Sharrod Wellingham

[Scipio 5,868]

If Wellingham leaves Collingwood, it will be to West coast.

I think we will end up with Koby Stevens , Rodan and Pearce and Shannon Byrnes

Where the eff did Rodan pop up from? Love to watch him when he is on song but that's rare and he struggles to get up for games. Too much injury history.

[DeeZee 6,770]

Rodan, wants to come back home to Melbourne

[Scipio 5,868]

Rodan, wants to come back home to Melbourne

Can't see us making a play for him and I hope we don't. Has done virtually nothing the last two seasons.

[beelzebub 22,225]

Rodan, wants to come back home to Melbourne

thats nice for him

[syl 40]

Rodan, wants to come back home to Port Melbourne

FTFY

[brey9186 102]

Not according to his manager.

Exactly, why would he give up what he has in Melbourne just to live a bit

Closer to the folks! Offer him a decent coin, and he'll move, pretty simple!

[scarlett 247]

I think if we were interested in rodan it would be for a pick we wouldn't use (port either probably) or pick him up in the rookie draft, not that many clubs would be that keen on him I'd imagine.

[deejammin' 2,066]

Wellingham is a capable player but my gripe all along has been what we are prepared to offer him.

If he moves on I want it to be based largely (but not entirely) on opportunity.

Big dollar deals should be restricted to a marquee figure. Clark was the AA 200cm power forward - tick. Dom Tyson is a top three draftee with the potential to become a bona fide A-grade midfielder - tick. Put Wellingham alongside these two and it smacks of desperation - wallpaper over the cracks stuff.

I respect your opinion but I dissagree with you here. Clark was a big strong player who had a dissappointing season the year before we drafted him, came to Melbourne purely for the money and the fact we could make a trade happen. Had played an AA year in a position we weren't recruiting him for and was panned from several quarters as a bad move before he played a game, I'm glad we were right and it gives me great faith in the new coaching group, but we clearly overpaid in a risky way.

Dom Tyson is potential, our list is full of it, we haven't done too well trading off it the last few years. Wellingham is a premiership player in a team which has played strongly every season he has played with them, has more finals experience than our entire list put together and is a valuable player in one of the leading mid-fields in the comp. I love Mitch Clark, but Wellingham has already acheived far more as a footballer than Mitch. All good sides have older players to lead and help young players realise their potential. Young Dom Tyson in our side as it currently stands would be learning from Nathan Jones as the best performing most experienced leader with not much experience backing him up, It takes an incredible person to get to elite standard with little to no example to follow, and we have seen average players become great simply by following a strong example. This is why we need players like Wellingham.

Sydney overpaid for Mumford, but did they overpay McGlynn, Mattner, Shaw, Kennedy, and Richards, or did they just identify the role they could play and give them an opportunity ?

As I said, I'm all for trading, but do it smartly and if there's a big prize by all means "overpay", but don't pay silly dollars as was argued in this thread because we have to fill the cap anyway. Be smart about it. Become a good club that sets standards and makes smart decisions.

Mooney and Schwarz reiterated this point on SEN today when they both agreed that "big contracts" creates "discontent" among the playing group. There's a lot more thought needed than simply "we need mature players, let's get them". Don't be shallow thinkers.

As for value, you seem to argue that players have absolute values and absolute grades which determine them. The fact is in every market place multiple factors affect value. In this case the main things with Wellingham are:

1. Collingwood are hamstrung by a tight salary cap and having to overpay Cloke and a few other players to get them to stay. Who knows what they would offer Wellingham had Cloke and or Beams/Thomas left? My guess, enough to keep Wellingham. Melbourne has a loose salary cap becoming looser with the loss of 3-4 highly payed players, a front ended contract would have no-where near the impact on our cap as it would have on the pies (or several other contenders) we will not destroy our club or our culture by paying more than teams with tight caps, the fact we are a bad team means that the only way we can get players is to pay for them, we can't guarantee immediate success.

2. Teams must draft/trade to fill needs, Collingwood's current list has a multifaceted midfield which runs deep and has bright new talent coming through quickly to put pressure on current members. Wellingham's value to a team in this position is vastly different to Melbourne, who have one midfielder who proved himself this year and a bunch of potential, also our midfield is not multi-faceted, we have no quality players of Wellingham's type.

