Message from the President...

[Sir Why You Little 37,302]

Except that so far all Neeld seems to have done is further plunge us into the depth of despair.

Our players act defeated before the first bounce. Kids who showed promise last year have regressed so far back into their shells, it's frightening.

Nobody is doing anything positive on the field, not even the players we know are talented and tough and promising.

So yes it is absolutely Neeld's job and I do not envy him, but I also don't think he's gone about it the right way. From the outside looking in, it seems like the players are either not buying what he's selling, or too shell shocked to process the message.

The deadwood is still in the way....to some degree his hands are tied

[Real Demon 232]

Some are not buying what he's selling. Others are. I think it's there in plain view for all to see who they are.

We must back Neeld to the hilt to follow through on this process because at the moment he is waging nothing less than a battle for the heart of a footy club.

It's going to get worse before it gets better as he goes about cutting out this cancer.

Couldn't agree more RR, it's abundantly clear those who have the desire to work the way Neeld wants, and those that don't.

Time for a few of these blokes to put their big boy pants on, and have a crack, or hit the road.............the party is over fellas!!!

[deanox 10,045]

True, but where does the collateral damage stop?

What if Frawley and Jones want out too?

What if Trengove, Howe, Watts and Blease are sick of playing for a bottom feeding team?

What if Clark thinks "well I got my millions and nobody else seems to give a sh*t, so why bother"?

You can't throw the baby out with the bath water.

There are ways of going about it, and for years now, we've gone about it in the least dignified way.

What can we do jaded? This runs so deep through two coaching tenures at least, maybe longer, that it isn't just a trim bit a slashing. We don't have anyone able to fill the void. A team of mangers would go a long way to helping us set the standard. We will never get there until the young talent which embraces the new culture is at the top of the list, so "how long" depends on how deep we have to

My only solution is a strong coaching panel (done) and heavy recruitment. That may mean buying players like Mitch Clark, but it also will mean recruiting 25-30 year olds from other clubs and vfl with the knowledge that they are there only to install a culture, not to win a flag.

Edited May 21, 2012 by deanox

[McQueen 17,867]

Fan, I understand your point here about why the players may be performing like this now, but that doesn't excuse the last 10-15 years. In all that time we have always had players who seem to be front runners, who only run one direction, who lay on the ground looking for free kicks instead of getting up and chasing. Essendon in 2000 didn't do this. Brisbane the next three years didn't do this. We have had a player culture at our club for far too long which was never going to make us successful. Talent doesn't get you there, hardwork and committment does.

This is why ALL the senior players (bar Junior) were moved on. All thought they were better than they were, and while they may have been great servants of the club, that doesn't mean they were going to be the players to lead us forward.The fact that none of our players had further careers at other clubs speaks volumes for the fact that we made the right call. Junior was a mistake, and I believe that decision was based on the clubs opinion of his body coping with another season, not to do with other factors. Stirling Mortlock's presence at the Melbourne Rebels this year has been an example of why Junior should have been retained.

When Hawthorn hit rock bottom, who did they turn to to lead them? Richie Vandenberg, a no frills, but uncompromising player. He wasn't their best player, or their flashiest, but he set an example, he worked hard, and he did the right things. I completely agree with your point about the players being human, and feel sorry for them. I love watching them, and I've shared in their highs and lows all my life, but can anyone really point out a player who was moved on too early, other than Junior?

There has been a lot of hate for the coaches and love for the players lately, and that really surprises me. I've made the following observations, and these are what tells me that the problem is with the players. I may have missed some obvious things, so happy to discuss if anyone has any observations other than "we've gone backwards" because that is clearly for other reasons.

- Whenever we get smashed (pretty much every loss) the players with the worst stats are normally a bunch of senior players. Check out Davey, Green, Jamar, Sylvia this week. Even Moloney was down on his usual output. These players are rarely seen to work hard in games we aren't winning. Ablett, Hodge, Hayes, Ball, etc still play well when their sides lose. Our 'senior' players lie down.

