GWS (U-17's) Mini Draft

[dee-luded 2,959]

That's a good idea. As it is, i mean Essendon would be happy to take Daniher at pick 10...but Viney is real.... grey area. He's a vaguely pick 5,6, or 7 type player. Although there are apparently some recruiters who don't rate him top 10. The fact he's in the vicinity of our first pick makes GWS and GC feel compelled to nominate him despite the fact they probably don't rate him that high.

The bidding process was introduced to allow other clubs an opportunity to select another club's FS, but obviously this situation appears to be producing an abuse of that rule, simply to thwart an opponent rather than in pursuing the club's own list management objectives (assuming there is a bid by either GC or GWS).

Yep, w don't want a situation where you can pickup a James Hird with pick 90 something, But at the same time we don't want to be screwd by clubs forcing a club to pay overs for the kid they want.

That is just not right.

I really hope Vlad will have a quiet word to both new franchises to play straight & not #uck it up for everyone.

The game is in too much grey shhitt as it is atmo, re match reviews, & too many rotations etc,,, plus too many rule changes, to let the father son concept also be routed...

Lets just hope some fair play is seen to be delivered for once.

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

No you don't - Sheedy is not risking Whitfield by nominating Viney - we'll take him at 3 if necessary.

I don't agree that GWS will nominate Viney.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Jesse Hogan - the love child of Jesse Ventura and Hulk Hogan

Born 12 February 1995, 193cm, 91kg and plays for Claremont Colts

When Jack Watts came to Melbourne he weighed 82 kilos, but was 3 cm's taller. Joe Daniher is 201cm's and weighs 89 kilos. Jesse plays in the mould of Jonathan Browm, but has better pace. Jesse can play at CHF, CHB, or even have stints on the ball. You only have to look at the photo above to see the power in his legs and chest.

This from WA's talent manager: "Jesse is a powerful key forward/defender in the mould of Jonathan Brown. He's good overhead and very explosive off the mark for his size. We almost considered playing him in our under-18s team as a 16-year-old. He'd be in the top two or three players in the WAFL colts competition."

I love that not only is Hogan big, strong, aggressive, loves physical contact, is a great mark, but that he also has explosive pace for a big guy. That last asset will hold him in good stead at AFL level. Some people worry that a big player who dominates at underage level won't have the same advantages in the AFL, but if they have pace, courage in the air and love splitting packs they'll be a handful anywhere. Think of a more athletic Hurley, or a bigger Jack Darling. Hogan has grown 2 cm's in the last 12 months and I reckon will be 194 cm's by the time he debuts. 'Perth Now' have already listed him at 194 cm's in a recent article.

He'll hold down CHF in the AFL for 10 years. Imagine Clark, Hogan and Howe as the cornerstone of your forward-line for at least 5 years. Can I wait 1 season for Hogan while we're still in development mode ? Silly question. I've been tracking Viney since he was 11 at Ashburton.

I agree that we need mids, more mids and then mids, but with our great hand at this year's draft we can certainly accomplish most things if we get Viney in the second round. One of Toumpas, Mayes, O'Rourke, Wines, plus Viney, plus possibly a Kennedy, Garlett, Vlastuin, Simpson, Hrovat, or even Caddy at pick 13, not to mention picks in the third round +, means we can grab Hogan and still get quality midfield talent into the club.

You build premiership teams around two dominant key forwards like Clark and Hogan. Add a much better Trengove, a fitter Blease up on a wing with Viney, Nathan Jones, and two of the names above and we'll make inroads quickly.

Hogan is a must for me. In round 1, 2014 Hogan will be 19 and ready to go after a year developing with an AFL club. Matty Lloyd kicked 63 goals as a 19 year old. Jack Darling has played most of this year as a 19 year old and has kicked over 40 goals. Jonathan Brown kicked 38 goals from CHF as a 19 year old. Jesse Hogan doesn't have the same issues as Watts. In his first year at AFL level he'll have a bigger body than Watts will in his 6th year. Big, strong, powerful, courage, great mark, and pace.

Melbourne have to get this done.

[rpfc 28,477]

I don't see a downside.

Our involvement in getting the 2nd pick in the MD would also mean that Viney would already be earmarked at pick 27 or whatever it will be.

Would be more than happy to wait a year for talent.