3. Collingwood has a strong experienced list with many leaders on every line who have played finals/premiership games. They will not be losing nearly as much in the way of experience and leadership as Melbourne would be gaining from a player like Wellingham.

4. Collingwood's players have every right to be arguing for more money, they have been consistantly successful both as a team and as individuals. The Pies have a Brownlow medalist, a Coleman medalist, a Norm Smith medalist and a team of premiership players, they can expect to be rewarded for their performance and it would put a dent in their team's morale if they felt underappreciated. Melbourne has been close to the worst team in the comp for 5 years, many of our players are already overpaid due to potential that is yet to be realised. Others have been overpaid as due to our dearth of experienced talent we have had to pay overs to keep them. Others are overpaid merely to meet the minimum cap! Melbourne's morale will gain more from having good players come to the club than it will from players feeling that we overpaid or that 'big contracts' are creating discontent, what have they done to earn that right? We can't flick a switch and undo our poor performance anymore than we can just put every player on our list on exactly what we think they are worth without risking losing all that we have.

As for the players you mentioned, Sydney overpaid for Shaw, who was a wreck and far from a guaranteed commodity, McGlynn who has exceeded himself, and had to pay a fair amount at the trade table and in contract for Kennedy, the only reason you are arguing they didn't overpay is their team success, if Melbourne had drafted any one of these players for the price Sydney paid I have very little doubt there would be similar argument about their worth on here. Shaw certainly wasn't a premiership player playing in one of the leagues top 4 midfields like Wellingham so I don't really think this example is relevant. Also I think Sydney identified these players as filling needed roles, just as Wellingham/Clark/Brynes would fill important vacant roles at Melbourne. I tend to think that getting the right players to play these roles is more important than whether we pay them the same amount as they would have earned at their previous club.

Also the swans have played in 12/14 finals series, were a popular choice as it afforded players less media scrutiny and a more comfortable lifestyle and was a matter of years from its last premiership, there were other elements in play in drafting all the Sydney players you mentioned and as a result they would have cost more to come to Melbourne/Victorian clubs. Leaving aside the fact Sydney pays their list over a million dollars more than every Victorian club as a result of 'living in Sydney allowance'...........

I think you have too little faith in our new FD, I don't see them going after players for so much that we ruin our cap, or that our playing list is malcontent. Rather I see them using our currect circumstances involving FA and our salary cap situation to leverage getting the best available players filling our needs. I'll say it again, Wellingham to Melbourne is a great move, whether we pay him a signing bonus or not.

[scarlett 247]

It's funny, I spend my time reading idiotic posts and usually don't bother commenting. I read an idiotic post with an idiotic dollar amount that I commented on. But now it was simply "algebraic" to make a point that I'm supposedly missing.

How convenient. Maybe the next time a poster makes a silly comment perhaps they're afforded the same 'latitude'.

Sydney overpaid for Mumford, but did they overpay McGlynn, Mattner, Shaw, Kennedy, and Richards, or did they just identify the role they could play and give them an opportunity ?

The Saints didn't win a flag, but they played in 3 GF's. Did they overpay Dempster, Schneider, Gram, Ray, and before them King and Gardner ? They didn't overpay one of them. They looked for opportunities and picked most of them up for late draft picks.

As I said, I'm all for trading, but do it smartly and if there's a big prize by all means "overpay", but don't pay silly dollars as was argued in this thread because we have to fill the cap anyway. Be smart about it. Become a good club that sets standards and makes smart decisions.

Mooney and Schwarz reiterated this point on SEN today when they both agreed that "big contracts" creates "discontent" among the playing group. There's a lot more thought needed than simply "we need mature players, let's get them". Don't be shallow thinkers.

these two were paid overs, hawks couldn't match what sydney offered, the cap was too tight, sydney identified this and just as these two were about to break into the 22 consistently swiped. The others you mentioned like richards shaw and mattner were struggling and not living up to expectations. Roo's offered a them a chance and a specific role in the team and they worked their asses off to make it count. Richmond have done similar with bringing in players to play roles, same as sydney some have worked some havent.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

So shall we agree to throw the kitchen sink at him? Something perhaps we should have done to Scott Thompson?