- We have a virtually whole new footy deptartment this year. The new coaches had 3 months to watch the players and work out who they thought were the leaders. They chose to disregard almost all of the existing 'leaders'. Clark, a newbie to the club, was judged a leader. Jones was the only player retained in that group. No one could dispute the onfield leadership shown by these two this year, but I would argue that Green, Davey, Moloney and Jamar haven't shown any. And they didn't show much most of last year either did they?

- The new conditioning staff (Misson and Craig) have repeatedly stated how poor our fitness levels were. We were doing half of the other clubs conditioning. Even this season we couldn't do a full load pre-season. This shows on the field. Time may prove Neeld to be a poor choice for head coach, but you cannot convince me that between Neeld (Collingwood), Misson (St Kilda and Sydney) and Craig (Adelaide) time at successful clubs, the three of them could be the problem? All were highly rated at successful clubs. If one wasn't good enough, I could believe it, but to suggest that the coaching panel is all wrong and that the players are write is preposterous.

- How hard is the game plan? OK, I know it is different. I undersatand there will be mistakes. I also understand it is the job of the coaches to teach. But our players seem unable to run with their man and cut off the option. We are loose and lazy. We don't work hard enough. You can only carry so many players, and at the moment we are carrying ALL of the senior players.

The current coaching panel has been put in place to turn around the culture of the club. For those young enough and willing enough, they can all be part of the next tilt, but if you aren't up to it you'll find yourself out of there. Remember, Cameron Bruce was one of our fittest, and one of our best trainers, and he looked average at Hawthorn. Every player that has left for another club has talked about how professional they are etc.compared to Melbourne. If we don't have the senior players to lead the change, like they did at Hawthorn and Geelong, then we need the coaches to lead the way.

McLardy's statement didn't seem like much, and Presidents often backflip, but I feel his move was to quell the rumours of coach sacking. He backed the FD and hung the responsibility on the players. If the players don't want to perform, they will be out of there at seasons end. The group that wants it (see the leadership group) will stay and make it happen.

Edit: spelling

Fantastic post, Deanox. Thanks for taking the time to type this up.

My concern is the culture issue. With these senior players remaining in the team and dishing up below par performances week in - week out, surely that will fester and remain a toxic, uncomfortable relationship with not only the coaches, but the current leadership group as well.

It will be a great test of the young leaders to manage this year and attempt to change the attitude of these older players to improve their contribution to the team.

[Pipefitter 2,213]

Watched the interview. Answered like a politician, meaning no answers.

Although its too early to judge Neeld it would be easy to assume we chose the wrong guy again. We can't recruit the right players to save our lives, how would recruiting a coach be any different?

Let's be frank, the only reason this club still exists Is the incredible power of an incredible man named Jim to make people buy in and contribute. Whether this correlates to appointing a board and and a football department to bring the onfield performance back to an acceptable level remains to be seen.

If the afl were to walk in and appoint a board and footy department to this I wouldn't object because it's obvious as a stand alone entity we have absolutely no idea.

[Retrospective 104]

McLardy pulled up short of offering unequivocal board support for Mark Neeld..... so following normal AFL procedure he should be safe in the role for a while yet.

[Adam The God 30,603]

OTC tonight, when asked about interviewing potential coaching candidates other than Neeld (specifically including Sanderson), the MFC President did not give any names and said only candidates who were ‘credible’ in MFC’s view were interviewed. What an interesting response!

As I've said before, they thought their man was Ross Lyon. He did a runner behind his manager's back and we hired the next best - Neeld. I don't blame the board for this. They've done a fantastic job, in general.

[bing181 9,421]

As I've said before, they thought their man was Ross Lyon. He did a runner behind his manager's back and we hired the next best - Neeld. I don't blame the board for this. They've done a fantastic job, in general.

