New recruiting manager

[Sir Why You Little 34,493]

Getting back to the actual thread topic...

And all that no-one is going into any depth on. Why does Todd Viney as interim recruiment head instil so much angst?

It's an important draft, no doubt. But what does he bring that is not sufficient to the role? What did Prendergast bring that was so irreplaceable? If we had the second in charge from Collingwood in place, would that be good enough? Remember, he has never taken charge in November either...

These are the exact Questions that we all want answers to.....WE NEED THE BEST PEOPLE...Take a look at our current state.

This is ROCK BOTTOM.

IT IS HERE.

[rjay 23,922]

Getting back to the actual thread topic...

And all that no-one is going into any depth on. Why does Todd Viney as interim recruiment head instil so much angst?

It's an important draft, no doubt. But what does he bring that is not sufficient to the role? What did Prendergast bring that was so irreplaceable? If we had the second in charge from Collingwood in place, would that be good enough? Remember, he has never taken charge in November either...

Trying to get there but I understand the frustration as I'm sure you do RPFC.

I think we have a unique opportunity to pick up Rendall at least in the short term and should use it. The only real problem with with Todd is that I don't see that he has a total overview of recruits Australia wide over a period of time (from say early unders level) that would allow him to plot their development. He will have a fair idea of the Vic kids and whilst he would know some of the SA kids he hasn't been involved in that system for a few years now and has missed crucial time in the development of those kids and new ones coming through. Yes, we have scouts out and they will give good input but a someone with a real feel of the landscape over a period of time would be an invaluable addition to work with Todd.

[rpfc 27,476]

These are the exact Questions that we all want answers to.....WE NEED THE BEST PEOPLE...Take a look at our current state.

This is ROCK BOTTOM.

IT IS HERE.

AND WE ARE TRYING TO DISCUSS IT WITH YOU.

Now if we can just calm down and not clam up...

Todd Viney has been many things since moving into coaching with Hawthorn. Barry Prendergast was an opposition scout before he moved into the head recruitment position.

Now, rjay has given this:

I think we have a unique opportunity to pick up Rendall at least in the short term and should use it. The only real problem with with Todd is that I don't see that he has a total overview of recruits Australia wide over a period of time (from say early unders level) that would allow him to plot their development. He will have a fair idea of the Vic kids and whilst he would know some of the SA kids he hasn't been involved in that system for a few years now and has missed crucial time in the development of those kids and new ones coming through. Yes, we have scouts out and they will give good input but a someone with a real feel of the landscape over a period of time would be an invaluable addition to work with Todd.

A valid concern.

My view is that I don't think any recruiting head is going to be up on the minutiae of any state or league. They are there to collate information, look at tapes, do interviews and such, they are not the boots on the ground, they are the eyes and brain that help to make the final judgement, and I am struggling to see why Todd Viney is such a disaster in this role.

Grabbing Rendell for the next 6 months will certainly help things but I just don't see the massive disconnect that others see on this. Do some people have the notion that Prendergast was up there with tapes he made himself? With trips he went alone on?

It's a management role, an important one, but one that Todd Viney can step across into in my opinion.

[Tatu 416]

He doesn't want to give an opponent a look in. The other part of it is his extreme arrogance. He'd see it as an F off aimed at us.

It all might back fire on eddiewood......all the screamings going to be funny, when Taylor comes across arm in arm with Cloke.....might pay off for us to have someone on the inside...

[Guest José Mourinho]

Jose im on this site to read what the member's think and all you ever do is put other poster's down because you are blind or just rude.

You think you know everything and the club is flying that tell's me you are blind because members have every right to ask questions of our CEO.

3 year's ago our CEO said we were at base camp and on the weekend on radio the same CEO said the same thing? What happen in the last 3 years Cam.

We are sitting 18th below GWS as a member that's a joke.

Stop putting poster's down and stop thinking the sun shine's from you know were.

The black cloud is still above the MFC like it or not.

Sorry BJ, but can you point out where I put WYL down?

I think it was a pretty accurate appraisal. I got him pegged.

Then I just asked a few considered questions.

If anything, you're guilty of an attack on me by making false accusations.

Once again, you're going off on tangents about black clouds over the club and ladder position.