[Brian Wilson 331]

Jesse Hogan - the love child of Jesse Ventura and Hulk Hogan

Born 12 February 1995, 193cm, 91kg and plays for Claremont Colts

When Jack Watts came to Melbourne he weighed 82 kilos, but was 3 cm's taller. Joe Daniher is 201cm's and weighs 89 kilos. Jesse plays in the mould of Jonathan Browm, but has better pace. Jesse can play at CHF, CHB, or even have stints on the ball. You only have to look at the photo above to see the power in his legs and chest.

This from WA's talent manager: "Jesse is a powerful key forward/defender in the mould of Jonathan Brown. He's good overhead and very explosive off the mark for his size. We almost considered playing him in our under-18s team as a 16-year-old. He'd be in the top two or three players in the WAFL colts competition."

I love that not only is Hogan big, strong, aggressive, loves physical contact, is a great mark, but that he also has explosive pace for a big guy. That last asset will hold him in good stead at AFL level. Some people worry that a big player who dominates at underage level won't have the same advantages in the AFL, but if they have pace, courage in the air and love splitting packs they'll be a handful anywhere. Think of a more athletic Hurley, or a bigger Jack Darling. Hogan has grown 2 cm's in the last 12 months and I reckon will be 194 cm's by the time he debuts. 'Perth Now' have already listed him at 194 cm's in a recent article.

He'll hold down CHF in the AFL for 10 years. Imagine Clark, Hogan and Howe as the cornerstone of your forward-line for at least 5 years. Can I wait 1 season for Hogan while we're still in development mode ? Silly question. I've been tracking Viney since he was 11 at Ashburton.

I agree that we need mids, more mids and then mids, but with our great hand at this year's draft we can certainly accomplish most things if we get Viney in the second round. One of Toumpas, Mayes, O'Rourke, Wines, plus Viney, plus possibly a Kennedy, Garlett, Vlastuin, Simpson, Hrovat, or even Caddy at pick 13, not to mention picks in the third round +, means we can grab Hogan and still get quality midfield talent into the club.

You build premiership teams around two dominant key forwards like Clark and Hogan. Add a much better Trengove, a fitter Blease up on a wing with Viney, Nathan Jones, and two of the names above and we'll make inroads quickly.

Hogan is a must for me. In round 1, 2014 Hogan will be 19 and ready to go after a year developing with an AFL club. Matty Lloyd kicked 63 goals as a 19 year old. Jack Darling has played most of this year as a 19 year old and has kicked over 40 goals. Jonathan Brown kicked 38 goals from CHF as a 19 year old. Jesse Hogan doesn't have the same issues as Watts. In his first year at AFL level he'll have a bigger body than Watts will in his 6th year. Big, strong, powerful, courage, great mark, and pace.

Melbourne have to get this done.

You've made some enormous claims about this kid (and I haven't seen him in the flesh). But wow, it half of what you say is true...

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

I want this kid. Simple, get it done MFC. 2014 with a new midfield and forward structure looks damn good.

[Deers 202]

Jesse Hogan - the love child of Jesse Ventura and Hulk Hogan

Born 12 February 1995, 193cm, 91kg and plays for Claremont Colts

When Jack Watts came to Melbourne he weighed 82 kilos, but was 3 cm's taller. Joe Daniher is 201cm's and weighs 89 kilos. Jesse plays in the mould of Jonathan Browm, but has better pace. Jesse can play at CHF, CHB, or even have stints on the ball. You only have to look at the photo above to see the power in his legs and chest.

This from WA's talent manager: "Jesse is a powerful key forward/defender in the mould of Jonathan Brown. He's good overhead and very explosive off the mark for his size. We almost considered playing him in our under-18s team as a 16-year-old. He'd be in the top two or three players in the WAFL colts competition."

I love that not only is Hogan big, strong, aggressive, loves physical contact, is a great mark, but that he also has explosive pace for a big guy. That last asset will hold him in good stead at AFL level. Some people worry that a big player who dominates at underage level won't have the same advantages in the AFL, but if they have pace, courage in the air and love splitting packs they'll be a handful anywhere. Think of a more athletic Hurley, or a bigger Jack Darling. Hogan has grown 2 cm's in the last 12 months and I reckon will be 194 cm's by the time he debuts. 'Perth Now' have already listed him at 194 cm's in a recent article.

He'll hold down CHF in the AFL for 10 years. Imagine Clark, Hogan and Howe as the cornerstone of your forward-line for at least 5 years. Can I wait 1 season for Hogan while we're still in development mode ? Silly question. I've been tracking Viney since he was 11 at Ashburton.

