I think Billy deserves some defending here. Of the last 8 Premierships (Geelong x3, Collingwood, Hawthorn, West Coast, Sydney and Port Adelaide) only one of those could really be described as on the back of two dominant key forwards, with West Coast not having one at all. The common thread (with much fewer exceptions) is supremely talented and/or deep midfields.

Certainly up until the Brisbane Lions era it was far more common to share two dominant forwards, but even then, Brisbane, Essendon etc. all had great midfields. I think a sole gun forward is sufficent to get the job done if the midfield is good enough.

That's not to say two gun forwards isn't more desirable than one though!!

Thanks Radar. My point all along is that having one gun big forward (ie Clark - was on track to kick over 40 goals this season, and was being talked about for AA nomination), and the other being even a B-grader (ie Cook/Watts/Martin/Garland) can win you a premiership, providing you have the talent in the midfield. Boak would abslutely bolster our midfield, and would be cheaper than Cloke.

As you said, 2 gun forwards would be great, but they're useless as [censored] on a tomcat if we don't get the ball to them enough due to our poor midfield. While this will make Ben Hur laugh even harder, we can't forget that when we are seriously challenging for a flag, that Watts will have another 2+ seasons in to him.

Boak and 3rd Rd pick for pick 12 and Blease or Strauss

Interesting trade scenario, can you explain this one a bit more?

Keen to see how you came to the conclusion that this would be a good trade.

You have comprehension issues. Clearly when I mentioned Boak's age it was in reference to the amount of time he'd have left if Melbourne recruited him. I even said he'd have at least "7 very good years left, i.e. aged 24-30". How anyone could misread that paragraph is beyond me. Well done.

And definitely, not maybe.

Perhaps I have comprehension issues BH, but you definitely said "Boak is only 23 and played 100 games, so he's coming into his best years of footy." in the sentence immediately following those in which you had discussed Jones and Moloney, as if to use that (his age and games played) as a point of difference... my response was that Jones is only approximately 6 months older. Perhaps I'm not the only one with comprehension issues.

What is it that makes you feel you need to jump on everyone who has a differing opinion to yourself and place yourself as some sort of expert on all matters AFL? Clearly the personal issues you have are far greater than any comprehension issues I may have.

Edited June 28, 201213 yr by hardtack

Thanks Radar. My point all along is that having one gun big forward (ie Clark - was on track to kick over 40 goals this season, and was being talked about for AA nomination), and the other being even a B-grader (ie Cook/Watts/Martin/Garland) can win you a premiership, providing you have the talent in the midfield. Boak would abslutely bolster our midfield, and would be cheaper than Cloke.

As you said, 2 gun forwards would be great, but they're useless as [censored] on a tomcat if we don't get the ball to them enough due to our poor midfield. While this will make Ben Hur laugh even harder, we can't forget that when we are seriously challenging for a flag, that Watts will have another 2+ seasons in to him.

Billy, everyone knew what point you were making, so I really wouldn't sweat it. I would love to have Cloke on board so that we could have a two pronged attack in a similar vein to Hawthorn when Roughhead and Buddy were teaming so well... but if we don't get him, we still have Clark who in half a season has proven himself to be the real deal; we also have other options developing in Cook, Watts (who I have no doubt is in the back line to learn how good forwards operate), Williams (given time) as well as secondary options such as Garland, Rivers, Martin etc who can be swung into the forward line as required.

We need pace in our midfield as well as grunt... does Boak have that? What about Beams? Either would be a good get, no doubt, but I would rather take Cloke if he is available and see how some of our developing mids (including Viney) work out in the meantime. Neeld believes Howe has the makings of an elite midfielder (http://www.melbourne...x?newsid=138303), so who knows what he has in mind.

Edited June 28, 201213 yr by hardtack

What is it that makes you feel you need to jump on everyone who has a differing opinion to yourself and place yourself as some sort of expert on all matters AFL? Clearly the personal issues you have are far greater than any comprehension issues I may have.

BH's posting approach is entirely consistent with the attributes he admires in footballers.

The best scenario i have heard so far is the Pick 4 and 12 for Boak and 8 or so.

I think that pick 8 will still get use probably the 6th best mid in the draft and that is after Viney is already out so we really get about a top 5 mid from the draft and Viney and Boak and they get a top 5 pick and second pick at 12 sounds pretty fair to all imo.

Players still in the mix at 8 would be imo.

Whitfield, Viney, Grundy, Stringer, Toumpas, Wines, Vlastuin, Plowman

I would imagine one of the highlighted to be available at pick 8, thoughts? even maybe Stringer depending on his season coming back from the leg injury, although i imagine someone will take this risk on him at say 4-5

Interesting to read the other day that Wines when young played with JV when TV coached at Moama(?) and learnt his ferocious attack on the footy from JV setting the tone.

Can't remember where I read the article.

We should call JV "the template" if it wasn't such a bad nickname.

To suggest he's not worth pick 3 is laughable.

Teams will be very sore after facing us.

Interesting to read the other day that Wines when young played with JV when TV coached at Moama(?) and learnt his ferocious attack on the footy from JV setting the tone.

Can't remember where I read the article.

We should call JV "the template" if it wasn't such a bad nickname.

To suggest he's not worth pick 3 is laughable.

Teams will be very sore after facing us.

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=139314

What is it that makes you feel you need to jump on everyone who has a differing opinion to yourself and place yourself as some sort of expert on all matters AFL?

Look, I know what it says and I know how it reads.