Interesting article in the Age by Caro Wilson (the real one this time) re all this. Not sure what to make of it - my reading of news from Adelaide at the time was that they really wanted Neeld, but we got in first. Certainly that was the vibe on the Adelaide boards. Not to add, everyone had been calling out for us to get a "hard" coach after Bailey, and Neeld is at the very least all of that.

Agree with your post.

[Adam The God 30,603]

Sure, McDonald was a decision we'd probably take back in hindsight, but it wasn't a horrendous one at the time IMO. He could just as easily have been completely done, so the Club probably made a decent decision based on what they knew about his fitness.

Yeah, agree with this. He was out for six weeks with a hammy after the Carlton game. I thought he was on his last legs. I don't know the inner workings of the situation, but perhaps his sacking could have been dealt with more respect?

[Rogue 585]

He was out for six weeks with a hammy

Exactly what I was thinking.

[deanox 10,045]

It was actually a calf, and original reports diagnosed or as a grade one strain, 1-2 weeks (from memory). When it took more than 6 weeks to get back on the park from such a minor injury I think he was gone them.

[deanox 10,045]

Additional thoughts from my last post RE what to do, couldn't get this all out last night:

Assuming we have 3 first round picks:

Select Jack Viney as low as we can, first or second round.

Aggressively chase a good young mid, around the 25 age max i.e. Dangerfield. That means offer stupid money (which we have) and then offer the crows 2 first rounds and a player (if we get Viney for a 2nd round) or a 1st, a 2nd and a player. (IMO Jamar has the most currency of all the player on our list, but unsure if we can trade him. We have the cap room, if Jamar wants money I'm sure we can offer to pay the first $400k of his salary at the crows, giving him more money than he'd get elsewhere! I doubt anyone else from our list would be wanted.) If he doesn't agree to a trade, let him walk as a free agent, but push his price up like we did for Scully. He has been AA ruck recently, we will probably get a 2nd rounder for him, and I'd be happy with Viney and 2 early second rounders if we had to trade two first rounders for a star.

3rd round picks and later should be used to get at least 4 mature bodies, known hard trainers, developed leaders. If these players are not AFL standard that is fine, as long as they bust their gut to get the best out of themselves. Aged 25-30, these players are required to to help develop the youth.

This will give us Viney, a quality mid, another reasonably top selection in this years draft, and 4 mature hard players. If it only takes a handful of players to cause the rot, we only need a handful of players to turn it around. Add Jones, Magner and Clark to the mix of people who put in and suddenly we have nearly 10 setting the example rather than 3 or 4.

[deanox 10,045]

Fantastic post, Deanox. Thanks for taking the time to type this up.

My concern is the culture issue. With these senior players remaining in the team and dishing up below par performances week in - week out, surely that will fester and remain a toxic, uncomfortable relationship with not only the coaches, but the current leadership group as well.

It will be a great test of the young leaders to manage this year and attempt to change the attitude of these older players to improve their contribution to the team.

It is hard. As Jaded said, you don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. I think we have ben pruning and pruning for 5 years, trying to cut the head off, but unfortauntely, as the old 'leaders' were removed, those that were left leading by default had only ever had the poor role models. McLean didn't lead when he could have stepped up. Green and Bruce were too much like the Yze and Robbo's of old. Sylvia hasn't even demonstrated he actually wants to play footy - he sure doesn't undertand the levels he needs to apply himself to be the best he can (see G. Ablett or even Stevie J).

We thought we had some dead wood, but it turns out we were almost rotten to the core. Some people have talked of a 'divide' amongst the playing group, which they claim is evident on the field. I haven't witnessed that, but I have seen players who don't work for each other. Unfortauntely you can't just cull 15 people in one season. At the end of this year anothrt 4-6 will go. Jamar and moloney may move with FA. Green and Davey are close to gone. There is a large part of the problem, there isn't much left underneath that. Joel MacDonald may be safe; he isn't the best player, but I believe he applies himself. After that you have Rivers and Sylvia, and then no one else on our list turns 26 until November (Stef Martin)! And everyone else is under 26 until next May!