I agree that we need mids, more mids and then mids, but with our great hand at this year's draft we can certainly accomplish most things if we get Viney in the second round. One of Toumpas, Mayes, O'Rourke, Wines, plus Viney, plus possibly a Kennedy, Garlett, Vlastuin, Simpson, Hrovat, or even Caddy at pick 13, not to mention picks in the third round +, means we can grab Hogan and still get quality midfield talent into the club.

You build premiership teams around two dominant key forwards like Clark and Hogan. Add a much better Trengove, a fitter Blease up on a wing with Viney, Nathan Jones, and two of the names above and we'll make inroads quickly.

Hogan is a must for me. In round 1, 2014 Hogan will be 19 and ready to go after a year developing with an AFL club. Matty Lloyd kicked 63 goals as a 19 year old. Jack Darling has played most of this year as a 19 year old and has kicked over 40 goals. Jonathan Brown kicked 38 goals from CHF as a 19 year old. Jesse Hogan doesn't have the same issues as Watts. In his first year at AFL level he'll have a bigger body than Watts will in his 6th year. Big, strong, powerful, courage, great mark, and pace.

Melbourne have to get this done.

You've sold me a plot of land. Well done.

I did some searching last night and came across video grabs of Jesse in the Round 2 and Round 3 analysis of the U18 Championships.

His strong turn-of-foot meant he could gap his opponent in front vs. NSW / ACT. Against the stronger Vic Country, he beat them vertically instead.

I can see where his goal kicking raises doubt among some. He has a choppy run-up action but that can be resolved - theoretically - with twelve months of prep.

A big, strong, muscular type yet the way he carries that size suggests that he hasn't filled out yet.

They say Viney is a "done deal". Trading pick 3 for Hogan - leaving Viney to the second round - eliminates any guesswork, so I'm assuming that this will be the likely outcome.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Would pick 4 for Hogan be acceptable for the Giants?

[Guest Fergie]

Would pick 4 for Hogan be acceptable for the Giants?

I think the key is that we offer them pick 3, because that means they won't nominate Viney.

If we have to use pick 3 on Viney, we can't trade it to them.

Reportedly GC desperately want to trade pick 2 for the Jack Martin pick.

I doubt they'll risk nominating Viney and risk missing out.

But I'd really love to get BOTH minidraft pick - Martin and Hogan.

That would be bliss.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

I think the key is that we offer them pick 3, because that means they won't nominate Viney.

If we have to use pick 3 on Viney, we can't trade it to them.

Reportedly GC desperately want to trade pick 2 for the Jack Martin pick.

I doubt they'll risk nominating Viney and risk missing out.

But I'd really love to get BOTH minidraft pick - Martin and Hogan.

That would be bliss.

Can't see us getting both but you're right it would be bliss.

If we could keep 3, use 4 on Hogan and Viney in the 2nd round, that's a realistic bliss.

[az_tec 41]

https://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/145923/default.aspx

so they think we can get both now....

if no JV bid in play

[dazzledavey36 54,948]

why the hell would we get rid of pick 3 and 4 for this bloody mini draft. its a massive risk but this years draft is also too good to ignore! toumpas at pick 3 and wines/mayes at 4. please melbourne just hold on to those picks and pick up mids that are ready to go next year instead of waiting another year!

[Deers 202]

https://www.afl.com....23/default.aspx

so they think we can get both now....

if no JV bid in play

So, Gold Coast have cooled on the mini-draft and suddenly another (Victorian) midfielder enters the picture?

My amateur-grade sleuthing says Jack Martin doesn't want to leave W.A. and has made it very clear to everyone.

[olisik 4,060]

This Josh Kelly kid looks like a stick, if he turns sideways we probably cant see him. Definite pick up for MFC

[Guest King Cuthbertson]

why the hell would we get rid of pick 3 and 4 for this bloody mini draft. its a massive risk but this years draft is also too good to ignore! toumpas at pick 3 and wines/mayes at 4. please melbourne just hold on to those picks and pick up mids that are ready to go next year instead of waiting another year!

Umm yeah..we sort of need players now. Of course its just speculation, but if it were true colour me very surprised. I guess if we can secure Viney with the second round pick, we'll virtually be getting two 1st round selections in this draft anyway (13 & 26).