These things are irrelevant to the ability of TV to fill this role, which is the subject of this thread.

You may say it's more important that we have someone capable because of our current situation, but I disagree.

If we were 10th it'd be vitally important to do well in the draft so that we could push for the 8.

If we were in the 8, it'd be vitally important so we can push into the top 4.

If we were top 4, it'd be vitally important for nudging us into serious flag contention.

And if we were a flag contender it'd be vitally important for maintaining that status and extending "the window."

[Sir Why You Little 34,493]

AND WE ARE TRYING TO DISCUSS IT WITH YOU.

Now if we can just calm down and not clam up...

Todd Viney has been many things since moving into coaching with Hawthorn. Barry Prendergast was an opposition scout before he moved into the head recruitment position.

Now, rjay has given this:

A valid concern.

My view is that I don't think any recruiting head is going to be up on the minutiae of any state or league. They are there to collate information, look at tapes, do interviews and such, they are not the boots on the ground, they are the eyes and brain that help to make the final judgement, and I am struggling to see why Todd Viney is such a disaster in this role.

Grabbing Rendell for the next 6 months will certainly help things but I just don't see the massive disconnect that others see on this. Do some people have the notion that Prendergast was up there with tapes he made himself? With trips he went alone on?

It's a management role, an important one, but one that Todd Viney can step across into in my opinion.

That is your opinion. Fine.

I wish to hear it from the club, along with an explanation as to why we are still at Base Camp or "Richmond 2010"

You know as much as i do rpfc, please do not patronize. I respect your posts.

[Sir Why You Little 34,493]

Sorry BJ, but can you point out where I put WYL down?

I think it was a pretty accurate appraisal. I got him pegged.

Then I just asked a few considered questions.

If anything, you're guilty of an attack on me by making false accusations.

Once again, you're going off on tangents about black clouds over the club and ladder position.

These things are irrelevant to the ability of TV to fill this role, which is the subject of this thread.

You may say it's more important that we have someone capable because of our current situation, but I disagree.

If we were 10th it'd be vitally important to do well in the draft so that we could push for the 8.

If we were in the 8, it'd be vitally important so we can push into the top 4.

If we were top 4, it'd be vitally important for nudging us into serious flag contention.

And if we were a flag contender it'd be vitally important for maintaining that status and extending "the window."

Excuse me Jose...You have me Pegged? Do go on..Please. I have put up with Rhino for 7 years being rude, so i am ready.

[rpfc 27,476]

That is your opinion. Fine.

I wish to hear it from the club, along with an explanation as to why we are still at Base Camp or "Richmond 2010"

You know as much as i do rpfc, please do not patronize. I respect your posts.

Patronising? I don't know about that, I think I have been behaving myself...

You have been increadibly sensationalist of late, and the post I replied to was a great example of that: We are at rock bottom as a club? And we are there because we have stolen the second in charge of recruiting at Collingwood and are awaiting clearance for a year? That's why the club is at rock bottom?

This doesn't make sense to me.

The team may be at 'rock bottom' but the club's poaching of a staff member from Collingwood and our subsequent requirement to have Viney move into the role on an interim basis is hardly a sign of any rocks beneath our feet.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Weak character isn't a card.

It's just my opinion.

I only get disheartened by having to listen to supporters stick their boot into the club, or complain about things which are either inconsequential, or that they misunderstand completely.

Re: Viney,

do you really not think that recruitment of young players, and then managing the development of those same young players once they get to the club, is not intrinsically interlinked?

I'd think it would give someone the perfect grounding to understand and identify what aspects of a player's game can easily be developed, is difficult to develop, what talents are common among players, and which are incredibly rare and valuable.

Throw in the fact Viney will have a long standing intimate knowledge of players in SA and VIC through watching his son come up the ranks playing with them.

I repeat from a previous post: if anything, I think TV is well overqualified for the head recruiter position.

With respect, Jose, you're a blue sky junkie. Under another guise last year you wouldn't hear a bad word about Bailey, when in reality, he wasn't the right man to take this club forward.

