picks that are, in my opinion, rightfully ours. I don't see how this is spin.

Would not be surprised at all if Caro's sources on the Neeld story are identical to those of her current line of stories.

Same agenda.

Same target.

I woke up yesterday morning and read this tweet from the Melbourne Age

Secrets from the 'vault': AFL uncovers details of Demons' secret meetings that led to tanking for early draft picks.

Now that's a bold statement and quite definitive but the problem is that on reading the five articles on the subject, I found speculation, innuendo, several flawed examples of logic (or rather lack thereof) and the obligatory failure to check facts but absolutely no "detail".

No detail whatsoever to confirm the allegation in this sordid little tweet but I did discover that it now is a crime for one club to hold meetings and discuss matters affecting the club. The ubiquitous blind Freddie would tell you that the tanking debate was a live issue at the club in 2009. We were reminded of it on a weekly basis and most supporters hated knowing that we were better off losing than winning.

Fortunately, the players (as poor as they were) look like being our salvation. They didn't need counsel from blind Freddie to know where our priorities lay but they have confirmed that there was no edict from on high to them to throw matches. That they apparently banded together at ¾ time with a determination to win the game (which they nearly did) should seal it.

There was no tanking as consistently defined by the AFL over the past decade.

You've been making statements as fact. You admit they're not.

Desist.

You're no less temperamental than your last incarnation.

I think you'll find my presumptions are the facts.

Amazing what a bit of knowledge and a capacity for logic can do.

Don't get ahead of yourself tiger.

Demetriou says they would investigate other clubs, not just MFC

http://www.courierma...6-1226507812966

If he's true to his word, I'm ready to help out by providing him with the details of a discussion I had with a then Carlton board member in 2007 about three weeks before the Kreuzer Cup game.

I have to add however, that although what was revealed to me indicated very clearly that Carlton was doing everything which Melbourne has been accused of in the current witch hunt against the club, it was not suggested that the Blues were sending their players out to lose either.

Nevertheless, for the sake of consistency and the integrity of the competition, I welcome an AFL investigation into whether, at various times in the past 15 years, the following clubs have tanked for draft position advantage - Carlton (on multiple occasions), Fremantle, Western Bulldogs, Hawthorn, Richmond, West Coast and the Giants this year.

Yeah I noticed that

Begs the question how does wilson know

Club leaking?

"we've traced the call and its coming from inside the house"

That well known line from 'Dial M for Murder' seems to resonate hrre.

The loose binding of half truths aside the real consistency through all this are the supposed johnny-on-the-spot type feeding of this and that.

Someone once peripheral to the club is abetting this media [censored]. Someone with an axe to grind has enlisted CW,known for her pathological hate of Schwab to carry out the killing.

There are some manifestly inadequate and pathetic types out there..

Im not sure it the AFL leaking as much as some elements still within that are fanning these flames.

I CAN see this going to court if reason and common sense dont prevail.

We cant alllow ourselves to be dogged and take the rap for a competition wide practice.

We may need recourse to natural justice and the ability to expose the henchmen.

Dont you dare cave Melbourne !!

Edited October 31, 201212 yr by belzebub59

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/trying-times-with-a-team-that-wasnt-very-good-20121031-28k86.html An encouraging article by Martin Flanagan in the The Age.

BTW: Is there an opposite to the 'Midas Touch'. If so we have it!

Or, is it just the Norm Smith Curse that just won't leave us alone!

We should let Caro run out her own rope as far as she wants. Let her make as many unfounded allegations, misquote's, bold assumptions stated as facts and back it up with hysteria and bluff. Then hang her with her own bloody noose that's called defamation. We could own The Age, which isn't worth much these days, but would still allow us to stop drivel being pressed into print and slowly but surely raise the standards of journalism again. She is a terrible excuse for a journalist and will be held to account!

Interestingly, after round 12 of 2007 "Caro" made an incredible statement on Footy Classified. It was simple and well informed, "Carlton will not win another game this season." With 10 weeks still to play in the year, Caro stated with as much certainty as the sun would rise in the morning that Carlton won't win. What the AFL should do is interview Caro to get her statement, then follow up with Brett Ratten and then Melbourne coah and former Carlton assistant Mark Riley to gather facts and roll-over on their now former employer. Afterwards, charge Caro for perjury for stating false fact and ban her from any AFL game for life.

Keep in mind that after the 2007 season, Tony Libratore came out against his former employer Carlton and stated his case for an investigation. Reinterview HIM! Mark Riley was rewarded for his win over Carlton in the Kreuzer cup with an Assured Assistant Coaches role with Carlton. Get to the bottom of THAT! Interview former players, because it was a game where the players were clearly complicit.

It's time to even the score Ladies and Gentleman. Gloves are off and that's right... "The truth hurts!"

Considering that half the articles written these days seem to be sourced from forum posts instead of through research, I love when people raise little facts like the Caro 2007 comment. It gets the right people thinking, and shows the hypocrisy of the AFL to launch an investigation into one club for something that has been occurring since priority picks came into existence something like 20 years ago.

I wonder what Lyon thinks of his work colleague