That's right, we currently have 7 players over 26 on our list, and 9 players over 25 (And Dunn is one of them, he turned 25 last week).

We only have 11 players born in '87 or earlier,

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/players/tabid/7501/category/senior/season/2012/default.aspx you can sort by DOB.

[Cherrybaby 9]

Looks like Roos and Sheahan liked my question Daisy and McLardy's response was damning. Not his fault, he just didn't want to tell the truth.

IMO the club has handled the older players so poorly it's no surprise they haven't "bought in". The organization has ostracised the older players and particularly last years leadership group. We all know they had limitations but under Bailey they did as well as their ability allowed and the playing group were united and commited. When McLardy and Stynes interviewed the leadership group leading into the Geelong match the leaders spilled their guts on Schwab, Connolly and one or two others. They supported Bailey. McLardy listened, thanked them and acted. Schwab would not be extendedand Bailey was likely to be. This all changed post 186 and Bailey and a few others who were in the Bailey camp were dumped and in Bailey's case in the worst of ways. The playing group and leadership group in particular felt responsible.

The players are not "politically savvy". They thought they were doing the right thing. But they have, almost to a man, been dumped and humiliated by the current football department. Their loyalty to the club has counted for nothing. No wonder Moloney, Green, Davey and to a lesser extent Rivers are shadows today and their older mates like Jamar and Sylvia impacted as well.

You reap what you sow. The FD lost the respect of those players and I can understand why. MFC have a history of treating its older players very poorly. And please don't come back with "but they're professionals". They are humans with all the feelings and reactions that go with it. They've been told they're not wanted. What did you expect?

I agree with what you're saying but at the end of the day they are paid to do a job and do it properly. Losing by 186 points is unbelievable! They humiliated themselves, the MFC, its supporters and scribbled us into history for all the wrong reasons. If they don't want to play for us, then they can elect to be traded or leave. Gosh, they have enough money at their age! No more excuses. The only person they got it wrong was with Junior. That was their biggest mistake. He was a good leader.

[Hardnut 327]

As I've said before, they thought their man was Ross Lyon. He did a runner behind his manager's back and we hired the next best - Neeld. I don't blame the board for this. They've done a fantastic job, in general.

Read Caro's article in this morning's Age very carefully - it covers a lot of ground!

[rjay 25,302]

mmm....McLardy told The Age: ''It is just rubbish that Mark has lost the players or that there is any manner of unrest. Every player I've spoken to - and I've spoken to plenty of them - has no thought of that.''

and I'm sure all the players have complete trust in you Don after the senior players were shafted last year.

[Nasher 33,617]

mmm....McLardy told The Age: ''It is just rubbish that Mark has lost the players or that there is any manner of unrest. Every player I've spoken to - and I've spoken to plenty of them - has no thought of that.''

and I'm sure all the players have complete trust in you Don after the senior players were shafted last year.

.

Indeed. Stay away from the damn players, Don. If you want to know the mood of the players, do it through the appropriate proxy like Craig or Schwab. If the players don't trust Schwab either then show him the door. I fear we're going to end up with "we listened to the wrong people" all over again.

[Hells Gates 505]

mmm....McLardy told The Age: ''It is just rubbish that Mark has lost the players or that there is any manner of unrest. Every player I've spoken to - and I've spoken to plenty of them - has no thought of that.''

and I'm sure all the players have complete trust in you Don after the senior players were shafted last year.

What a load of rubbish Don. I know for a fact Mark has lost quite a few players, and it's not just the senior players. Get your head out of the clouds, stop denying & hiding what's going on and fix the friggin problem, if you can't then you and Cam should step down and give someone the jobs that will have a crack.

[Guest Jackie]

On further reflection after last night I am now convinced DM and the board are just a bunch of puppets. The club is spiraling into a black hole named Cameron Schwab.