I mean, they would really have to be rating the MD prospects a fair bit higher than the likes of Toumpas, O'Rourke, Grundy, etc..I can understand the thinking behind the Jesse Hogan selection...but is this Josh Kelly kid really better than the other top prospects this year?? Anyone seen him play?

Also it complicates our efforts to secure VIney with a second rounder if GC hold onto pick 2..

Edited August 28, 2012 by King Cuthbertson

[olisik 4,060]

Doubt we'd give up both early picks. Might be a ploy re Viney.

Id have a fit if it was anything more then both our compo picks (4 & 13). This is a superdraft and the dees are playing with fire and considering using one of our top picks on a kid skinnier then morton, you have to be kidding me.

[furious d 464]

The articles author obviously doesn't read demonland. If he did he would know that the consensus on Jack Viney is that he's not worth a top 5 pick.

Or maybe, as I've said all along, this consensus only exists in the head of certain posters around here

[Guest King Cuthbertson]

The articles author obviously doesn't read demonland. If he did he would know that the consensus on Jack Viney is that he's not worth a top 5 pick.

Or maybe, as I've said all along, this consensus only exists in the head of certain posters around here

Well, if clubs rate him as a definite top 5 pick, i'd like to know what they're basing their judgements on. He missed most of the U18 championships, hasn't played TAC cup this year, and hasn't played much VFL..

He's a talent for sure, but i'd be taking comments like that with a grain of salt. It didn't mention that there are also a few recruiters who don't rate him as a top 10 pick.

[olisik 4,060]

Would also be a mistake to take this skinnier then morton kid Kelly over Martin when Martin is the one who has been hyped all year.

If we take a skinny kid over a WA kid again I will hit the fan. Would be the 2008 draft all over again.

[rpfc 28,477]

Would also be a mistake to take this skinnier then morton kid Kelly over Martin when Martin is the one who has been hyped all year.

If we take a skinny kid over a WA kid again I will hit the fan. Would be the 2008 draft all over again.

Yes, because that is the point of difference and the reason for the decision to take Watts...

Nevermind the different roles capable of being played, and the different skill set.

Edited August 28, 2012 by rpfc

[old55 23,602]

Award the flag to Hawthorn and let's get into it already!

[olisik 4,060]

Yes, because that is the point of difference and the reason for the decision to take Watts...

Nevermind the different roles capable of being played, and the different skill set.

Pretty sure that Natanui being a WA kid was a big factor in the decision.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Anyone who is judging Kelly purely from a photo is displaying shallow thinking. I've only seen him on Foxtel in the championships, but he's a clear talent. Pace, class, left foot. And when I say class, he has the type of class presently lacking from our list. I don't know where he'll end up, but he'll be a fine player wherever it is.

My initial reaction has been the same as others. I really want Hogan because big bodied aggressive key forwards with agility and talent are scarce, but the thought of giving up both early picks seems overkill. Ultimately though I'll back the club. They've seen the players on offer and are in the best position to judge.

I'm very patient at the moment - no choice. I want top shelf talent into the club so when we're next threatening we're not just making up the numbers. I can easily put up with two 17 year olds developing in our system for a year if it means that two-three years down the track we're watching stars. If I see tangible improvement next year and we're making genuine inroads in regards to fitness, strength and how we want to play I'll be happy. Adelaide drafted Dangerfield as a 17 year old and he didn't play in his first year, but I doubt they're complaining now. They've also got Crouch on their books for next year from last year's mini-draft.

So while I understand why supporters want players that can get on the oval next year I'll back the club and if they prefer two 17 year olds then I'll look forward to their debut in 2014. It all gets back to how they rate the 17 year olds versus what's on offer this year. I consider 2013 as another year of development and having two 17 year olds in your system is a strong advantage for when they're eligible to play. As I said, I've just got to back them on this.

[furious d 464]

Well, if clubs rate him as a definite top 5 pick, i'd like to know what they're basing their judgements on. He missed most of the U18 championships, hasn't played TAC cup this year, and hasn't played much VFL..

He's a talent for sure, but i'd be taking comments like that with a grain of salt. It didn't mention that there are also a few recruiters who don't rate him as a top 10 pick.

Some rate him top 5, some don't. That would be the exact definition of "no consensus."

[dee-luded 2,959]

Would also be a mistake to take this skinnier then morton kid Kelly over Martin when Martin is the one who has been hyped all year.

If we take a skinny kid over a WA kid again I will hit the fan. Would be the 2008 draft all over again.

By the way, what is your middle name again?