[Hannibal 5,814]

these two were paid overs, hawks couldn't match what sydney offered, the cap was too tight, sydney identified this and just as these two were about to break into the 22 consistently swiped. The others you mentioned like richards shaw and mattner were struggling and not living up to expectations. Roo's offered a them a chance and a specific role in the team and they worked their asses off to make it count. Richmond have done similar with bringing in players to play roles, same as sydney some have worked some havent.

Both of my Brothers know Kennedy's Father. My eldest Brother played at Hawthorn with him. They're p1ssed off at Clarkson to this day. Josh didn't want to leave, but was offered a 1 year contract and told he'd have minimal opportunities. He didn't leave for dollars.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I respect your opinion but I dissagree with you here. Clark was a big strong player who had a dissappointing season the year before we drafted him, came to Melbourne purely for the money and the fact we could make a trade happen. Had played an AA year in a position we weren't recruiting him for and was panned from several quarters as a bad move before he played a game, I'm glad we were right and it gives me great faith in the new coaching group, but we clearly overpaid in a risky way.

Dom Tyson is potential, our list is full of it, we haven't done too well trading off it the last few years. Wellingham is a premiership player in a team which has played strongly every season he has played with them, has more finals experience than our entire list put together and is a valuable player in one of the leading mid-fields in the comp. I love Mitch Clark, but Wellingham has already acheived far more as a footballer than Mitch. All good sides have older players to lead and help young players realise their potential. Young Dom Tyson in our side as it currently stands would be learning from Nathan Jones as the best performing most experienced leader with not much experience backing him up, It takes an incredible person to get to elite standard with little to no example to follow, and we have seen average players become great simply by following a strong example. This is why we need players like Wellingham.

As for value, you seem to argue that players have absolute values and absolute grades which determine them. The fact is in every market place multiple factors affect value. In this case the main things with Wellingham are:

1. Collingwood are hamstrung by a tight salary cap and having to overpay Cloke and a few other players to get them to stay. Who knows what they would offer Wellingham had Cloke and or Beams/Thomas left? My guess, enough to keep Wellingham. Melbourne has a loose salary cap becoming looser with the loss of 3-4 highly payed players, a front ended contract would have no-where near the impact on our cap as it would have on the pies (or several other contenders) we will not destroy our club or our culture by paying more than teams with tight caps, the fact we are a bad team means that the only way we can get players is to pay for them, we can't guarantee immediate success.

2. Teams must draft/trade to fill needs, Collingwood's current list has a multifaceted midfield which runs deep and has bright new talent coming through quickly to put pressure on current members. Wellingham's value to a team in this position is vastly different to Melbourne, who have one midfielder who proved himself this year and a bunch of potential, also our midfield is not multi-faceted, we have no quality players of Wellingham's type.

3. Collingwood has a strong experienced list with many leaders on every line who have played finals/premiership games. They will not be losing nearly as much in the way of experience and leadership as Melbourne would be gaining from a player like Wellingham.

4. Collingwood's players have every right to be arguing for more money, they have been consistantly successful both as a team and as individuals. The Pies have a Brownlow medalist, a Coleman medalist, a Norm Smith medalist and a team of premiership players, they can expect to be rewarded for their performance and it would put a dent in their team's morale if they felt underappreciated. Melbourne has been close to the worst team in the comp for 5 years, many of our players are already overpaid due to potential that is yet to be realised. Others have been overpaid as due to our dearth of experienced talent we have had to pay overs to keep them. Others are overpaid merely to meet the minimum cap! Melbourne's morale will gain more from having good players come to the club than it will from players feeling that we overpaid or that 'big contracts' are creating discontent, what have they done to earn that right? We can't flick a switch and undo our poor performance anymore than we can just put every player on our list on exactly what we think they are worth without risking losing all that we have.

