Thursday May 17th - Jurrah-dgment Day

[Bossdog 2,002]

Also heard the defence has put forward that identity(Which is the 1st point of proofof any offence) would be debated......Whisper is that LJ was in a seperate room with kids when incident happened.......With the civil war going on there at the moment....and LJ being a high profile person within that community.......would he not be the perfect person to hang these offences on????? ....Just asking...

[loges 6,767]

rubbish

What about the rapists at the saints? Or when didack was hanging around with drive by shooting crims?

innocent until proven guilty

Very true Krakour able to resume his career no problems. Scotland able to keep playing hardly attracted any press at all

[Guest strawberry_gumdrops]

If Jurrah gets off through the traditional court system, can he still face judgement from his community? How long does it take to recover from a spear in the leg? Is it all the way through or just a swift jab?

[Bossdog 2,002]

The difference there was that some of Lovett's team mates were indirectly affected and believed him to be guilty. His position there was untenable after that. That's why Milne wasn't even the boot even though the circumstances were similar.

While I agree that it was untenable.....By what right do the players have to cause him to be sacked prior to a court hearing when he is cleared of any wrong doings....Mob rules....

[The Big Ticket 94]

Their leadership group obviously had a strong input on that decision.

[Bossdog 2,002]

If Jurrah gets off through the traditional court system, can he still face judgement from his community? How long does it take to recover from a spear in the leg? Is it all the way through or just a swift jab?

What ever the ruling by the white mans courts....This will never be resolved until 'payback' occurs.....I think that the NT government has outlawed 'payback' and this is where the two world collide.....

[hardtack 10,547]

An item on tribal and white man's law: http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/law/tribal-punishment-customary-law-payback.html

[rpfc 28,502]

I am Bill Maher-like when it comes to stupid customs - whether cultural, religious, or political.

'Payback' is the stupidest aspect of Aboriginal culture I have read about.

Just self-defeating, pointless, and because it is about violence - never ending.

Some people from these communities need to grow up and demand that 'enough is enough.'

[Bossdog 2,002]

I am Bill Maher-like when it comes to stupid customs - whether cultural, religious, or political.

'Payback' is the stupidest aspect of Aboriginal culture I have read about.

Just self-defeating, pointless, and because it is about violence - never ending.

Some people from these communities need to grow up and demand that 'enough is enough.'

Mate I agree with you in some respects....It is very hard to give up rites and behaviours that have gone on for 40,000 years.....Have you seen how these people live???......What their chances are for living a decent and full life that we all have been given???.....I went to Wales not long ago and they still hate the English with a passion and the further North you get there is open hostility when they think your English (have to explain you are Australian) and then their attitude changes.....Would you give up the way you live with your coloured TV ,computer,choise of where to live......and have your culture changed....Wars have been fought over these issues.....I don't think you saying that is self defeating and pointless unless you can live in their enviorment.....Not having a go but there is violence everywhere today....

[bing181 9,243]

My god, some ordinary posts around. No-one here ever made a mistake?

It's a complex situation, legally and culturally, about which we have very little factual information or experience.

FWIW, the club has my support in the decisions it has taken so far.

[daisycutter 29,616]

Schwabby talking to Mitchell on 3AW this morning said Liam had told them the whole story and the club is convinced he told the truth, is innocent and has the club's support

Edit: P.S. he was punished for alcohol use whilst in rehab by being forced to train alone for a period

Edited May 18, 2012 by daisycutter

[rpfc 28,502]

Mate I agree with you in some respects....It is very hard to give up rites and behaviours that have gone on for 40,000 years.....Have you seen how these people live???......What their chances are for living a decent and full life that we all have been given???.....I went to Wales not long ago and they still hate the English with a passion and the further North you get there is open hostility when they think your English (have to explain you are Australian) and then their attitude changes.....Would you give up the way you live with your coloured TV ,computer,choise of where to live......and have your culture changed....Wars have been fought over these issues.....I don't think you saying that is self defeating and pointless unless you can live in their enviorment.....Not having a go but there is violence everywhere today....

I understand that I can't comprehend - but that doesn't mean it is a practice borne out of rational and proper thought.

It is absurd, and I don't say this as a person coming from a perfect society, I say this as a sympathetic person that knows if any community can ill afford inane rituals like this - it is remote indigenous communities.

[rpfc 28,502]

Schwabby talking to Mitchell on 3AW this morning said Liam had told them the whole story and the club is convinced he told the truth, is innocent and has the club's support

I believe in Liam...

[Jaded No More 68,965]

I believe in Liam...

And unlike Scully, Jurrah is worth believing in.

[daisycutter 29,616]

I understand that I can't comprehend - but that doesn't mean it is a practice borne out of rational and proper thought.

It is absurd, and I don't say this as a person coming from a perfect society, I say this as a sympathetic person that knows if any community can ill afford inane rituals like this - it is remote indigenous communities.