I completely understand some Melbourne supporters angst at what has been going on at the club. When one considers that Leoncelli wasn't replaced; the club losing its way when Stynes became ill; the club once again having to revert to Lyon to help orchestrate a coach; the club being stone motherless last while a club we all thought we were ahead of is showing real signs of improvement; the failure to develop a plethora of draft picks, including a handful of top 5 picks; and the embarrassing handling of our current CEO it's little wonder that many feel you need the patience of Jobe to keep getting hit in the solar plexus by this club.

Make no mistake, this up-coming draft is astonishingly important. Despite some supporters view that we can't recruit properly, it's a must that we make the most of our strong hand. I genuinely believe that our medium term outlook hinges on it. And if we do recruit well we can turn things around relatively quickly. Richmond notoriously stuffed up draft after draft, but even they have got quality players with Deledio, Cotchin, Riewoldt and Martin because they were constantly at the well. Hawthorn have stuffed up plenty of drafts. Think of Dowler, Muston, and Thorpe, but they too got a few right. Stars are what makes teams become successful - plus a good defensive game-plan that we're learning. We have a chance to get a couple of stars into our club. Clearly there's no guarantee, but we must be a decent chance considering the picks that will be at our disposal. Which leads me to Viney ?

I'm not quite the blue sky junkie, but I'll place my faith in the club - again - to make the right decisions with regards to our recruiting set-up, but I can completely undertsand the concerns of some others. I really like Todd Viney and reckon he's a switched on footy person. I doubt he'd accept the role if he thought he'd compromise the club he loves. But it's critical they make the right choices. As stated, we could really change the fortunes of this club. And just because some of you have heard that comment before with regards to other drafts doesn't invalidate this next opportunity. We just have to nail it.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[Dr. Gonzo 22,415]

Weak character isn't a card.

It's just my opinion.

I only get disheartened by having to listen to supporters stick their boot into the club, or complain about things which are either inconsequential, or that they misunderstand completely.

Think what you want, but of course it is "pulling the weak character card". Any time anybody questions the club, voices their concern or relays that they are disheartened they have "weak character". It is not sticking the boot into the club it is raising valid concerns that we as long-term (some much longer than me) members have every right to raise. If you don't want to listen to supporters critique the club or ask questions then I'd suggest you're probably on the wrong website as supporters of any club will always have queries or cause for concern about something or other.

Re: Viney,

do you really not think that recruitment of young players, and then managing the development of those same young players once they get to the club, is not intrinsically interlinked?

I'd think it would give someone the perfect grounding to understand and identify what aspects of a player's game can easily be developed, is difficult to develop, what talents are common among players, and which are incredibly rare and valuable.

Throw in the fact Viney will have a long standing intimate knowledge of players in SA and VIC through watching his son come up the ranks playing with them.

I repeat from a previous post: if anything, I think TV is well overqualified for the head recruiter position.

No-one is saying the board has stuffed up and that Viney is hopeless and shouldn't be put in the role. We have merely raised our eyebrows at the appointment considering it was unexpected, he has limited to no experience in the role, it is only a short-term, stop-gap appointment and it could be seen that we only got him on board to get his son's signature anyway.

None or all of these things may be true, I don't know. But it is fair enough to raise questions about the appointment, however you are the one who has turned it into something bigger than it is for continually harassing anyone who dares question the appointment. I have not said the club is wrong on this but there are legitimate concerns which I don't know the answer to but which the club will be held accountable for if the decision turns out to be the incorrect one. Considering where we are at and the off-field debacle that was 2011 supporters have every right to query the current board & CEO and their appointments.

[rpfc 27,476]

I just think that with the Tennage Lottery Draft of the AFL © being such an inexact science that having someone like Viney with a larger say may end up being beneficial to how we recruit. And I am harking back to Dustin Martin and our reportedly astounding lack of interest...

I do agree that we have to get these picks right, I do know that we will get one of those picks right; wherever Jack Viney goes he will be worth the investment.

[Sir Why You Little 34,493]

Patronising? I don't know about that, I think I have been behaving myself...

You have been increadibly sensationalist of late, and the post I replied to was a great example of that: We are at rock bottom as a club? And we are there because we have stolen the second in charge of recruiting at Collingwood and are awaiting clearance for a year? That's why the club is at rock bottom?

This doesn't make sense to me.

The team may be at 'rock bottom' but the club's poaching of a staff member from Collingwood and our subsequent requirement to have Viney move into the role on an interim basis is hardly a sign of any rocks beneath our feet.