As for the players you mentioned, Sydney overpaid for Shaw, who was a wreck and far from a guaranteed commodity, McGlynn who has exceeded himself, and had to pay a fair amount at the trade table and in contract for Kennedy, the only reason you are arguing they didn't overpay is their team success, if Melbourne had drafted any one of these players for the price Sydney paid I have very little doubt there would be similar argument about their worth on here. Shaw certainly wasn't a premiership player playing in one of the leagues top 4 midfields like Wellingham so I don't really think this example is relevant. Also I think Sydney identified these players as filling needed roles, just as Wellingham/Clark/Brynes would fill important vacant roles at Melbourne. I tend to think that getting the right players to play these roles is more important than whether we pay them the same amount as they would have earned at their previous club.

Also the swans have played in 12/14 finals series, were a popular choice as it afforded players less media scrutiny and a more comfortable lifestyle and was a matter of years from its last premiership, there were other elements in play in drafting all the Sydney players you mentioned and as a result they would have cost more to come to Melbourne/Victorian clubs. Leaving aside the fact Sydney pays their list over a million dollars more than every Victorian club as a result of 'living in Sydney allowance'...........

I think you have too little faith in our new FD, I don't see them going after players for so much that we ruin our cap, or that our playing list is malcontent. Rather I see them using our currect circumstances involving FA and our salary cap situation to leverage getting the best available players filling our needs. I'll say it again, Wellingham to Melbourne is a great move, whether we pay him a signing bonus or not.

It's too long to reply to and doesn't accurately assess my position in any way.

I'll only say... I'd be happy with Wellingham and suspect the club won't pay silly money for a B grader, which has only ever been my point. And of course we need to trade and bring in role players to suit. Who would suggest otherwise ? I do have every faith that the FD won't make the silly trades the dolts on here would.

Your post is p1ssing into the wind - in the wrong direction.

[scarlett 247]

Both of my Brothers know Kennedy's Father. My eldest Brother played at Hawthorn with him. They're p1ssed off at Clarkson to this day. Josh didn't want to leave, but was offered a 1 year contract and told he'd have minimal opportunities. He didn't leave for dollars.

my brother in-law is also friends with a currently listed hawthorne player who has stated that he was offered a spot in the swans team and more money better contract, hawthorne offered a lesser contract and couldn't afford anymore, i dont see where our versions are different, i stated he was paid overs at the swans which for a player not in the 22 and only offered a 1 year contract is what happened. Hawthorne didnt want to see either he nor Ben go, but thats football. if swans offered little more then the hawks i doubt he would of left interstate, when there were other victorian clubs circling, sydney paid more to get those two up there.

[Hannibal 5,814]

my brother in-law is also friends with a currently listed hawthorne player who has stated that he was offered a spot in the swans team and more money better contract, hawthorne offered a lesser contract and couldn't afford anymore, i dont see where our versions are different, i stated he was paid overs at the swans which for a player not in the 22 and only offered a 1 year contract is what happened. Hawthorne didnt want to see either he nor Ben go, but thats football. if swans offered little more then the hawks i doubt he would of left interstate, when there were other victorian clubs circling, sydney paid more to get those two up there.

Mate, when you're about to enter your third year at a club and they'll only give you a one year contract and state that you'll have limited opportunities and there's another club keen on you with a better contract it's patently obvious what you'll do. He was made to feel as though his future at the club was limited. If you think that's the equivalent of leaving because you're being paid overs you're as sharp as a bowling ball.

[scarlett 247]

Mate, when you're about to enter your third year at a club and they'll only give you a one year contract and state that you'll have limited opportunities and there's another club keen on you with a better contract it's patently obvious what you'll do. He was made to feel as though his future at the club was limited. If you think that's the equivalent of leaving because you're being paid overs you're as sharp as a bowling ball.

well done on the insult, you must feel proud. I clearly stated that other victorian clubs were interested and put their case forward, sydney paid more and offered a better contract then the other clubs, read what i wrote, they paid more then the other clubs offered more for both of them. keep your snide remarks to yourself, if your up for a discussion then talk if you want to continue with the insults over a keyboard then go for it. i wont be apart of it.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Gotta love the off season... splitting fractions , defining and redefining old age. Sometimes I think we ought to argue over fashion as well, the length of hems and shades of grey .

There is one word that, to me , sums up everything you need to get right.

BALANCE !

If you havent got it , evreything will be out of kilter and eventually fall over. Thats been our problem for years. We've not got the balance right.

its that which the FD is seeking to redress me thinks .

