GWS would be kicking themselves as well, Wines is one out of the box.

Some clubs make errors and other clubs get lucky, wasn't our year last year, I think we got lucky this year with Salem and JKH though.

Oh FFS.

Did the recruitment of Salem, JKH, Hunt and Vince not tell you something about what Roosy wants?

And the quote says 'nearly not able to stop'. That nearly is Viney, McKenzie, Jones, Michie, Tyson and Aidan Riley.

I don't think you can include Tyson in that group. Certainly not from what I have seen of him, including a few attempts on friday.

I don't think you can include Tyson in that group. Certainly not from what I have seen of him, including a few attempts on friday.

He might not be the hardest player but he's got great potential as a clearance winner, if he's winning all the clearances then wines isn't.

He might not be the hardest player but he's got great potential as a clearance winner, if he's winning all the clearances then wines isn't.

I am happy we have him, only don't see him in the hardnut group, but certainly is a class player. His pass from the wing 45 metres to a Dee chest showed us that.

Anyone see Wines playing for Port Adelaide today?

Anyone see Wines playing for Port Adelaide today?

Played a bit. Been a sub. Nothing to glean from this match as Ebert, Boak, Cornes, Wingard and Hartlett aren't playing.

Anyone see Wines playing for Port Adelaide today?

Getting belted so I suspect he is not having much of a day.

Every club would love to have Wines.

I suspect they'd also love to have Toumpas. He will be a fine player. In due course.

Every club would love to have Wines.

I suspect they'd also love to have Toumpas. He will be a fine player. In due course.

I will bet any money that Toumpas will be a better player than Wines in 2 years time.

Played a bit. Been a sub. Nothing to glean from this match as Ebert, Boak, Cornes, Wingard and Hartlett aren't playing.

I switched off before half time and before he was subbed on but I see from the match stats that he finished with 21 disposals. He's certainly a ball magnet but not having seen most of the second half, I can't really add very much.

There was a twit pic just recently of Wines relaxing on the Murray water skiing with all his Port mates.

OMG -- they weren't also observed to be smiling were they??? What a shocking work ethic: imagine, players enjoying themselves!!

I will bet any money that Toumpas will be a better player than Wines in 2 years time.

Jeez, people need to take a few chill pills. Wines is a great crash and bash player with not elite skills who came in with a ready made body who is already at his peak. Toumpas has elite vision and skills but is going to be more of an outside link player delivering the ball to forwards in a way that can't be defended against. With the midfield we are developing I am more than happy with Toumpas over Wines. I'm happy for it to take a bit longer for him to develop. I'm very confident the end product will prove he was the right pick and has a more elite upside.

I would bet my bottom dollar Toumpas in 3 years time is in the best 15 players in the comp, as will Viney and Hogan, my question is how much better can Wines get, he's already very good but not elite

I would bet my bottom dollar Toumpas in 3 years time is in the best 15 players in the comp, as will Viney and Hogan, my question is how much better can Wines get, he's already very good but not elite

I would say Tom McDonald becoming a good kick of the football is more likely to happen than this.

I would bet my bottom dollar Toumpas in 3 years time is in the best 15 players in the comp, as will Viney and Hogan, my question is how much better can Wines get, he's already very good but not elite

I think that we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves, here

I would bet my bottom dollar Toumpas in 3 years time is in the best 15 players in the comp, as will Viney and Hogan, my question is how much better can Wines get, he's already very good but not elite

Wines is a bit like Daniel Rich, he was ready to go but not much upside. As for MFC having 3 players in the top 15 in the competition, we all wish.

I think Friday night showed us that good outside players are just as good as good inside players. Look at JKH we are raving about his ability to find a bit of space and run smartly and kick well.

Personally I think Toumpas has been a shade disappointing so far but you have to remember that 'so far' has been 1 year of what should still be a 12+ year career. He's not as fast or well rounded as I would've hoped. But he's still shown plenty for a young player. Wines has shown a lot but also isn't perfect. There can both end up good players and who really cares which one is better if they are both A graders.

Wines is a bit like Daniel Rich, he was ready to go but not much upside. As for MFC having 3 players in the top 15 in the competition, we all wish.

Daniel Rich is a bad player to pick for not much upside. Yeah he had a strong first year but he has all the talent to become a top midfielder at winning the ball and the best kick in the comp. He started to show it last year. Wines had a first year like Selwood and there's no reason I can see why he can't be as good as Selwood or Jobe Watson or Mundy or so on. Doesn't mean I think he will be but I don't see how anyone puts limitations on him. Putting limitations on Wines is just as bad as putting either limitations or outlandish statements on Toumpas.

The Bulldogs had the opportunity to pick him twice and I'm happy with Toumpas.

I would say Tom McDonald becoming a good kick of the football is more likely to happen than this.

Toumpas is very classy, three more years under Roos and Stone and i don't think it's unrealistic he will be an absolute gun, same with Viney who is miles ahead of him and has the attributes to keep improving, and we all know how promising Hogan is, i don't see how it's that unrealistic?

Toumpas is very classy, three more years under Roos and Stone and i don't think it's unrealistic he will be an absolute gun, same with Viney who is miles ahead of him and has the attributes to keep improving, and we all know how promising Hogan is, i don't see how it's that unrealistic?

Throw in Salem and Tyson along with Viney and Toumpas and we have our own Fab Four.

Daniel Rich is a bad player to pick for not much upside. Yeah he had a strong first year but he has all the talent to become a top midfielder at winning the ball and the best kick in the comp. He started to show it last year. Wines had a first year like Selwood and there's no reason I can see why he can't be as good as Selwood or Jobe Watson or Mundy or so on. Doesn't mean I think he will be but I don't see how anyone puts limitations on him. Putting limitations on Wines is just as bad as putting either limitations or outlandish statements on Toumpas.

Wines is a bit like Daniel Rich, he was ready to go but not much upside. As for MFC having 3 players in the top 15 in the competition, we all wish.

My point comparing Wines to Rich was that they were both mature bodies when drafted, the guys with bigger bodies tend to have less upside than the less mature guys who can build up - I here you saying Cale Morton/Lucas Cook etc- but do you remember Anthony Bannick ? pick 1 in the 1989 draft he dominated junior football was clearly the best junior footballer in Australia played 49 games for Richmond then delisted he was a man at 15 yo. I suspect that Toumpas & Salem won't have mens bodies until 21/22yo.so IMO may have more upside.

I love how people say guys like Wines and Rich dont have too much upside because they already physically ready. . Absolute no clue about football whatsoever.

I love how people say guys like Wines and Rich dont have too much upside because they already physically ready. . Absolute no clue about football whatsoever.

And that is your argument?

I love how people say guys like Wines and Rich dont have too much upside because they already physically ready. . Absolute no clue about football whatsoever.

I also note that 4 of your favorite players have never played an AFL match. I hope you are a better judge of players than of debate..