So let me getthis right...

He's already a LUMBERING ruckman... not an ATHLETIC ruckman... yet you think he won't be able to play into his 30s because why?

Because he'll lose his non-existent athleticism?

If he already gets by being a very solid consistent ruckman as he "lumbers around", what will change?

The only issue I see is injury, and I don't see any reason why we should believe he has chronic calf injuries at this stage.

Your logic just don't add up.

Jose. How is it that every time you post, I seem to agree with you practically to the letter?

Jamar could end up as a playing ruck coach. Worth the 3 deal in my opinion. Especially if we pick up Grundy

Jose. How is it that every time you post, I seem to agree with you practically to the letter?

Where's John Paul Young when you need him...

Jamar's going nowhere.

If we are to trade any of our ruckmen, it'll be Martin or Spencer seeking greater opportunities at somewhere like Geelong, Port Adelaide or GWS where they'd be in with a shot of landing the No 1 ruck role or Hawthorn or St. Kilda where they'd be guarenteed the No 2 ruckman spot.

If we get rid of Martin I'm going to take up Rocking Horse Sh!t collection. It will be more rewarding .

lol

I think I have your rhetoric and style pegged...

Say something that is only designed to raise ire and say it in the starkest of terms so that no-one can ignore their own raised ire.

Loses its punch if you do it too often though.

You wear out peoples ires and they just get tired and bored...

I couldn't care less, it was a mistake to re-sign Jamar to a 3 year deal.

I'm content to let things play out and re-visit this thread later down the track.

I mentioned weeks ago that Martin would be our number 1 ruckman when he came back into the side.

I'm of the opinion that Jamar is shot.

Stef Martin is a good ruckman with A LOT of upside.

Jamar was a very good ruckman for a year and is now on the slide.

I know who I'd rather going forward.

I know who I'd rather going forward.

I'm happy with both...

Where's John Paul Young when you need him...

What? Love is in the air? I think not.

Edited July 16, 201213 yr by Chook

Jose. How is it that every time you post, I seem to agree with you practically to the letter?

Ok, Ok, you guys win the right to room together next week in Darwin.......enjoy

I haven't checked my facts here as it's difficult to do on my phone, but as I stand it Davey and Jamar are t he only players eligible for the veterans list for the duration of Jamar's three year deal, and Davey will be gone by the end of the first one. Therefore with Jamar being a veteran, it means that all he's really costing us is one spot on the rookie list and half his pay in the salary cap. It's only as other players start becoming eligible for the veterans list that it may become an issue, but until then there's no downside to him being around. I don't know how the abolishment of the rookie list affects this though.

This is exactly why sensible clubs don't sign (almost) 29 year olds to 3 year contracts, unless they are truly elite (which Jamar certainly isn't).

Why ? To prevent threads such as this on a forum ?

Perhaps they do it because they recognise the strengths and weaknesses of their list and/or prevent other clubs from poaching him.

Edited July 16, 201213 yr by H_T

I haven't checked my facts here as it's difficult to do on my phone, but as I stand it Davey and Jamar are t he only players eligible for the veterans list for the duration of Jamar's three year deal, and Davey will be gone by the end of the first one. Therefore with Jamar being a veteran, it means that all he's really costing us is one spot on the rookie list and half his pay in the salary cap. It's only as other players start becoming eligible for the veterans list that it may become an issue, but until then there's no downside to him being around. I don't know how the abolishment of the rookie list affects this though.

Rivers will be a vet in 2013, and Davey the following year (10 years service).

The RL is still up in the air from what I have heard but I assume they will keep the two vets outside the primary list.

So Jamar would take up a spot on the VL for the entirety of his contract and Rivers would do the same, and Davey would be eligible from the start of his next contract - if there is one.

As for why Jamar isn't on there now, I believe the rule was changed for next season onwards about 10 years service AND being 30 or older - it is now simply 10 years service.

I haven't checked my facts here as it's difficult to do on my phone, but as I stand it Davey and Jamar are t he only players eligible for the veterans list for the duration of Jamar's three year deal, and Davey will be gone by the end of the first one. Therefore with Jamar being a veteran, it means that all he's really costing us is one spot on the rookie list and half his pay in the salary cap. It's only as other players start becoming eligible for the veterans list that it may become an issue, but until then there's no downside to him being around. I don't know how the abolishment of the rookie list affects this though.

Worth more on the trade table, Jamars shot.

But you do make a good point about him getting paid as a veteran.

I think we could package Jamar up with a pick to land a decent player.