And if I'm not mistaken I merely responded to you, who incorrectly accused me of "denigrating our own players". Hypocrite.

Wines and Viney has a nice ring to it. Could be a good vintage.

I think we need to balance our best 18, next year we will have the 4 Jacks, is there a James in the draft to add to James Magner/Sellar/Frawley, or any other name starting with J, Jeremy Howe, a little silly but with good drafting we could field a side with 9-10 players whise first name starts with J, nas to be a record. Jeremy Cameron would fit in well.

Edited June 28, 201213 yr by drdrake

Pick 12 for Boak

With this offer and the way Carlton are travelling, forget it.

Get Wines! Boak isnt worth pick 4.

Wines looks a safe bet anyway.

I'm with Ben Hur, we need another key forward to play alongside Clark. Problem is we need a better midfield first. Can Cook become the second forward, I doubt it but Darling could have.(sorry to go on about Darling but geez what a glaring error) Our midfield remains our achilles heel, it must be repaired first. Trengove, Jones, Viney, Grimes maybe Boak still needs someone of the quality of Martin or Cotchin to take it forward

David Schwartz 98% sure Cloke has signed with the Pies.

I'm with Ben Hur, we need another key forward to play alongside Clark. Problem is we need a better midfield first. Can Cook become the second forward, I doubt it but Darling could have.(sorry to go on about Darling but geez what a glaring error) Our midfield remains our achilles heel, it must be repaired first. Trengove, Jones, Viney, Grimes maybe Boak still needs someone of the quality of Martin or Cotchin to take it forward

Sorry to go on but Cook will be it, and Darling is playing ok now, but i am still happy to put my name down for Cook over a career span

You're more concerned with personal agendas than meaningful footy issues ?

FIWMTH

Of course not mate, just attempting some humour. However Cloak and beams would be great gets IMO.

I think Billy deserves some defending here. Of the last 8 Premierships (Geelong x3, Collingwood, Hawthorn, West Coast, Sydney and Port Adelaide) only one of those could really be described as on the back of two dominant key forwards, with West Coast not having one at all. The common thread (with much fewer exceptions) is supremely talented and/or deep midfields.

Certainly up until the Brisbane Lions era it was far more common to share two dominant forwards, but even then, Brisbane, Essendon etc. all had great midfields. I think a sole gun forward is sufficent to get the job done if the midfield is good enough.

That's not to say two gun forwards isn't more desirable than one though!!

IMO a definition of a matchwinner is not a part time matchwinner, but more consistently dominating games as a Key Personnel. A younger Johnathon Brown, G'Ablett snr, Lockett, Carey...

With Clarke our Power forward showing plenty for our future, IMO we only need to find another Key Tall Forward to compliment Clarke.

Tommy McDonald, Cook, (Hogan), then add to that, another quick agile skilled flanker/pocket player, (Watts) + (Howe), plus some quality smalls, & IMO, away we go...

David Schwartz 98% sure Cloke has signed with the Pies.

Yep - heard that too.

4 years but it has cost the Pies a sh%t load.

Look, I know what it says and I know how it reads.

Yes, you know what it says and you know how it reads... because you wrote it. I read it differently because you put it all together in a very poorly constructed paragraph.

And if I'm not mistaken I merely responded to you, who incorrectly accused me of "denigrating our own players". Hypocrite.

I said: "I'm not arguing for or against getting Boak (although my preference would be for Beams), but please don't denigrate our players at his expense."... hardly an accusation, but rather a gentle request based on my interpretation of your sentence (for which I later recanted anyway)... what you consider "merely responding" is quite often unnecessarily aggressive... and I don't mean your responses to me only.

I'm with Ben Hur, we need another key forward to play alongside Clark. Problem is we need a better midfield first. Can Cook become the second forward, I doubt it but Darling could have.(sorry to go on about Darling but geez what a glaring error) Our midfield remains our achilles heel, it must be repaired first. Trengove, Jones, Viney, Grimes maybe Boak still needs someone of the quality of Martin or Cotchin to take it forward

If we used our first comp pick for an U-17, we could take Hogan, really highly touted Key Forward.

We really need to workout how to get JV with a 2nd Rnd pick.

Trouble is GWS & GCSuns don't want us to get too strong, as we'll be in the same timeframe Window .

Travis Cloke on The Footy Show, one-on-one with Garry Lyon.

Said that they're not 'quite there yet' (Collingwood's offer)

Admitted that Freo had an offer on the table.

Very nervous, sounded somewhat mercenary, didn't say the 'team' things.

Gone.

What we do is get Jack to come out and say that even if gws or gc take him he wil leave after minimum contract ends and come to the demons.

Buckley did it

Edited June 28, 201213 yr by Red&BlueBlood

What we do is get Jack to come out and say that even if gws or gc take him he wil leave after minimum contract ends and come to the demons.

Buckley did it

I'm hearing that is the strategy.

Yes, you know what it says and you know how it reads... because you wrote it. I read it differently because you put it all together in a very poorly constructed paragraph.

I said: "I'm not arguing for or against getting Boak (although my preference would be for Beams), but please don't denigrate our players at his expense."... hardly an accusation, but rather a gentle request based on my interpretation of your sentence (for which I later recanted anyway)... what you consider "merely responding" is quite often unnecessarily aggressive... and I don't mean your responses to me only.

Hoo rah! its about time someone other than me put this self righteous character ben hur back in his box. Seems to think hes right an awful lot of the time and cant handle others having differing opinions. Must be an interesting character to meet i must say.