Maybe we are tanking again? Finish 2nd last, activate scully picks, and bingo! Picks 2,3,4.

How do we magically get the 4th pick??

Why not finish last and pick up 1 2 3?

don't forget the 5 years of development after that, and the thousands of posts about 'have patience, he is a KPP who will take some time'

Why not finish last and pick up 1 2 3?

Considering that GWS are going to be more than likely threatening our 186 deficit on more than one occasion this year (starting this Saturday), the only tanking that would get us to last position would be if we simply didn't turn up on game day (physically... not mentally as we have done so often in the past).

Considering that GWS are going to be more than likely threatening our 186 deficit on more than one occasion this year (starting this Saturday), the only tanking that would get us to last position would be if we simply didn't turn up on game day (physically... not mentally as we have done so often in the past).

Correct. Quit this Tanking talk please. It makes me feel ill. Charity will not help us. Hard work with the right application.

We got burnt once already.

Why not finish last and pick up 1 2 3?

It doeasn't work like that 'Chook'.

For a start IF we finished last we would only get pick 1 & then 2 after it, + with Big questions asked of Us. The other pick would be taken after the teams that Miss the finals + any compensatory 1st Rnd Pick from GWS.

So likely hypothetical, Picks 1 + 2 + 11/12...

But in my opinion, you only do that stuff when your List is obliterated & need to repair it Quick smart. IMO, we are Not in that position Now..

* I think GWS will do that very thing though...

So, I wouldn't mind getting say Picks 6 & 7,,, & hold the Mid 1st Rnd pick for 2013 or 2014...Or a Trade Tool...

# trade: IMO it looks like the Crows are sweetening up to Dangerfield to stay, and Gaff sounds like he'll stay there as well, sadly. But there may still be hope for a Boak? or someone North.

IMO the preseason has been disappointing and if we don’t beat Brisbane without Brown the alarm bells will be ringing.

I don’t believe Neeld’s ‘kick it long down the line’ game plan is the most effective method to beat the press. IMO the best method is the one Clarkson is adopting. Play on immediately upon gaining possession if you have the chance. Otherwise, if forced into a slow play, use short kicks to maintain possession and avoid getting too close to the boundary. The reason for avoiding the boundary is that it makes the press more effective and limits your options to kicking long down the line. (So you need to win three one on one contests to kick a goal.) One thing Neeld is right about is the importance of getting some size and grunt into the midfield.

Hawthorns short game only works with elite kicks they have and is yet to stand up against good high pressure football. Let's see how it stands up during the season. More touches, more chance for error a bit like the early Adelaide teams that tried keepings off football and changed when Blight came in.

I think (well I hope) you would be doing Neeld a disservice to think that long down the line is the only plan. He did talk of the overseas experience in team sports of the best teams being able to switch plans mid game if need be, we are not at that level yet.

Hawthorns short game only works with elite kicks they have and is yet to stand up against good high pressure football. Let's see how it stands up during the season. More touches, more chance for error a bit like the early Adelaide teams that tried keepings off football and changed when Blight came in.

I think (well I hope) you would be doing Neeld a disservice to think that long down the line is the only plan. He did talk of the overseas experience in team sports of the best teams being able to switch plans mid game if need be, we are not at that level yet.

Lets learn how to kick a football first I think before we talk about switching gameplans.

IMO the preseason has been disappointing and if we don’t beat Brisbane without Brown the alarm bells will be ringing.

Three points:

The MFC is misguided if it thinks the reason we are where we are is because of player development. We have drafted poorly with our high picks. Going forward, given our limited resources we should be investing more heavily into: 1) paying 100% of the salary cap by frontloading the contracts of our best young players; and 2) boosting our recruiting department. (IMO the most valuable people in football are the best recruiters.) Players make coaches, not the other way around. IMO, given our limited budget, we should cut back on the resources applied to assistant coaching and fitness science and spend the money elsewhere.

I don’t believe Neeld’s ‘kick it long down the line’ game plan is the most effective method to beat the press. IMO the best method is the one Clarkson is adopting. Play on immediately upon gaining possession if you have the chance. Otherwise, if forced into a slow play, use short kicks to maintain possession and avoid getting too close to the boundary. The reason for avoiding the boundary is that it makes the press more effective and limits your options to kicking long down the line. (So you need to win three one on one contests to kick a goal.) One thing Neeld is right about is the importance of getting some size and grunt into the midfield.

Demonlanders (and now the coach it seems) love getting into our senior players undeservedly. It’s not their fault they were drafted to the MFC. Players like Green, Bruce and Davey have never had the ability to be an Ablett, Judd or a Swan. They have each had good careers for us and it is not their fault they haven’t delivered team success. They just haven’t had the support around them (because we have drafted so poorly).

Sorry was this spot the odd one out, please don't forget Swan has a good tank and was a late developer he is not in the class of Judd or Ablett and Jones off our list is a similar player/younger version of Swan

Lets learn how to kick a football first I think before we talk about switching gameplans.

That is exactly what I am saying, maybe didn't express it well enough but "we are not at that level yet", one step at a time.

We might not be able to successfully execute the short kicking game yet, but I would prefer we implemented a game style that is likely to be successful in 2-3 years. Soccer has had over 30 years of trying to navigate past formation defences and it is clear that short possession play is the best method.

Artie Bucco??

Yeh....that's the one Hell

Cheers

That is exactly what I am saying, maybe didn't express it well enough but "we are not at that level yet", one step at a time.

Yeah mate all good, I knew what you were saying. We are a long way off. It's going to be an interesting year.