Didn't/Haven't got the balance right.

We didn't have the right people in power for quite a long time, making decisions for us. No wonder we made so many mistakes at footy dept level, because the top made the wrong calls first.

Have the wrong people at the top, & have the wrong decisions at every level.

[Nasher 33,107]

well done on the insult, you must feel proud. I clearly stated that other victorian clubs were interested and put their case forward, sydney paid more and offered a better contract then the other clubs, read what i wrote, they paid more then the other clubs offered more for both of them. keep your snide remarks to yourself, if your up for a discussion then talk if you want to continue with the insults over a keyboard then go for it. i wont be apart of it.

Your post(s) implied Kennedy left for money, and now that you've been challenged, you've changed your story. You've done exactly what BH reckons I did earlier in the thread

[scarlett 247]

Your post(s) implied Kennedy left for money, and now that you've been challenged, you've changed your story. You've done exactly what BH reckons I did earlier in the thread

he was offered more through sydney then he was through any other team, when did i change my story, Ben McGlynn was offered more money then he would of been on at hawthorne, and more then what he was offered at other rival victorian clubs, same as kennedy. from what i've been told kennedy and mcglynn got paid more at sydney and thats what i've said from the start, got offered more money and a role in the 22.

I replied to BH earlier saying that we were saying a similar thing but he felt the need to insult. i am willing to have a discussion.

[Sammbo 19]

it would suggest that ours is in fact better than the best midfield in the VFL.

So what???

[scarlett 247]

anyway i'd like to leave all that where it is, sorry for going off topic, what i'm thinking is if wellingham is thinking about going back home then we'd have to offer a better contract then the two w.a teams to get him to us (like i have been told sydney had to do to get their men).

depends what we'd have to pay and for how long, i think he could be probably our second best mid maybe third, if its front loaded in the first couple of years then it wont really be to bad because he would probably be worth more to us then others.

another player i'm keen to watch is moloney and how he goes at a different club next year. i would think wellingham would be on a similar wage to what moloney would be on next year, but i think he would add more then brent, although if brent returns to 2011 form then it will be a close call.

[deejammin' 2,066]

It's too long to reply to and doesn't accurately assess my position in any way.

I'll only say... I'd be happy with Wellingham and suspect the club won't pay silly money for a B grader, which has only ever been my point. And of course we need to trade and bring in role players to suit. Who would suggest otherwise ? I do have every faith that the FD won't make the silly trades the dolts on here would.

Your post is p1ssing into the wind - in the wrong direction.

Sorry to take so long to reply to this, I've been busy.

Anyway, I tried to respond to all of your arguments in this thread regarding A grader B grader, potential value, how other teams have built their lists and what our FD should do during this trade period regarding Wellingham. If you found it too long I'm sorry, I'll have to slowly eek out all that I think on any topic throughout the thread while insulting posters I disagree with like you do in future. Also you obviously missed my point in the second part of my post, which was statements like "B-grader" mean nothing as value is determined by different things at different clubs ( I gave you 4 examples). I was not attempting to "assess your point" but to assert my opinion in contrast to your numerous posts throughout this and other threads regarding Wellingham. If you feel I misrepresented you, how about responding to where I did rather than accusing me of pissing on myself. You make many good points on this forum, but your tendency to attack people who merely attempt to join in on a dialogue is counterproductive. If you don't want people to state their opinion in contrast or relation to yours why not go start a blog?

Edited September 30, 2012 by deejammin'

[w00dy 146]

http://mobile.news.com.au/sport/afl/magpies-push-to-front-of-q-as-it-appears-more-likely-sharrod-wellingham-will-head-west/story-fnelctok-1226484965788

It seems he's keen to head back West... Q stick perhaps going to Collingwood, not sure how they will afford him though?

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

No one leaves for more money...it all comes done to your values and wanting to become a one club player...

[Mono 454]

No one leaves for more money...it all comes done to your values and wanting to become a one club player...

Goddard says hello.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

No one leaves for more money...it all comes done to your values and wanting to become a one club player...

Your dreaming mate... Remember the exodus from Richmond to the Pies - even back in the 80s it was happening...