Toumpas v Stringer v Wines

[olisik 4,060]

Stringer is a risk at 3/4.

I would love Garlett around 12-13, exactly what we need.

My favourite out of the draft - other than Oliver Wines - is Ben Kennedy from SA.

Wines is one of my favourites to, sadly though I don't think his type is what we currently need. He is a rough inside mid. We already have plenty of these (Sylvia, Jones, Moloney, Magner, Couch, Viney).

I don't think it would be worth such a high pick to replace those guys, pick 12/13 maybe but definitely not pick 3 or 4.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think we have some good draft options as well. Our list management group will appreciate the great need to get it right with ready to go 'bolt ons' this time. Whilst the future under 17's sound exciting as they always do and as good as they obviously are, I'm not sure we have the luxury of waiting for them this year.

Understand BUT we need a mixture of Both. Toumpas, Wines, Stringer, & Jack sound ready to go. All will obviously take 2 Yrs to mature @ AFL games. this should suit our timeframe.

BUT we also need to draft for other to ripen after them, to keep the List fruition coming ontap.

What would you do, if Grundy or Whitfield slid to our pick?

[dee-luded 2,959]

Stringer is a risk at 3/4.

I would love Garlett around 12-13, exactly what we need.

My favourite out of the draft - other than Oliver Wines - is Ben Kennedy from SA.

So was Gazza Lyon after he broke his leg playing for us.

Strauss.

It could be as big a risk not to chase him with @ least one of our compo picks.

[olisik 4,060]

Understand BUT we need a mixture of Both. Toumpas, Wines, Stringer, & Jack sound ready to go. All will obviously take 2 Yrs to mature @ AFL games. this should suit our timeframe.

BUT we also need to draft for other to ripen after them, to keep the List fruition coming ontap.

What would you do, if Grundy or Whitfield slid to our pick?

I would take Whitfield, not Grundy.

[Dockett 32 1,239]

Understand BUT we need a mixture of Both. Toumpas, Wines, Stringer, & Jack sound ready to go. All will obviously take 2 Yrs to mature @ AFL games. this should suit our timeframe.

BUT we also need to draft for other to ripen after them, to keep the List fruition coming ontap.

What would you do, if Grundy or Whitfield slid to our pick?

Would be quite satisfied if Grundy ( Big Body who can play) or Whitfield slid to us absolutely no problem there. All I was saying ( or was trying to say) is that there seems to be, in addition to the two you mention, other good , close to ready to play, options for us to take this year Toumpas, Plowman, Stringer, Wines etc. IMO and its only a personal opinion, I hope we go with drafting 'for now' concept considering the above players and or "bolt on'" options like Caddy rather than trading away picks and waiting for the 17yo's to come on board and then develop into something. ( Whose to say this years 17 yo don't injure themselves in the interim? or that even better 17yo may appear next year?) Seems to me with Taggert, Tynan, Cook, Davis, Gawn our development squad is large enough already.

[whatwhat say what 22,948]

It's looking increasingly likely that Boak will stay, Cloke will stay, and Caddy will stay, plus Viney will end up available as our second round pick.

The only way I could see us giving up #4 is if it gave us access to one of the under 17 kids from WA. But I expect GC17 to try for one of them, and someone else to get the other by trading a player rather than another pick.

So the dream draft of Toumpas, Wines, Kennedy and Viney could come to fruition, presuming we hold onto our current parlous position.

[olisik 4,060]

Thing is if GC17 get a pick in mini-draft, we don't know who they will take. So if we get 2nd pick, we wont even know what we are going to get for our money.

Use the picks in the draft, Toumpas, Stringer, Garlett/Kennedy/Mayes and Viney is the go. Those 4 in our mid-field will turn it around and set us up for a decade

[Hannibal 5,814]

Wines is one of my favourites to, sadly though I don't think his type is what we currently need. He is a rough inside mid. We already have plenty of these (Sylvia, Jones, Moloney, Magner, Couch, Viney).

I don't think it would be worth such a high pick to replace those guys, pick 12/13 maybe but definitely not pick 3 or 4.

But it gets back to quality, it gets back to how highly a club rates them. Some people think that Brock McLean should be as good as Jobe Watson because they're both slow. But one reads the play exceptionally well, makes great decisions continuously, and executes really well, especially by hand.

Look at Sydney. They presently have Kennedy, Bolton, McVeigh, Jack, and Hannebery. All of these players win contested footy, make good decisions and execute well. Imo, there's plenty of room for Wines and Viney. In fact, they'd complement each other. Can you really have too many A grade grunt mids ? Contested footy and quality clearances win you games.

The problem is that we barely have an A grade mid, although Jones is knocking on the door. Sylvia played the best inside game I've seen him play on the weekend, which was great, but Magner, Couch and Moloney aren't the future. And Sylvia is better served as a powerful burst runner and finisher. He's more Sydney's O'Keefe.