So likely hypothetical, Picks 1 + 2 + 11/12...

Can't be 11 dee-luded because pick 2 is a compo pick therefore min mid-pick is 12 (assuming no other compo picks for bottom 10)

Can't be 11 dee-luded because pick 2 is a compo pick therefore min mid-pick is 12 (assuming no other compo picks for bottom 10)

I think you are correct DC and if there are other comp picks it will blow out further.

Carlton hasnt won a game yet this pre-season, does this mean they arnt top four material and worse than us? exactly

Shows how much we can take out of the NAB Tiddly Winks

Carlton hasnt won a game yet this pre-season, does this mean they arnt top four material and worse than us? exactly

Shows how much we can take out of the NAB Tiddly Winks

sorry mate, big difference between us and Carlton.

Carlton were a contender last year, had a bad NAB cup = No reason to panic!

We had a pretty bad year last year. had a bad NAB cup = reason for panic!

carlton have proven performers in our list, they would have been hoping for good preseason form to continue their form from last year.

We have alot of young guys and we were hoping to see some good progress from last year - we're seeing a similar thing so far...

Two weeks of this negative, whining and moaning till the season starts is far too much.

We know we are going to have a different year to 2011.

We hope that all the effort to select and employ a new FD PLUS their effort to put the team through a rigorous preseason PLUS a new game plan from one of the architects of Collingwoods winning plan will improve our performances on the field in 2012

We know that in 2012 we will NOT sack our coach, have a weasel undermining team spirit and then leaving the club, and in 2012 we hope we won't have all our older players playing like crap...

So I choose to conclude, against the tide of self-pitying negativity, that 2012 WILL BE BETTER than 2011.

Go Dees.

Can't be 11 dee-luded because pick 2 is a compo pick therefore min mid-pick is 12 (assuming no other compo picks for bottom 10)

Well I've put us down in a Hypothetical way as bottom ladder and taking our compenst' pick, > so 1 + 2, but I didn't count in GWS compenst' pick, so I ended up with pick (11 or 12) 12 or 13... Yep, I made a simple math error.

Thanks DC...

#Edit: I may have googled a 2011 ladder to use as my

Probably had 17 teams on it.

Carlton were a contender last year, had a bad NAB cup = No reason to panic!

We had a pretty bad year last year. had a bad NAB cup = reason for panic!

I dont agree with this at all. Why the NAB Cup doesn't mean [censored] for one club but apparently says a lot about another just doesn't make sense.

No problems little Jim. Best of luck with the solving the problems. Clearly you fail to grasp modern day AFL reality.

No I dont blame ALL of the fans.

I point out some of "loyal fans" that cant even be bothered to turn up to watch the games.

• The same "loyal fans" where we were actually losing money due to our attendance. Did those "loyal fans" sort that one? Oh the truth hurts.
  
• Sure the same "loyal fans" that took years to react and only moved when we where on deaths door.
  
• The same "loyal fans" that spent more time infighting "claiming he did this he said that" - failed to move forward.
  
• The same "loyal fans" that let the very situation happen in the first place - maybe the root of the problem does sit at the feet of the failed merger - I'm not sure on that.
  
• The same "loyal fans" the want success and want others to do the work.
  
• The same "loyal fans" that are ignorant to the very workings of our own football club.
  

But I'm sure you will blame the players, blame the coach, blame blah blah blah - negative garbage.

Our last few years have been sensational and finally we have some "fans" that understand the path to modern day success. Finally we have a CEO that understands our short-comings and solves our attendance $$$$ losing problem by quality upfront negotiations with the MCG.

Many are here among this forum, thats great. Finally we have a board with a quality passion for increasing our investment inside our football department without going into debt. Finally we have a board that understand you need alternative income because you can't really on these some of these "loyal fans" they are short term fickle thinkers.

So little Jim best of luck. Your "loyal fans" will let you down I can promise you that. (Their history tells me that.) Pat your "loyal fans" on the back little Jim the job is only half done.

DR i have put alot of money into this club and you are really starting to sound like a know it all. So if you can fix the problem do it. But i put my money were it counts so dont tell me its my fault and i can tell you i know alot about footy i played along time and been going along time. So if you ever judge someone when you dont no them think again DR. Know it all how much are you to blame. Me and my family have 70 years of funding this club and going every game.

I dont agree with this at all. Why the NAB Cup doesn't mean [censored] for one club but apparently says a lot about another just doesn't make sense.

exactly..... we wont know what really happens until round 5, especially as we are a big chance to beat the Lions regardless of form if we put any sort of play together.

We have a very hard start of the year...... so people will rate our season by round 10 when we have a cruisy run home if we can stick to our guns that far after the start we get, very much North last year who flew home

I liked your post RN , you made some good points

Cheers

Thanks Macca. As you've no doubt already realised, there was no scientific basis for any of the points i put forward lol.

I hear what your saying though re just hitting the track and sweating it out and going hard. No doubt Neeld and the boys will be on top of all the fitness/conditioning side etc. Will be very interesting watching the next few years unfold that’s for sure.

Thanks Macca. As you've no doubt already realised, there was no scientific basis for any of the points i put forward lol.

I hear what your saying though re just hitting the track and sweating it out and going hard. No doubt Neeld and the boys will be on top of all the fitness/conditioning side etc. Will be very interesting watching the next few years unfold that’s for sure.

Yeah , though I think your Motor Racing point was a good example where more money spent can/could equal better performance .

But , I could think of some sporting pursuits and other non sporting pursuits where the less fuss , the better . I reckon if nothing else , we will run out games well . And that should get us a couple more wins .

Cheers