Yes the team is at Rock Bottom, and after 5 years that is no where near good enough.

I fail to see what is so sensationalist about that.

The club should survive but they are pushing their luck Hard.

[PaulRB 5,924]

These are the exact Questions that we all want answers to.....WE NEED THE BEST PEOPLE...Take a look at our current state.

This is ROCK BOTTOM.

IT IS HERE.

Thats Optimistic. I'd have thought "ROCK BOTTOM" would have to include losing to GWS and GC...

Edited May 29, 2012 by PaulRB

[Sir Why You Little 34,493]

Thats Optimistic. I'd have thought "ROCK BOTTOM" would have to include losing to GWS and GC...

Yes i am an optimist. But it is becoming harder!!!

[demoniac 1,243]

Yes the team is at Rock Bottom, and after 5 years that is no where near good enough.

I fail to see what is so sensationalist about that.

The club should survive but they are pushing their luck Hard.

I think Cam Mooney has summed us up well on SEN. Bailey played an attacking game plan not resilient enough to stand up in finals. Neeld has to go back to basics and instill a defensive game plan and ethos and an understanding of what it means to be an elite athlete.

Financially we've been a basket case since the 70s and its only now that our finances have improved that we have elite facilities and a competitive footy dept spend. I am confident for instance that Misson will have bridged the fitness gap that he inherited by Round 1 of 2013. As he said in the interview on the club site we are doing more running in season than the Saints last year because we are still building our fitness whilst they were at the elite level and were just maintaining the level. This will obviously impact on our perfomance in games this year but it will build the players base for the 2013 pre season.

[Guest José Mourinho]

With respect, Jose, you're a blue sky junkie. Under another guise last year you wouldn't hear a bad word about Bailey, when in reality, he wasn't the right man to take this club forward.

I completely understand some Melbourne supporters angst at what has been going on at the club. When one considers that Leoncelli wasn't replaced; the club losing its way when Stynes became ill; the club once again having to revert to Lyon to help orchestrate a coach; the club being stone motherless last while a club we all thought we were ahead of is showing real signs of improvement; the failure to develop a plethora of draft picks, including a handful of top 5 picks; and the embarrassing handling of our current CEO it's little wonder that many feel you need the patience of Jobe to keep getting hit in the solar plexus by this club.

Make no mistake, this up-coming draft is astonishingly important. Despite some supporters view that we can't recruit properly, it's a must that we make the most of our strong hand. I genuinely believe that our medium term outlook hinges on it. And if we do recruit well we can turn things around relatively quickly. Richmond notoriously stuffed up draft after draft, but even they have got quality players with Deledio, Cotchin, Riewoldt and Martin because they were constantly at the well. Hawthorn have stuffed up plenty of drafts. Think of Dowler, Muston, and Thorpe, but they too got a few right. Stars are what makes teams become successful - plus a good defensive game-plan that we're learning. We have a chance to get a couple of stars into our club. Clearly there's no guarantee, but we must be a decent chance considering the picks that will be at our disposal. Which leads me to Viney ?

I'm not quite the blue sky junkie, but I'll place my faith in the club - again - to make the right decisions with regards to our recruiting set-up, but I can completely undertsand the concerns of some others. I really like Todd Viney and reckon he's a switched on footy person. I doubt he'd accept the role if he thought he'd compromise the club he loves. But it's critical they make the right choices. As stated, we could really change the fortunes of this club. And just because some of you have heard that comment before with regards to other drafts doesn't invalidate this next opportunity. We just have to nail it.

You've got me pegged, then.

I had far too much faith in Bailey, and the club.

I'm more critical now, but I'm content in that we've got the coach I wanted, the mentor I wanted, and I'm seeing the results I wanted.

Make no mistake, this is where I wanted to be after 186.

Maybe a few more wins would be nice, but they are an end result born of the processes and structures we are currently working on.

I don't see the future as bleak as some, but I do agree at the importance of the next draft, in spite of what I said in an earlier post.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Thats Optimistic. I'd have thought "ROCK BOTTOM" would have to include losing to GWS and GC...

Ssshhh.