Thanks rpfc. I didn't have it quite right but the premise holds. Jamar at worst costs us our last rookie player and at best nothing.

Worth more on the trade table, Jamars shot.

But you do make a good point about him getting paid as a veteran.

I think we could package Jamar up with a pick to land a decent player.

Only we can pay him as a vet though.

So that value of being able to effectively pay Jamar $100k less than he would normally comman of the cap - is all ours.

Thanks rpfc. I didn't have it quite right but the premise holds. Jamar at worst costs us our last rookie player and at best nothing.

Depends on whether Green is kept and whether you rate Rivers and whether you want Davey to have another contract but yeah, Jamar's value is certainly increased by vets status.

Only we can pay him as a vet though.

So that value of being able to effectively pay Jamar $100k less than he would normally comman of the cap - is all ours.

Yeah I realise that, I just think he is shot, im not going to comment on this thread anymore,

I think Ive said my bit in regards to Jamar.

I think Martin has already shown more in the past couple of games - than Jamar has shown all year.

Depends on whether Green is kept and whether you rate Rivers and whether you want Davey to have another contract but yeah, Jamar's value is certainly increased by vets status.

I'm assuming Green goes at the end of this year and Davey goes at the end of next. What happens with Rivers is immaterial as there are two outside senior list veteran spots, right?

I think we could package Jamar up with a pick to land a decent player.

Not if we've just signed him up for a new contract.

Not if we've just signed him up for a new contract.

Well put Maurie. But you can tell 'em, you just can't give 'em the brains to understand.

Yeah I realise that, I just think he is shot, im not going to comment on this thread anymore,

I think Ive said my bit in regards to Jamar.

I think Martin has already shown more in the past couple of games - than Jamar has shown all year.

Well, I can tell you don't want to comment on this thread anymore...

I mean your argument that Jamar is a liability has just been blown out of the water.

Not only does he look like great value being paid $100k less but he is either taking the place of a rookie or Pick 115 if the RL is scrapped.

And Martin is going to be very handy, but he has a task ahead of him to be a number one ruck in a good side which we all hope the Dees will be one day...

Worth more on the trade table, Jamars shot..

He's shot but he's got trade value, OK.

You must have been to tonatopia's school of logic.

This is a ridiculous thread. Do we not learn from our past mistakes. If we want to develop our younger ruckmen

we need an older one to help them. So what if in 3 years his time is almost up we need some experience on our

team. And perhaps he is a hard trainer and sets a good example at training for the younger players.

Ok... So either Jamar's shot.....if so has no trade value, after all, hes shot !!

Or he isnt.

If hes not shot then youd surely keep him as hes a good ruck.

This really isnt that hard. Unless challenged lol

The decision to sign Mark Jamar for a further three years was an error in my view and we should look to trade him at the end of the year. Rational:

• We are a better side with Stefan Martin in the ruck.
  
• Martin’s best position is the ruck and he is not a great marking forward.
  
• Mitch Clark is probably the perfect second ruck option.
  
• The game has changed against ruckmen that offer little around the ground and there is only room for one specialist ruckman.
  
• Max Gawn and Jack Fitzpatrick (and even possibly Jake Spencer) will hopefully come on.
  
• The best available player in the draft at the time of our pick may be Brodie Grundy.
  
• Jamar’s reoccurring calf injury is a worry.
  
• Clubs are often willing to over pay for ruckmen on the trade table.
  
• We have a slow midfield and this is exacerbated by Jamar’s lack of second efforts in the stoppages.
  
• We are unlikely to win a flag in the next three years.
  

On the flip side, I don’t really like trading loyal players and he will become a veteran over the course of the next three years which has advantages. However, on balance, this would be a good decision IMO.

Big Call Fat Tony.

Not possible now after signing? Jamar is a little overrated. Very slow. If you can arrange this we'll do it. Spencer and Gawny with back up from Martin and Clark IMO is best.

Worth more on the trade table, Jamars shot.

That's exactly the sort of talk that makes our culture so poor. People view players as comodities to be bought appreciated and sold at full value. His worth isn't just in his on-feild abilities, which are still pretty good IMO. What about his mentoring of Stef, Jake, and Max? His leadership to all the younger players. His example of perseverance to guys that are stuggling.

Jamar could've gone to about 2-3 other club who are in the hunt for the finals and may need a ready made ruckman, but he chose to be loyal. His the sort of guy that makes a culture at the club, Jonesy is another, Jordie, Grimes, and Trenners.

3 years perhaps a bit long, but I say good on the club for rewarding a loyal servant.