And what is "rational" and "proper" thought when you are talking of a totally different culture

These are, as you know rpfc, just words that only have meaning within a certain context which is certainly not that of the remote tribal aboriginal

I suppose you would describe the DreamTime as irrational and improper

[Guest Jackie]

I believe in Liam...

Now you done it. He is well and trully F$@&*%.

[rpfc 28,502]

And what is "rational" and "proper" thought when you are talking of a totally different culture

These are, as you know rpfc, just words that only have meaning within a certain context which is certainly not that of the remote tribal aboriginal

I suppose you would describe the DreamTime as irrational and improper

Belief is one thing, DC.

Vengeance and draconian punishment quite another.

All cultures deal with that, I am not about to put my own culture on a pedestal when it comes to rational and proper behaviour.

I think it is demeaning to a culture when people trot out the "it's different over there" line. We all have our base urges and we all have agreed - a societal contract if you will - to collectively attempt to be better than those urges.

[Bossdog 2,002]

I understand that I can't comprehend - but that doesn't mean it is a practice borne out of rational and proper thought.

It is absurd, and I don't say this as a person coming from a perfect society, I say this as a sympathetic person that knows if any community can ill afford inane rituals like this - it is remote indigenous communities.

Try saying that in Afganistan....Iran....Iraq......Sth Africa.....Sth America...Sudan....

[Guest gidon]

I understand that I can't comprehend - but that doesn't mean it is a practice borne out of rational and proper thought.

It is absurd, and I don't say this as a person coming from a perfect society, I say this as a sympathetic person that knows if any community can ill afford inane rituals like this - it is remote indigenous communities.

What does this say about the biggest, strongest and most advanced country/people in the world when they use Capital Punishment as an eye for an eye. Their leader is black too, but he didnt enforce a more brutal ritural than our own less respected indigenous cultures that are the oldest in the world.

Remember the aboriganal communities of Australia used capitalist system before the rest of the world invented capitalism. Who would have thought using a market to exchange goods was a good idea?

[rpfc 28,502]

Now you done it. He is well and trully F$@&*%.

More than happy to poke fun at myself, Jackie.

Someone has got to bring me down a notch or two...

[rpfc 28,502]

Try saying that in Afganistan....Iran....Iraq......Sth Africa.....Sth America...Sudan....

What does this say about the biggest, strongest and most advanced country/people in the world when they use Capital Punishment as an eye for an eye. Their leader is black too, but he didnt enforce a more brutal ritural than our own less respected indigenous cultures that are the oldest in the world.

Ok, you're falling back into rehearsed argument - read what I am saying.

I am saying I am not in a position to comprehend what is going on.

I am saying that the mores of any culture are essentially the same.

I am saying that remote indigenous communities have enough problems without allowing a self-inflicted wound like 'Payback' define themselves and their future.

There is no black-and-white argument here - only that this is a complicated ordeal that is self-defeating and that these communities need to move on from their need for draconian justice or they will jeopardise their future.

rpfc dumbed down:

Don't know what your issue is, but I like you - get yourself sorted.

[daisycutter 29,616]

Belief is one thing, DC.

Vengeance and draconian punishment quite another.

All cultures deal with that, I am not about to put my own culture on a pedestal when it comes to rational and proper behaviour.

I think it is demeaning to a culture when people trot out the "it's different over there" line. We all have our base urges and we all have agreed - a societal contract if you will - to collectively attempt to be better than those urges.

of course from "our" perspective we probably agree on what is "rational", "proper", "moral" etc

but that is within the society we choose to live within and believe in

I was just objecting to your describing someone else's society as "irrational", "improper" and "absurd" when they live in a different belief system

It's also not true of you to say that "payback" perpetuates violence. In fact it is (or was) generally the opposite as it puts an end to it.

what you are seeing with violence being perpetuated is that "payback" law is not being respected or concluded and is being "adulterated" with "white fella" law, leading to this all round unsatisfying situation.

Of course all this is further complicated because remote communities don't really live in a fully traditional lifestyle and are stuck with a foot somewhat in both camps, with all the resultant tension, dislocation and discordance.

I'm not advocating "payback" law. I don't have any easy fixes, but I just thought it disingenuous of you to describe it in the terms you did

clear as mud?

[Guest gidon]

The point being rpfc is that the issues in remote areas of indigenous are comparable to the issues in world powers like the USA. Death by lethal injection or spear to the leg. I know what i would choose

[Bossdog 2,002]

Mate not try to pick a fight here but do you realise how.... White...Eliteist and arrogant your arguement sounds

[nutbean 8,838]

is it wrong to reject "eye for an eye" retribution in any shape or form in any culture, race or creed. Does the rejection of corporal or capital punishment make one white and elitist ?