[wmth 69]

My 2c: http://www.backpagelead.com.au/afl/6503-melbourne-fc-coach-under-pressure-afl

This sort of behaviour from players would happen at no other club. The culture is apalling. Do we have to find another coach that puts everything the way the players like it?

I would imagine Norm Smith would've lost a few of these players. They drop off too easily, because somehow its easy for them.

[Geddy Lee 582]

Soooo, how's the Andrews Report going?

The final page of that 1000+ page report was probably a big sad face.

[Guest Jackie]

Soooo, how's the Andrews Report going?

The final page of that 1000+ page report was probably a big sad face.

Who has this report? Will it ever see the ligth of day? I wish someone would leak out a copy.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Miller and Bruce also come to mind. I can't recall junior saying anything, but I feel I recall woewodin saying something back then as well.

Maybe more accurate to say "a lot of". Judd didn't say it, I can't remember ball saying it, can anyone provide multiple examples off players from another club saying it?

I only ask because I am surprised I never heard more of it, especially with someone like Buckley going to Collingwood.

[rpfc 28,902]

True, but where does the collateral damage stop?

What if Frawley and Jones want out too?

What if Trengove, Howe, Watts and Blease are sick of playing for a bottom feeding team?

What if Clark thinks "well I got my millions and nobody else seems to give a sh*t, so why bother"?

You can't throw the baby out with the bath water.

There are ways of going about it, and for years now, we've gone about it in the least dignified way.

FCS Jaded, we didn't fire them or publicly humiliate them - we moved them from leadership positions they failed miserably in.

And of course, no-one wants to play for a loser but you have to have faith that most Demons can see the money we have pumped into the FD and the responsibility that we have given to the next generation and realise that the future is rosier than the past.

In terms of 'dignity' with decision making - is there ever a good way to tell senior players their time is up when they don't think it is? Is there an easy way to remove a failing coach the players adore? Is there a dignified way to remove the captain and the LG?

We have made some hard decisions in the last 10 months and our predicament is far from proof they have been poor decisions.

Immediate term they look disastrous, but I want to see whether this time will be the making of the club.

We all judged Hawthorn as thugs when Brereton pointed out a line he saw in the MCG sandpit, but along with a hardworking captain and a clean out of underperforming senior players, it instilled in a young team a tougher mind and resolve that helped them turn their fortunes around.

This club requires a cultural reconstruction and if this time gives us a hard and uncompromising edge then so be it.

[Sir Why You Little 37,302]

FCS Jaded, we didn't fire them or publicly humiliate them - we moved them from leadership positions they failed miserably in.

And of course, no-one wants to play for a loser but you have to have faith that most Demons can see the money we have pumped into the FD and the responsibility that we have given to the next generation and realise that the future is rosier than the past.

In terms of 'dignity' with decision making - is there ever a good way to tell senior players their time is up when they don't think it is? Is there an easy way to remove a failing coach the players adore? Is there a dignified way to remove the captain and the LG?

We have made some hard decisions in the last 10 months and our predicament is far from proof they have been poor decisions.

Immediate term they look disastrous, but I want to see whether this time will be the making of the club.

We all judged Hawthorn as thugs when Brereton pointed out a line he saw in the MCG sandpit, but along with a hardworking captain and a clean out of underperforming senior players, it instilled in a young team a tougher mind and resolve that helped them turn their fortunes around.

This club requires a cultural reconstruction and if this time gives us a hard and uncompromising edge then so be it.

I agree with most of this rpfc...But are we creating this cultural change the right way?

Hawthorn had leaders at the club on many levels....we don't, Yet another fault of this old thinking Football Club

4-5 decades of neglect cannot be sorted out overnight, & going too hard too quickly which i think has happened, could be disaster.

Hearing the President interviewed this morning did not swell me full of confidence either

All i heard was a man in denial....Don there are big problems...We know, You know Let's be honest and face them all.

Don just sounded like it was business as usual.

The Dark Cloud has not lifted yet, regardless of what our CEO said late last year....Stormy weather is forecast.