I'm all for getting pace into the team, it's what we need, but there's plenty of room for a couple of A grade inside mids also. In fact, we need them.

[Deers 202]

Look at Sydney. They presently have Kennedy, Bolton, McVeigh, Jack, and Hannebery.

Off-topic: you haven't mentioned Craig Bird, who seems to get squeezed out of Sydney's midfield rotation and is out of contract at season's end.

Under-rated rover / tagger / forward who put in his first full pre-season this year. He would be a walk-up starter in our current 22.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Would be quite satisfied if Grundy ( Big Body who can play) or Whitfield slid to us absolutely no problem there. All I was saying ( or was trying to say) is that there seems to be, in addition to the two you mention, other good , close to ready to play, options for us to take this year Toumpas, Plowman, Stringer, Wines etc. IMO and its only a personal opinion, I hope we go with drafting 'for now' concept considering the above players and or "bolt on'" options like Caddy rather than trading away picks and waiting for the 17yo's to come on board and then develop into something. ( Whose to say this years 17 yo don't injure themselves in the interim? or that even better 17yo may appear next year?) Seems to me with Taggert, Tynan, Cook, Davis, Gawn our development squad is large enough already.

It's always deceptive, the development players we have on our list, as to whether they 'll continuing improving into topline AFL players.

Some may improve & then stop, & some may seem to not do much & then explode onto the scene. And then some will fall off the scene all together.

Many clubs in the past stopped the drafting of Youth, getting Impatient with the slowish nature of developing your own, [& payed the Penalty down the track, falling shy for talent at the final hurdle] {Saints, Dogs, Pies early 2000's}

I agree we need to add maturity, & I'm not against grabbing Boak this Year, BUT NOT with our first 2 picks. And I'm not against trading a player or 2 if we can get another pick inside P30.

I am on the bandwagon of picking up one or 2 like we did with magner, ie: look thru the preseason draft or a mature tall via The VFL, or other league.

But it gets back to quality, it gets back to how highly a club rates them. Some people think that Brock McLean should be as good as Jobe Watson because they're both slow. But one reads the play exceptionally well, makes great decisions continuously, and executes really well, especially by hand.

Look at Sydney. They presently have Kennedy, Bolton, McVeigh, Jack, and Hannebery. All of these players win contested footy, make good decisions and execute well. Imo, there's plenty of room for Wines and Viney. In fact, they'd complement each other. Can you really have too many A grade grunt mids ? Contested footy and quality clearances win you games.

The problem is that we barely have an A grade mid, although Jones is knocking on the door. Sylvia played the best inside game I've seen him play on the weekend, which was great, but Magner, Couch and Moloney aren't the future. And Sylvia is better served as a powerful burst runner and finisher. He's more Sydney's O'Keefe.

I'm all for getting pace into the team, it's what we need, but there's plenty of room for a couple of A grade inside mids also. In fact, we need them.

Absolutely agree, our current Mids have a long way to make up to a Mitchell type even now late in Mitchells career.

IMO the players we have picked up this year are so far only stopgaps.

Wines sounds good to me, complimented by a strong inside-out type, Toumpas/Stringer,,, Mayes has pace & skills,,, (Viney later), @ 13ish, a Kennedy, would love to pick him, a strong small type with ZIP... the full greyhound, no whippets.

Edited July 18, 2012 by dee-luded

[olisik 4,060]

Can rookies be traded? I think a good moneyball opportunity would be to trade off Magner

[Hannibal 5,814]

Off-topic: you haven't mentioned Craig Bird, who seems to get squeezed out of Sydney's midfield rotation and is out of contract at season's end.

Under-rated rover / tagger / forward who put in his first full pre-season this year. He would be a walk-up starter in our current 22.

He started the year really well, but, as you say, he can't quite get a main role in the midfield. He's played every game and I suspect a valued member of their team.

[Paul Gardner 6]

Stringer. Stringer, forget the rest.

[dee-luded 2,959]

The beauty of having three picks in the first 12 -13 is alot of clubs will not be able to risk a pick on a Stringer (returning from injury), Menzel (injury prone), Plowman (missed U18 champs) or Garlett (questionable attitude) when they only have one dart to throw. Assuming Viney goes second round and we retain all three picks give me Toumpas (clearly the best on what I saw), one of Mayes, Martin (MD), Wines, O'Rourke and then one of the questionables with our third.

What was Mayes like brfe? Would he be able to play an 'Inside' role going forward. I've heard he's got very good disposal skills.

[ashdemons22 235]

Stringer has the potential to be a Dustin Martin Type player in the guts. And can go foward

Also we must i mean must pick Dayle Garlett up around #13 he is going to be a star

[dee-luded 2,959]

Stringer has the potential to be a Dustin Martin Type player in the guts. And can go foward

Also we must i mean must pick Dayle Garlett up around #13 he is going to be a star

If you had to decide between Kennedy & Garlett who would you go with?