[rjay 23,922]

My view is that I don't think any recruiting head is going to be up on the minutiae of any state or league. They are there to collate information, look at tapes, do interviews and such, they are not the boots on the ground, they are the eyes and brain that help to make the final judgement, and I am struggling to see why Todd Viney is such a disaster in this role.

Grabbing Rendell for the next 6 months will certainly help things but I just don't see the massive disconnect that others see on this. Do some people have the notion that Prendergast was up there with tapes he made himself? With trips he went alone on?

It's a management role, an important one, but one that Todd Viney can step across into in my opinion.

Probably not, but an experienced one will have a good feel of what is going on built up over a number of years. He will know of all the players in the system and some and whilst I respect your opinion in regard to Todd it is this that I think we will miss out on. Let's get Rendall, even in the short term, it is a critical draft and we need to have as much going our way as we can.

[Grimes Times 1,278]

I don't have faith in him because as you say he ahs no experience as a recruiter and has been given another "job for the boys". If you reckon he can do the job that's your prerogative but I would rather see someone who has made a career out of it instead of someone who has been thrown in there as a stop-gap.

How much experience did SOS have when he was appointed head recruiter for GWS and had 10 of the first 13 picks. He seems to have done alright.

[Sir Why You Little 34,493]

You've got me pegged, then.

I had far too much faith in Bailey, and the club.

I'm more critical now, but I'm content in that we've got the coach I wanted, the mentor I wanted, and I'm seeing the results I wanted.

Make no mistake, this is where I wanted to be after 186.

Maybe a few more wins would be nice, but they are an end result born of the processes and structures we are currently working on.

I don't see the future as bleak as some, but I do agree at the importance of the next draft, in spite of what I said in an earlier post.

Now you are talking more sense Jose, nobody wants to put the boot into the club, but it is fair game to ask serious questions given the results this season.

I have no probs at all with Neeld and co. but i think we should all be asking what the hell went on in 2010-11 so that our list got to this sorry state, which is far below AFL standard.

[rjay 23,922]

How much experience did SOS have when he was appointed head recruiter for GWS and had 10 of the first 13 picks. He seems to have done alright.

He had a bloke called Gubby Allen helping him and the resources of the AFL.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Another cracking article by John Ralph!

http://www.heraldsun...f-1226373066202

Melbourne seems destined to lure Collingwood recruiter Jason Taylor, second in charge under highly rated Derek Hine, after trying to secure him this year.

...

General manager of player personnel and strategy Todd Viney is the acting recruiting boss, with the Pies resigned to losing Taylor to Melbourne.

He is out of contract at season's end, but a timeline for his departure remains unclear.

If he was named Melbourne's head of recruiting, Collingwood would not stand in his way by holding him to his job for the entire season.

I thought that's what we're trying to do?

Ralph also once again shows he has the journalistic integrity of a 3 day old piece of toast, when he offers this account of the Rendell saga:

They are unconcerned about his sacking from Adelaide, after he said he would only recruit indigenous players with one white parent.

Clear, concise and most definitely incorrect.

Edited May 29, 2012 by José Mourinho

[rpfc 27,476]

This is from The Age.

"Collingwood, whose national recruiting manager Hine is among the most admired among the AFL clubs, has been looking to beef up its recruiting team since Taylor attempted to walk out on his contract and join Melbourne at the start of this year.

The Demons received an assurance from Taylor he would join the club but Collingwood had held the assistant recruiter to his contract, which ends later this year."

That would be a better account of what happened.

I don't even understnad what Ralph is talking about when he talks about being 'named head of recruiting and the Pies will let him go' - they had a hissy fit and held him to his contract.

I hope they do get Rendell, and Taylor tells them that they have changed his role and he can leave straight away.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,415]

Will be interesting to see when Taylor's contract finishes. Am I right in thinking most AFL contracts expire October 31 or is that just players? As the draft isn't until November we could still use him on draft day if that were the case.

[old dee 22,854]

Will be interesting to see when Taylor's contract finishes. Am I right in thinking most AFL contracts expire October 31 or is that just players? As the draft isn't until November we could still use him on draft day if that were the case.

I would expect Dr. that with recruiting people contracts would expire at the end of the year i.e. after draft day.

But saying what you "expect" can often make you look silly.

So Taylor, Collingwood and the MFC would be the only ones who know and all of them are saying nothing.