Would you mind, putting down they're respective strengths & weaknesses?

Could you please add Mayes & Stringer? How you see them?

[jayceebee31 761]

What was Mayes like brfe? Would he be able to play an 'Inside' role going forward. I've heard he's got very good disposal skills.

Yep but a very small tank- another Gys.

Edited July 17, 2012 by jayceebee31

[dee-luded 2,959]

Yep but a very small tank- another Gys.

Gys or Blease?

Is Gys known for his run & carry? I thought he was an inside link man?

Mayes seems to be known for his run pace line breaking & disposal? If he has a small tank I'm sure he'll slide from the 1st Rnd.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Yep but a very small tank- another Gys.

OK, back to Toumpas again.

[ashdemons22 235]

If you had to decide between Kennedy & Garlett who would you go with?

Would you mind, putting down they're respective strengths & weaknesses?

Could you please add Mayes & Stringer? How you see them?

Ok I believe Kennedy will go anywhere from 4 -15 in the draft, He is quite small in height but I have seen him live and he actually very solid and will fill out in no time. He is super quick and i love his spread, also he does go in hard for the ball, His kicking reminds me of Adam Maric and also the height factor worries me a little bit we all know how Maric has gone but seeing Dion Prestia last two years, I would go with him potentially at a pick 4 that's how much i like of him, where Garlett has FREAKISH skills he is your Cyril Riloi match winner wont star week in week out but will win you big games of footy, forget his endurance and off field issues the kid will be a star, i say grab him at pick #13 hoping he is still there.

Stringer is your typical country lad, i seen him play against the northern knights this week and he bagged a few. If he dint break his leg he would be fighting Whitfield for number 1 spot, he has awkward running style could be because of the break it is a bit Dane Swan like. I would take the risk and get him at pick #3

Mayes i really haven't seen much to comment on him, whats the story on him?

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,233]

What was Mayes like brfe? Would he be able to play an 'Inside' role going forward. I've heard he's got very good disposal skills.

He was more outside than inside but had excellent disposal, looked balanced in the contest and most importantly seemed to know when and how to push into space. Also really good height for a mid. Did not seem to have express speed but wasn't slow either.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,233]

Yep but a very small tank- another Gys.

I did not get the impression he had no tank. Will be keen to see his draft camp results.

[Carlos Danger 380]

Wines v Stringer v Toumpas?

It's Wines v Vlastuin v Hrovat for mine. Would be extremely happy with any of those 3.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Ok I believe Kennedy will go anywhere from 4 -15 in the draft, He is quite small in height but I have seen him live and he actually very solid and will fill out in no time. He is super quick and i love his spread, also he does go in hard for the ball, His kicking reminds me of Adam Maric and also the height factor worries me a little bit we all know how Maric has gone but seeing Dion Prestia last two years, I would go with him potentially at a pick 4 that's how much i like of him, where Garlett has FREAKISH skills he is your Cyril Riloi match winner wont star week in week out but will win you big games of footy, forget his endurance and off field issues the kid will be a star, i say grab him at pick #13 hoping he is still there.

Stringer is your typical country lad, i seen him play against the northern knights this week and he bagged a few. If he dint break his leg he would be fighting Whitfield for number 1 spot, he has awkward running style could be because of the break it is a bit Dane Swan like. I would take the risk and get him at pick #3

Mayes i really haven't seen much to comment on him, whats the story on him?

From what I've read he's a good runner leadup forward & from the goalsquare, who has gone inside mid recently. Supposedly elite kicking skills, is very good outside & if builds his inside game could be a gun. Is tall @ 6' 2"...

We need probably 2 class outsiders who can win contested footy with polished kicking. Toumpas/Stringer/Mayes/Kennedy,,, and 2 hard assed insiders. Wines, & 4th pick (2ndRnd) Jack...

Edited July 18, 2012 by dee-luded

[dtrinh 71]

Outside runner with pace ... Jimmy Toumpas (question mark is his hip injury) - if he has no probs, then obvious #3 pick

Inside mid ball accumulator ... Oliver Wines (speed over 5 metres is key)

Strong forward with midfield function (like a Pavlich model) ... Jake Stringer - how he ends TAC cup season. on 2010, under 16's, he is #1 material. Right now, not top 20 but watch in next 8-10 weeks.

This draft is CRITICAL to our FUTURE. No pressure

This sounds pretty good... definitely addresses all the needs that melbourne need at the moment. We really need to add class around the ball.

Jake stringer is interesting... if you look at his stats in the the under 18 championships they look very very average! TAC cup is a totally different level to under 18s championships vs afl level. If he can't perform then not sure how he will go in the AFL. I rekon if gartlett can slide to pick 13 that would be a bargain... from the sounds of it he is ozzing talent and under the mark neeld era i think discipline shouldn't be an issue. With toumpas, wines, gartlett and hopefully viney with our second rounder that could be our midfield for the next 10 years!